Prog bands influenced by The Beach Boys' SMiLE

ExittheLemming wrote: SteveG wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: SteveG wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: ^ so you retract the description of 1920's barbershop harmonies right? One man's psychedelic barber shop quartet could be another's opera. It's totally subjective, like most things in music. I note you added the psychedelic qualifier to your original post. That explains why Schoenberg is often chided for his formulaic broadway musicals. Although the harmonies deployed by Brain Wilson on something like In My Room and Wonderful are clearly inspired by barbershop quartets and are commensurately and conventionally 'consonant', they certainly differ from the sort of harmonic conventions deployed by barbershop music. Why are 'barbershop harmonies' being inferred as somehow disparaging when the only point being made is that some of the Beach Boys music was progressive and innovative in intent and execution? You can respect the past without being curtailed by it. If someone confuses barbershop music with an opera they clearly wouldn't have the wherewithal to find a beach, a shop or a barber for want of trying....(and thus would let their hair grow long like some sort of clueless hippy) As my wife was experiencing some severe seizures yesterday, I had to leave the forum as soon as I started posting and it ended up being too long a day to address you later on. The points that I would have brought up included that 1) The close harmonies being referred to as  barber shop harmonies were being tarnished in the dicussion by the Hendrix quote and 2) one of my favorite Prog bands Gentile Giant relied heavily on close 5 part harmonies as does the band Spocks Beard today, but to a lesser extent.     I took no offense to your post as you did not know my circumstances and I do not expect people to be psychic. However, your post did hint of musical elitism which does bother me. I consider all musical forms to be valid artistic expressions regarless if they are a barber shop quartet, an Irish jig, a piano concerto or an opera. I apologise if I misunderstood your intent. Your fears are groundless as the hint of musical elitism you have inferred was probably caused by my asking for a comparison to 'barber shop harmonies' in the Beach Boys music be retracted by Toddler. It was expressed clumsily but was sincere and I did clarify that the description 'barber shop harmonies' should not be inferred as pejorative. Cut to the chase, is the champion of air travel compared with sailing ships an elitist? Similarly, your post that a barber shop quartet can easily be confused with an opera is just plain vanilla facile as you are clearly not susceptible to such confusion. (and neither is Dean) Anyways, this is all posturing semantic w.a.n.k. compared to the health of a loved one (musical or otherwise) so I hope your wife is OK and our thoughts are with both of you at this time.

Smile has sections that are Avant-Garde. Another observation is that Brian Wilson was a fan of J.S. Bach, had played his music, began to write his own which was influenced or adapted from the science of Bach , but adding chords often used in Jazz which on guitar would be labeled inverted chords. However an adaption of a Classical composers works is often credited to Progressive Rock music only , when truly this was explored and applied to Motown music in the early 60s and often experimented with by instrumental 60's guitar bands like The Ventures. I strongly believe that The Beatles inspired Wilson to compose a work like Smile. 

TODDLER wrote: I strongly believe that The Beatles inspired Wilson to compose a work like Smile.

Maybe, but not nearly as much as you would think--  sessions for Smile (what was released as Smiley Smile) began in February of 1966.   Sgt. Pepper's sessions began in December of that same year, and both finished just a few months apart in '67.   Granted the Beatles worked quicker and were far better managed, getting Pepper out to the world three and a half months before the Beach Boys wrapped and released the unfinished Smiley Smile, but influences for the music were coming from many sources.   In Brian Wilson's case from guys like Gershwin more than some pop group from Britain.   The two bands may've been competing, quietly prodding each other to push further and be even more creative, but frankly, they didn't need no education.

If you mean you believe the Beatles had a general influence on Brian to make an art album, it's possible but again, in reality, it is unlikely:  each band admired the other but both Wilson and the Fab 4 were very much doing their own thing.   Both were the cutting edge of popular/rock music and had no trouble coming up with their own ideas.   The only tangible influence Wilson could've taken from them was from Revolver, which though a spectacularly innovative and arty record, sounds nothing like Wilson's music and I see no evidence of that sound on the Smile project.

The influence both had on the other was one of innovation, not the music itself.   Further, I'm afraid much more often it was the Beatles who took form the Beach Boys, and not the other way around.





Edited by Atavachron - June 20 2014 at 20:22

^ Yes that works  -

Just following the discussion between honorary collaborator and SteveG. My recollection of those comments attributed to Hendrix were that they were meant to be derogatory (artists are entitled to criticize other artists) but they weren't enough alone to sink The Beach Boys artistically. The Beach Boys not performing at the Monterey Festival, their lacklustre performances as a live band, the divide between the Mike Love/Alan Jardine faction and the Wilson brothers and Brian Wilson's mental instability conflicted with what Brian was attempting to do in the studio. I wish Smile had been released back in 1966 but I don't think it would have rescued the bands' reputation. Pet Sounds didn't sell well at the time so why would Smile have sold more records? The recent Smile Sessions release is as close as we would have got to the actual release of the album back in 1966 had Capitol Records decided to release it back then. Fact is pop and rock music were moving in a new direction back in the mid sixties, driven by The Beatles and it was other US bands like The Byrds, The Doors and Jefferson Aeroplane who were taking up the challenge rather than The Beach Boys. Personally I feel The Beach Boys would have been a much better band if they had kept David Marks in the band and ditched the two obvious mediocre performers in the band (Love and Jardine). 

Sorry but Smiley Smile to me is a mess, reflective of Capital Records need to salvage something out of the tapes that Brian was working on.