I totally agree.  While teaming up with several bassists, Barlow was the one who really drove the engine room of Tull through their most adventurous album run (Brick -> Stormwatch).  When Ian "realigned" Tull in 1980, keeping Martin was a smart idea but he really dropped the ball by not keeping Barrie on the team.

Can't really think of anyone specific for "bad drumming" though I'll nominate Ginger Baker's "Toad" solo on Wheels of Fire and Bonham's "Moby Dick" on Song Remains the Same for solos that go on way, way too long  

 

Heck ... most metal ... why are they using a drummer when they can do that with a metronome from any DAW? Waste of a person and their talent!

Although I really like Never Turn Your Back On A Friend I think the drums are terrible there, kind of dragging and sloppy, especially on Breadfan.

Agree. Breadfan is a good example of a song that could have been much better with a best drummer.

What's wrong with Lars Ulrich? I have always considered him a good drummer.

Wait, are you actually being serious with that comment??? 

 

Anyway, the album had other problems besides the drumming...

Gerry Conway is a very fine drummer and Paul Burgess was excellent with 10cc and Camel. They were only there for a short time, though.

Former drummer with Spock's Beard - a really fine player.

Anyway, my choice of poor drummer would be Simon King from Hawkwind. As much as I love the band, he plays like a complete amateur much of the time, coming in slightly late, fluffing up fills here and there. Generally sounds ill rehearsed to me. It may have been the desired effect I guess, and I also suspect he was off his tits most of the time. [/QUOTE]

 Like the rest of Hawkwind weren't off their tits.. They have always suffered a bit in the drummer department.. Terry Ollis on occasion couldn't either be bothered to drum at all or fell off his drum stool due to excessive downer usage(allegedly...) and my opinion is that whilst Levitation is a great lp, Ginger baker is not the drummer he thinks he is (by a long shot..)! Martin Griffin was tighter than most of the previous drummers but not terribly inventive.. but, heck, its hawkwind!! It never was about virtuosity!!! Some the best gigs and festivals ive been to in the last 40 years have featured one version or another of the mighty HW

The Drummer with Mona Lisa was pretty dull and basic for such an energetic, theatric band.. a bit like early Marillion...

I hate to call it "bad" drumming however.  Prog seems to be characterized, above all, by excellent drumming.  

Bruford, Collins, Moerlin etc., the list is long! 

Ha!  Yours truly in white, with Les Paul, in the art-project band "Casual Cro-bar."  We were a satire band of a satire band!  This photo was taken during "Heavy Duty." 

Our drummer exploded onstage at our first and only concert, hence the blood stains on my lab coat.  Poor Gary....RIP.

 

I agree about Mayhew, they needed a better drummer, but I don't think the other two got kicked out. In fact, I remember reading a quote from Ant Phillips where he stated that one (maybe Chris Stewart) was a fine drummer. Also, I think John Silver would have stayed on but he opted out of the band to further his studies (or something, it's been a long time since I read up on Genesis history). They certainly liked John Silver, he was a guest at Tony Banks' wedding a few years later in '71/'72 and posed for a pic w/the current members of Genesis (Nursery Cryme period) and Ant Phillips. John Mayhew wasn't invited, I'm guessing it would have been awkward ("Hey, you know how we fired you from the band not too long ago and broke your heart? Well... you wanna come to my wedding?")

siLLy puPPy wrote: ^ Awwww, you Spinal Tap nerd! You are so right :) I just find the bizarre gardening accidnents the funniest!

One day, a very famous guitarist decides to sharpen the gardeners chainsaw... I wonder if the insurance will cover that?? Luckily disaster was averted and the world tour went ahead as planned...

LOL! So it really happens!

Alan White´s just pounding without real meaning on "Relayer", where he and the band as well totally lost their way, both musically and technically, thus their worst "classic" album. He starts to progress shortly after and finally reached his full potential and skills in 1976-78, in "Tormato" he really kicks major ass (exist a couple of great live bootlegs from the era). Finally Alan become a decent rock drummer and one of the very best drummers (solid + versatility). In the seventies, of course.

Generally, if I see someone using matched, rather than trad, grip, I get a bit worried before they even sit on the stool. ;-) 

Good drummers is an easier subject. 

Exactly. To my senses he doesn´t "lose it", he gets progressive. Prog can be found in various places.

This commentator must hate Meshuggah.

 

Keith Moon was, as he put it, "the best Keith Moon-style drummer in rock."  His technical skills may not be on par with Bozzio, but Keith's style practically defined the Who in the classic years.  Yeah, overplaying is at times just as bad as poor playing, but Keith overplayed his way to the top spot in Best Drummer polls to this day.

 

 

Bill Bruford explains very carefully his leaving in "YesYears" docu. For him it always was very hard to fit his sound with Chris Squire´s very different bass playing because he usually got to the higher notes rather than lower ones, basic bass playing that is. And  he realized that the formula has came to it´s end and didn´t waste his time no more. His first love was jazz so he became and always wanted to be a jazz drummer. Thank goodness he was very smart to leave Yes and just received more space & time in a band format to express his real character & superior skills as a musician. He started to blossom with very skillful & very very adventurous King Crimson. The Bruford/Wetton/Cross/Fripp (and Muir, of course) era is something extraordinary & magical in experimental Prog, second to none within the genre. Yes needed simpler, basic rhythm drumming and Alan White was the man. And his input on "Tales from Topographic Oceans" is quite amazing, as a "basic" rock drummer.

I don´t take you so seriously really 

Listen son, you are wasting your time. I don´t give a damn about your opinions on music, arts, politics or whatever. 

You seem to talk a load of bullsh*t about "Tormato" , well I don´t care for your perversions. 

It´s an extraordinary album in Yes´s history and anchors Yes´s legacy. The last great Yes album, and the last great Prog album from the 70´s. Has always since January 1979 sounded fantastic in my systems during the decades. It´s the Rough Diamond Yes. I revisit it in regular basic and I never get tired of it. I stopped listening their 1974 output a long time ago. In "Tormato" there´s absolutely nothing that isn´t Yes. It´s just another brilliant example of the genius of this extraordinary group of very skilled & very very able musicians. Way ahead of time and anybody else really. To me it has always been just incredible piece of music, and much more adventurous in everything, bold and beautiful, yet very cold and remote at the same time. Surely something else at the time. Yes were searching the boundaries of the sounds and musical landscapes, they went where no-one had gone before. The future times. And Yes went back to square one: short songs & melody. Does their first album ring any bell ? There´s some melody. It´s Yes at finest, the starting point. Melody. Music is Melody. 

Here Alan White finally reaches his pinnacle, both in studio and onstage. Jon Anderson, Steve Howe and Chris Squire in particular shine here. A certain bootleg from "Tormato Tour" defines it. In terms of musicality and performance it´s the very finest of Yes. Alongside "Yessongs", 1972. 

As for clowns, they came much later, apparently.  

Hi,

GreatBeyonder wrote: Keith Moon is to drummers what Jimi Hendrix is to guitarists. You can't really compare him to what other musicians were doing with that instrument.

I do not think that Keith Moon is a bad drummer. What he did, however, became a bit clearer to me, a bit later when I played Gong (with Moerlin) and Guru Guru (Dance of the Flames) to my roomate who was a magnificent drummer, with a good feel and his hero was Carl Palmer. Tom, was concerned that both Moon, Moerlin and Neumeier, did not sustain a bottom end as is usually the case for most rock'n'roll ... they did their own thing, which ended up enhancing the very music they were involved with. And it "enhanced it", simply by making it so different from all the other pieces of music ... when you can easily turn on the radio this morning, and the first 3 of the 5 songs you hear have exactly the same drumming, with various breaks in between. You did not get that in those days much ... and it was one of the things that helped illustrate the new music. 

The guitar player in Tom's band, who was very proficient with his Gibson, made a note that he would be scared of playing with Neumeier, Moon and Moerlin, because he had no idea what they were doing ... and what they would do next, but he was amazed at how the music sounded so together with all that stuff going on. He even tried to learn Steve Hillage's solo with Daevid Allen in the "You" album.

All in all, the one drummer I like to take to task, is Mike, of the old Dream Theater, who is a magnificent time keeper, but he is afraid to get out of his easier zone, to do something else, and then he does that piece of TFTO with Transatlantic, and he ends up showing how much better of a drummer he has become, by actually doing a very nice job, and better than his counter part work with DT in many cases. One might say ... noooo, he has to be like this here and like that there ... but the mark of a true drummer, is not just his time keeping, but his ability to COLOR the music ... so it works on many more levels as a piece of music. To my ears, this is not happening all the time, except on the "breaks" and "transitions", which means that in between, it's the same pattern on a different time 60bpm, instead of 90bpm? 

Is that all drumming is?

The news for us all, is that no ... it isn't. And some of these outlandish folks are usually the ones breaking the "rules" and refusing to do what is expected of them, and Keith Moon made that clear on his audition with The Who ... and you have to believe/understand that Pete and the rest thought ... this will help us define our music!

It takes courage to be different!