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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
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Topic: Funny Ways: Your Unusual Prog OpinionsPosted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Subject: Funny Ways: Your Unusual Prog Opinions
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 09:31
A thread to share any opinions you have on any aspect of the genre that are unconventional or not commonly held. Is there a frequently disliked piece of music that you think is a masterpiece? Do you believe that a certain part of prog history went differently than is often told? How about an artist that you believe should/shouldn't be on this site for odd reasons?
My own example is that my favourite song off of In The Court of The Crimson King is Moonchild.
Please keep the discussion respectful and try not to reduce it to just "I hate ____ band because they suck".
------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
Replies: Posted By: A_Flower
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 09:40
I find Shine On You Crazy Diamond quite overrated
------------- User Banned for this Post
Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 09:50
My most played album by far is Casualties of Cool by Devin Townsend + Che Aimee Dorval. I don't think it's even my favourite album of his. (Though it'd be in my top 3)
Snarky Puppy should be on here because they've experimented with more genres than many of the bigger bands on this website and the last album of theirs I've heard was very rock-ish. (We Like it Here)
Not a strange opinion, I think, but I think Progarchives should take a page out of Metal Music Archives book and allow bands to have albums from multiple genres. Like Opeth's Heritage should be heavy prog and maybe prog folk, not tech/extreme prog metal. Also adding a 'not prog' genre would be nice for, say, early fusion bands to exclude that album from the top 100. (*Cough* Kind of Blue *Cough*)
------------- https://twitter.com/ProgFollower" rel="nofollow - @ProgFollower on Twitter. Tweet me muzak.
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:09
I like modern prog.
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:10
HemispheresOfXanadu wrote:
Not a strange opinion, I think, but I think Progarchives should take a page out of Metal Music Archives book and allow bands to have albums from multiple genres. Like Opeth's Heritage should be heavy prog and maybe prog folk, not tech/extreme prog metal. Also adding a 'not prog' genre would be nice for, say, early fusion bands to exclude that album from the top 100. (*Cough* Kind of Blue *Cough*)
I agree with you on the genre classification. I think it would make a lot of sense to be more selective over how an artist's discography is categorized. It doesn't really make sense to call every album by an artist who develops and redefines their sound a lot over the span of their career just one genre. Surely no one would consider "Nursery Cryme" and "Invisible Touch" to both be "symphonic prog". Plus it could help alleviate a bit of the angst that fans feel when bands they like are labeled as "prog-related", even if some of their albums could be better classified under actual prog sub-genres.
------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
Posted By: ALotOfBottle
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:13
I actually quite like From Genesis To Revelation as a folk rock album.
Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:20
I think Rush is pretty boring, except Hemispheres (song) and La Villa Strangiato. I know there are quite some Rush fans here, but I just find it quite boring, more of a classic rock band who made longer songs as well.
-------------
https://pascalvandendool.bandcamp.com/album/a-moment-of-thought" rel="nofollow - New album! "A Moment of Thought"
Posted By: ALotOfBottle
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:26
DDPascalDD wrote:
I think Rush is pretty boring, except Hemispheres (song) and La Villa Strangiato. I know there are quite some Rush fans here, but I just find it quite boring, more of a classic rock band who made longer songs as well.
Exactly the same way with me.
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:27
Might be weird, but I don't think Santana should be considered prog. They have their unique sound, no question about it, but it's more classic rock with a latin beat than prog-rock.
Also, a lot of the metal bands are somehow considered prog, which is a long stretch by far, since they show very little innovation or uniqueness.
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:35
ALotOfBottle wrote:
I actually quite like From Genesis To Revelation as a folk rock album.
It's one of the only two Genesis albums that I like...
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:37
^^ I think this thread is going to turn into what bands are or aren't prog......
Regarding Santana,,,,they are listed here as jazz fusion...not prog per se.
But I have similar opinions, no that unusual, about the prog related and crossover prog categories....either a band is prog rock or it isn't so why even have these categories and list bands like The Who and Zep who aren't really prog rock at all.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 10:58
Most folks herald Vol 3 as The Softs finest achievement - I rather prefer Vol 2. I think Rush's best album is Signals. I find Mahavishnu Orchestra exeedingly dull bar Apocalypse. Yes never bettered The Yes Album. Lodger is one of my absolute fave Bowie albums. The vast majority of contemporary prog fans seem to love Mariuz Duda's vocals, I don't. The best Burnin' Red Ivanhoe album is also currently the one with the poorest rating: 6 Elefantskovcikadeviser. Best song on ITCHYCOCK is 'I Talk To The Wind'. The 80s were wonderful. Of the first four Fish lead Marillion albums 'Misplaced Childhood' is my least fave. Stomu Yamashta's finest hour wasn't with Winwood and company but rather his brilliant debut - an adventure of rhythm. Stratosfear is my least played TD album from the 70s.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Isaac Ness
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 11:09
i hate the fact that pink floyd it's qualified as prog, and whenever somebody mentions prog rock, PF it's the first thing that the average non-prog listener thinks of.
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 11:15
Isaac Ness wrote:
i hate the fact that pink floyd it's qualified as prog, and whenever somebody mentions prog rock, PF it's the first thing that the average non-prog listener thinks of.
You aren't the only one who feels that way about Floyd.
btw....welcome to Prog Rock Archives.....
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 11:18
I think all of Gentle Giant's first eight albums are between good and great, except Three Friends. Which is dull as hell.
I love Yes (up to 1974) but can't stand Jon's lyrics (at any point).
Similarly I would like all King Crimson albums from ITCOCK to Red better if they were instrumental. The lyrics (with one or two honourable exceptions) are embarrassing and I find both Greg Lake and John Wetton overdo the vocal histrionics. I actually prefer Boz.
I have never managed to listen to a Jethro Tull album all the way through.
I liked Rush more when they were a hard rock band with ambitions than when they went full on prog. Caress of Steel rocks!
Likewise, the more progressive Mastodon got, the less interested I was.
Love Beach is a better album than Works Vol. 1. At least it ends sooner
Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 12:46
Guldbamsen wrote:
Yes never bettered The Yes Album.
Nobody will ever have a more "unusual prog opinion".
-------------
https://pascalvandendool.bandcamp.com/album/a-moment-of-thought" rel="nofollow - New album! "A Moment of Thought"
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 13:18
DDPascalDD wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
Yes never bettered The Yes Album.
Nobody will ever have a more "unusual prog opinion".
Oddly enough, I'll have to second Guldbamsen on this one. I feel that everything Yes did until Relayer was exceptional, but The Yes Album is simply the one that I enjoy the most reliably and consistently.
Another few of mine:
I prefer the album In The Wake of Poseidon to In The Court of The Crimson King
Atom Heart Mother is the single best thing Pink Floyd produced
I adore just about every jazz fusion band from the 70's Quebec scene except for Sloche. I never found them to be any more than decent.
------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 13:28
It is of my unusual opinion that prog causes violence in nursing homes and that effects the earth's rotation in unforeseen ways
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 13:31
I know of at least one more PAer who feels the same about The Yes Album (Darryl aka Zravkapt).
A few more: Klaus Schulze's best album is Blackdance. I dislike Annie Haslam's vocals with a vengeance. Very nice lady though. Floyd's More is a particular fave of mine although it isn't their best. Ummagumma is a masterpiece - studio album included. Iskander is Supersister's best album. I prefer Michael Giles over Bill Bruford. I prefer Phil Collins over Chester Thompson (on drums). Vangelis finest hour isn't the Blade Runner soundtrack or Heaven & Hell but Dragon.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:06
Guldbamsen wrote:
I know of at least one more PAer who feels the same about The Yes Album (Darryl aka Zravkapt).
A few more: I dislike Annie Haslam's vocals with a vengeance. Very nice lady though. Floyd's More is a particular fave of mine although it isn't their best. Ummagumma is a masterpiece - studio album included.
The Yes Album has balls!
I agree with the three above (and I also agree that prog causes violence in nursing homes). Here's some of my own:
I like Magma but can't stand the studio version of MDK I think Wakeman's best album is No Earthly Connection (and that it's better than most 70's Yes albums) 1984 is the best thing Anthony Phillips did (with or without Genesis) "Taurus II" is one of Oldfield's best side-longs. Heatwave is the best Univers Zero album I like the Talk Talk offshoot .O.Rang more than Talk Talk themselves
------------- Magma America Great Make Again
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:21
MDK, like most other Magma material, is far better in a live setting.
Still haven't checked out O.Rang but something tells me that I'm going to.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:27
Isaac Ness wrote:
i hate the fact that pink floyd it's qualified as prog, and whenever somebody mentions prog rock, PF it's the first thing that the average non-prog listener thinks of.
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:29
My mom doesn't.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:42
Univers Zero is the weakest original RIO group
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:46
I prefer both Stand Up and A Passion Play to Thick As A Brick. So beats anything Gabriel released in the 70s as a solo artist.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:48
Guldbamsen wrote:
Of the first four Fish lead Marillion albums 'Misplaced Childhood' is my least fave.
Aaaah, I'm not alone. Never understood why this is considered as their best album and as a neo-prog gem.
Here are my 2 cents:
- "Selling England..." is my least fave from the Genesis' Gabriel years - "Brain Salad Surgery" is my least fave from ELP's first period - My second fave Hawkwind studio album from the 80's is the futuristic "The Xenon Codex" - I find Iron Maiden's "Powerslave" only half-powerful, my least fave from the 80's - I find Tangerine Dream's lives Logos and Pergamon a little overrated
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:55
I think I'd put Fugazi at the top then Clutching, Script and last Misplaced Childhood.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: andreol263
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 14:58
This is a pretty good post, so let's begin:
-> Atom Heart Mother it's the biggest masterpiece from Pink Floyd, and my prefered music from PF is Alan's Psychadelic Breakfast.
->For me, PF's A Saurceful of Secrets it's the first Prog album ever, Celestial Voices part it's like the rupture from Psychodelic and the beginning of Prog.
->I can't stand Rush, not because the Hard-Prog style, but the Lee's Vocal are terrible!
->Italian Classic Scene is MILES better than the English Classic Scene, Carnascialia only album it's more beautiful and diverse than anything that Yes has made.
->Os Mutantes is the worst prog band from Brazil.
->Gong is the best Cantebury Scene band, i can't stand Soft Machine 3.
Well, in the moment this is what i feel
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 15:00
twseel wrote:
Univers Zero is the weakest original RIO group
I'd go with Stormy Six.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 15:09
Even without vocals I'd still say that Caravan sounds particularly Canterburian with that organ of Sinclair's....but yes instrumental Canterbury is more or less jazz rock/fusion in essence.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 15:34
Guldbamsen wrote:
I prefer both Stand Up and A Passion Play to Thick As A Brick. So beats anything Gabriel released in the 70s as a solo artist.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 15:36
I thought I was alone regarding Gabriel. Almost everyone seems to favour Melt.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 15:44
The first three that come to mind...
Peter Gabriel really came into his own as an artist after he left Genesis.
I like Rush's '80s and '90s albums much better than their "proggier" Seventies stuff.
I have never managed to get into Foxtrot, and "Supper's Ready" bores me to tears.
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 15:50
And You and I is by far the best thing on Close to the Edge. Being a huuuuge fan of psych and Krautrock I should adore Guru Guru's debut UFO...but I really don't. Too much acid in the studio (is that even possible? Oh yes). The best Opeth album is the debut Orchid. I have a hard time stomaching Gabriels overemotional singing on The Musical Box (and I'm a big fan).
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 15:53
Ok, after thinking a bit I'll go with this one first.....
My favorite Rush album is their first one.
No pompous preachy lyrics. No Geddy's faltering voice. Just pure Alex going nuts. Bring it.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 15:55
^
Followed closely by Fly By Night and Caress.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 16:08
I like "The Incident".
I like "Under Wraps".
"Presence" and "LZ3" are the best Zeppelin albums.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 16:11
I like The Incident as well although it's far from being at the top of my Wilson releases. Seeing it performed live made the penny drop for me.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 16:14
The first two Kate Bush albums are the best. Passion and youth sometimes beat overthinking it.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 16:18
The last bit of your post Proof? Compare Piper to The Division Bell or The Yes Album with Fly From Here.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 16:26
Guldbamsen wrote:
The last bit of your post Proof? Compare Piper to The Division Bell or The Yes Album with Fly From Here.
I've always loved debuts in most cases. Even the very first YES self titled I love. Great songs!
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 16:33
My favourite Genesis albums are Trespass and And Then There Were Three, and I don't really appreciate the ones in between those.
Gentle Giant's The Missing Piece is a masterpiece, and I really am bored by their Three Friends album.
Floating by Eloy is also quite boring for me, and I think their first two albums are by far the best they did.
Helmut Koellen of Triumvirat as a solo artist should be considered Prog Related, and part of PA.
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 16:40
Octopus > Three Friends.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 17:52
I find In The Court of the Crimson King to be really awful. Not only does the cover just make me cringe, but most of the songs are either too boring, too long, or too improvisational for my tastes (Moonchild). I Talk to the Wind would be a really nice song if it was shorter, and the title track is okay but that's it. Also, I personally prefer "Pictures of a City" over Schizoid Man. Yeah, it's similar, but it sounds much cleaner to my ears.
I don't really like King Crimson to begin with, which is an unpopular opinion in of itself, but I do enjoy The Power to Believe, Starless and Bible Black, and Red is okay.
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 20:27
The eighties were every bit as good music-wise as the seventies (though it mostly wasn't prog what was good about them).
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 20:45
It is totally incomprehensible that Irmin Schmidt doesn't have a progarchives entry.
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 20:48
Finnforest wrote:
The first two Kate Bush albums are the best. Passion and youth sometimes beat overthinking it.
Agreed. The first two experiences are the best IMHO
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 21:11
My unusual prog opinion?
Anything that Peter Hammill sings on is more or less overwrought and excruciating, and I cringe most of the time when I hear his histrionic wail.
A shame, because I can tell the music of VdGG behind his voice is terrific.
Posted By: Licancabur
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 21:15
Finnforest wrote:
Octopus > Three Friends.
I concurr, Someone had to say it
Posted By: Magnum Vaeltaja
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 21:31
Licancabur wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
Octopus > Three Friends.
I concurr, Someone had to say it
I thought that this was the prevailing opinion, though, seeing as Octopus has a score of 4.28 compared to 4.11 for Three Friends and Octopus is in the top 60 here on PA while Three Friends isn't even in the top 100.
------------- when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 21:36
Not an `unusual prog opinion' so much as a pet peeve or a disappointment:
The idea among many that prog bands aren't worth listening to unless the vocals/lyrics are in English.
And that's not even coming from me simply as an Italian prog fanboy...
I would have thought more prog listeners would be more accepting of vocals sung in other languages because Prog is primarily enjoyed for the instrumental qualities, where the vocals and lyrics are often secondary. I mean, come on, although many of us often enjoy the lyrics on prog albums, I doubt that there's even a single prog listener there for the lyrics and vocals first!
I think those who don't venture beyong the English language groups are seriously missing out in so many sh*t-hot albums.
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 21:42
^ It takes awhile. It wasn't until I was well into my thirties and deep into prog that Italian bands began to appeal to me-- then South American, French, etc ...
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 22:09
I don't care much for Marillion's Brave and the line "love can be as hard as algebra" from Hard as Love made me cringe. And on the flip side I really like the lower rated Holidays in Eden and Radiation.
Posted By: Licancabur
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 22:32
Magnum Vaeltaja wrote:
Licancabur wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
Octopus > Three Friends.
I concurr, Someone had to say it
I thought that this was the prevailing opinion, though, seeing as Octopus has a score of 4.28 compared to 4.11 for Three Friends and Octopus is in the top 60 here on PA while Three Friends isn't even in the top 100.
yes, it may be the prevailing opinion, but I don't hear (nor read) people talking about Octopus as often as Three friends. at least it is the way i see it, i may be biased tho, who knows.
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 23:33
- The Yes albums is one of my least liked albums from the band (I could actually do without it, given that the one song I really love from it, Starship Trooper, is so much better on Keys to Ascension). - I would give more 5 star albums to Rick Wakeman solo than to Yes themselves. - I really dislike Peter Gabriel's singing (as well as Wetton's). - I think the best Gentle Giant albums (and the only 5 star ones for me) are the first 2, and from there onwards they became less enjoyable. - "The Division Bell" is among my favourite Pink Floyd albums... number 3, just under "Wish you were Here" and "Animals". And yes, over "Dark Side of the Moon" (though not for much).
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 14 2016 at 23:37
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Not an `unusual prog opinion' so much as a pet peeve or a disappointment:
The idea among many that prog bands aren't worth listening to unless the vocals/lyrics are in English.
And that's not even coming from me simply as an Italian prog fanboy...
I would have thought more prog listeners would be more accepting of vocals sung in other languages because Prog is primarily enjoyed for the instrumental qualities, where the vocals and lyrics are often secondary. I mean, come on, although many of us often enjoy the lyrics on prog albums, I doubt that there's even a single prog listener there for the lyrics and vocals first!
I think those who don't venture beyong the English language groups are seriously missing out in so many sh*t-hot albums.
Actually, for me if a band whose mother language isn't english sings in english, it's a downside. If I find bands that I like from different countries, I prefer them to sing in their native tongue... it's more interesting, even if I don't understand the lyrics. And I believe that's particularly important on RPI.
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 02:46
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Not an `unusual prog opinion' so much as a pet peeve or a disappointment:
The idea among many that prog bands aren't worth listening to unless the vocals/lyrics are in English.
And that's not even coming from me simply as an Italian prog fanboy...
I would have thought more prog listeners would be more accepting of vocals sung in other languages because Prog is primarily enjoyed for the instrumental qualities, where the vocals and lyrics are often secondary. I mean, come on, although many of us often enjoy the lyrics on prog albums, I doubt that there's even a single prog listener there for the lyrics and vocals first!
I think those who don't venture beyong the English language groups are seriously missing out in so many sh*t-hot albums.
I generally view it as a benefit if a band sings in a language I don't understand. Whilst there are some great lyricists out there, they are a rarity (and maybe rarer in prog than elsewhere). Most lyrics range from bland to actively embarassing. I can happily live without having them interfere with my enjoyment of the music. I wish Jon Anderson sang in Tibetan, for instance.
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 02:51
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Instrumental Canterbury is just Jazz Fusion
Non-instrumental Canterbury is just jazz fusion with a bloke who sounds like he's got a carrot stuck up his nose singing silly words on top of it.
I kid because I love
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 03:39
- I'm also one to think that TYA is their best album. - AAMOF, I find that there are a fair amount of TYA albums that are better than Yes albums. (Alvin & the boys rules) - Agreed that Lake and Wetton (and Belew) are not Crimson vocalists. I reserve that to Gordon Haskell. - I rate FGTR ahead of W&W, ATTWT and Duke... (all their later albums) - BTW, I also have a problem with MDK's studio version 's sonics.
Guldbamsen wrote:
I thought I was alone regarding Gabriel. Almost everyone seems to favour Melt.
So and Security for me... Don't really like the rest
Guldbamsen wrote:
Being a huuuuge fan of psych and Krautrock I
should adore Guru Guru's debut UFO...but I really don't. Too much acid
in the studio (is that even possible? Oh yes).
not on the album, but same period
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 04:07
Sean Trane wrote:
- BTW, I also have a problem with MDK's studio version 's sonics.
And in general live Magma > studio Magma.
Of the 70s studio albums I only listen much to Kobaia, 1001 Degrees and KA. If I want to hear the rest it's live recordings.
Posted By: Sztermel
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 04:34
I'll write something to increase my already huge post count :)
- I don't like Dark Side Of The Moon, too simplistic to me (my opinion), - My favourite LZ album is Presence, - I love last three Japan albums to death, I played each of them more times than some of my other favourite prog albums, - I've actually found Can - Out Of Reach album quite fun and interesting, back in the day when I was a kid and was familiar with their previous stuff :)
Posted By: freyacat
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 04:56
This is a good thread, because it is exposing some of the discomfort we can feel with the standard dogma surrounding progressive rock.
An oft-unchallenged assertion here, especially among fellow Rush fans, is that the coming of the 80's, with greater emphasis on synthesizers and shorter-form compositions, was a time of musical degradation. My own view is that you can hear how tired the progressive rock genre was getting at the end of the 70's, and that the New Wave influence on our favorite bands revitalized most of them, and brought them melodic and lyrical focus.
I have lately been feeling that Robin Trower's music should be included here as a form of progressive rock. It usually gets categorized as blues-rock, and most progressive rock is based on classical melodies rather than the blues. But if you listen to the song structures, and hear Robin's creative use of guitar effects, you can tell that more is going on than your average blues rock. The lyrics as well are often mythical in scope, just like you find in Progressive Rock.
One last orthodox opinion to offer: I think that spirituality is an essential component of Progressive Rock which doesn't get recognized often enough. I define spirituality not necessarily as being connected to religious belief, but more in the sense that a quest for meaning is central to one's understanding. I think that part of the motivation for making music this different was that something more complex needed to be said.
------------- sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time
Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 05:17
well, let's see
I've always liked Genesis - Nursery Cryme and SEBTP more than Foxtrot. Last time I listened to Foxtrot, I only listened to the short ones (haven't listened to Supper's Ready in a long time, I need a special mood for it, it seems)
Yes - the debut and Drama are two of my favorite from them. Don't remember the last time I listened to CttE (great album, no doubt about it, but I rarely listen to it).
I also like 80s Rush more than 70s Rush
Pink Floyd's debut is one of my least favorite albums from them.
In recent years, I've listened to Hogarth Marillion albums more than the Fish ones.
I'm appalled when I see DT fans/listeners saying they enjoy the later days albums more than the early/90s albums.
I haven't listened to Jethro Tull's TaaB in years.
The clean vocals Opeth albums are my favorite from them (I rarely listen to the death metal Opeth).
I like 80s Kansas
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 05:20
I don't hate the Trevor Rabin Yes Era. I rather like it.
I'm pretty sure I understand most Jon Anderson lyrics.
Works 1 is my favorite ELP album
Lizard and Islands are my favorite King Crimson
2015 was my favorite year for Prog rock since the 70's
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 06:15
Tago Mago, Ege Bamyasi and Soon Over Babaluma are my favourite Can albums and true masterpieces, but I've always struggled to get into Future Days; I miss the sharpness there that is in the others.
Another case where I can't get into the album of an artist that by and large is valued most highly by Prog fans is Bowie's Low.
Posted By: progmars
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 06:24
Browsing this thread, I thought of this :
I've ALWAYS hated most FLUTE parts in ANY prog rock. Dont' know why. Can't relate to the sound.
Needless to say I could never listen to any Jethro Tull without wanting to break something.
Same line of thinking :
I wish BAGPIPE would have been more used in progrock (any period). Must be something very personal, but I deeply react to the mix of rock and bagpipe.
Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 06:41
Concerning neo-prog, I'm only an occasional listener.
My fave band of the genre is Twelfth Night. Truly unique and creative compositions. Maybe it's neo-prog for non-neo-prog fans.
I enjoy Marillion's Fish-era albums and some IQ records, but only one Pendragon album, their debut "The Jewel".
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions
Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 08:26
freyacat wrote:
This is a good thread, because it is exposing some of the discomfort we can feel with the standard dogma surrounding progressive rock.
An oft-unchallenged assertion here, especially among fellow Rush fans, is that the coming of the 80's, with greater emphasis on synthesizers and shorter-form compositions, was a time of musical degradation. My own view is that you can hear how tired the progressive rock genre was getting at the end of the 70's, and that the New Wave influence on our favorite bands revitalized most of them, and brought them melodic and lyrical focus.
I have lately been feeling that Robin Trower's music should be included here as a form of progressive rock. It usually gets categorized as blues-rock, and most progressive rock is based on classical melodies rather than the blues. But if you listen to the song structures, and hear Robin's creative use of guitar effects, you can tell that more is going on than your average blues rock. The lyrics as well are often mythical in scope, just like you find in Progressive Rock.
One last orthodox opinion to offer: I think that spirituality is an essential component of Progressive Rock which doesn't get recognized often enough. I define spirituality not necessarily as being connected to religious belief, but more in the sense that a quest for meaning is central to one's understanding. I think that part of the motivation for making music this different was that something more complex needed to be said.
Sensitive reasoning on both issues, fully support !
Posted By: HosiannaMantra
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 09:47
"Volume One" is my least favorite Soft Machine album. And "Land of Cockayne" is a great album, though it should've been released under some different name. I prefer "Ummagumma" and "More" to "Animals" and "The Wall".
I don't really think that Alex Lifeson can cope with filling long tunes with guitar lines. And I can't stand "Tom Sawyer". Actually, I think they're the best at playing more conventional hard rock.
I prefer Japan to David Bowie.
Anathema left metal riffs and growling vocals, but all the things I find cheesy and frustrating in modern metal remained in their sound.
I love some new age and smooth jazz.
Magma's and Queen's music contain too many massive vocals for me to really enjoy it.
I can't deny their originality and lyrical diversity, but I always considered VdGG to be the second rate prog band.
I adore "Lizard" and "Islands".
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 09:51
Dellinger wrote:
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
The idea among many that prog bands aren't worth listening to unless the vocals/lyrics are in English.
Actually, for me if a band whose mother language isn't english sings in english, it's a downside. If I find bands that I like from different countries, I prefer them to sing in their native tongue... it's more interesting, even if I don't understand the lyrics. And I believe that's particularly important on RPI.
That's me as well. People singing in their first language is so much more rewarding, ultimately. I can't listen to poorly executed English vocals that some band is forcing themselves into, for what they think will be wider appeal.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 11:48
Libra's Winter Day's Nightmare is a super record, deserving much more attention than it ever got.
Helmut Koellen's song "Main Street" off of his solo album "You Won't See Me" should have been released as a single, and could have been a huge rock anthem.
Atomic Rooster's early 80s EPs with John du Cann are the best recordings the band ever recorded.
Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 11:54
progmars wrote:
Browsing this thread, I thought of this :
I've ALWAYS hated most FLUTE parts in ANY prog rock. Dont' know why. Can't relate to the sound.
Needless to say I could never listen to any Jethro Tull without wanting to break something.
Same line of thinking :
I wish BAGPIPE would have been more used in progrock (any period). Must be something very personal, but I deeply react to the mix of rock and bagpipe.
Fortunately not much of a problem in prog rock, but I absolutely hate bagpipes. Here, however, is one application of bagpipes I can get behind...
------------- He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
Posted By: aattiic
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 13:19
The majority of King Crimson's music sucks!
------------- "There you go man, keep as cool as you can. Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free."
Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 13:22
^ Except their 1969-2016 period. That was a good one.
------------- "Hey there, Dog Man, now I drink from your bowl."
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 15:15
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
My unusual prog opinion?
Anything that Peter Hammill sings on is more or less overwrought and excruciating, and I cringe most of the time when I hear his histrionic wail.
A shame, because I can tell the music of VdGG behind his voice is terrific.
I agree , which is why I have not gotten into VdGG. Some other opinions of mine, many similar to some above:
PFs debut album is my least favorite album of theirs; Sid Barrett had his moments but usually not.
In many ways, 80s King Crimson was a better band than the various 70s versions.
Hold Your Fire by Rush is one of their best albums.
Out of the eight Gentle Giant albums I have, Three Friends is my least favorite because it's supposed story line doesn't hold together.
Foxtrot is my least favorite of PG era Genesis even though I still consider it 5 star.
Can is noise.
So is most Prog Metal and almost all of Extreme/Tech Metal.
We're Only In It For the Money is random garbage.
Soft Machine's Elton Dean sounds like he is strangling a goat.
Roxy Music's Andy MacKay could not play his instruments until 3 or 4 albums in. In fact, I don't think any of them really knew how to play when they recorded their first album.
Fear of a Blank Planet is either derivative or dull and turned me off from Porcupine Tree.
Renaissance's 80s pop music is listenable. So is Triumvirat's A La Carte. As I said, pop.
It is disappointing that Steve Hackett's greatest commercial success lies in revisiting Genesis.
Dave Cousins is one of the best songwriter's found on this site.
Both Steve Morse and Mike Oldfield have played the same guitar solo in different songs too many times (and I still love their music).
Some of these I have expressed before. Remember kids, it is your own ears that are doing the listening; you do not have to like or dislike anything simply because somebody else says you should. At the same time, keep an open mind, listen, and expand your horizons.
------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 15:33
I'm with you on Fear of a Blank Planet. I like much of Porcupine Tree but I never got why this one attracts the highest ratings.
Posted By: Lewa
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 15:54
Hi. Could you perhaps recommend a clean vocals Opeth album?
I didn't even know they had them and might give them another chance.
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 15:57
Lewa wrote:
Hi. Could you perhaps recommend a clean vocals Opeth album?
I didn't even know they had them and might give them another chance.
You can check out Pale Communion (pretty good and PA's Album of the Year 2014). Its predecessor, Heritage, may be clean as well (I have not yet heard that one).
-------------
Posted By: Lewa
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 15:59
Thank you so much!
I'll listen right away.
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 16:08
Because I never read about music, only listened to it, I always assumed the lyrics to Yes songs (not all of which were written by Anderson, btw) were perfectly comprehensible and have always treated them as such. They never sounded like gibberish to me.
I think that The Yes Album is in fact the first real Yes album, and that if Steve Howe had not joined the band, they would never have been half as amazing. Which is not to diss Anderson, Squire et al., I just think that Howe's guitar sound is what made Yes into Yes.
I like A Trick of the Tale best of all Genesis albums because it seems to me the perfect intersection between their prog and pop iterations. It's the most accessible. I don't consider accessibility a bad thing. I love Selling England by the Pound, but still prefer ATOTT.
I have never once knowingly listened to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (although I may have listened to it unknowingly when my husband was playing it). Nothing I have read about TLLDOB has ever made me want to listen to it, although I do feel obligated to listen to it someday, in the same way I feel obligated to read Joyce's Ulysses someday, but I don't see either day coming up on the horizon anytime soon.
I think Pink Floyd would have been a much better band had Roger Waters been less of a self-pitying narcissist. The only Pink Floyd album that manages to be completely wonderful in spite of Roger Waters is Wish You Were Here. Other than that, I would be okay with never hearing another Pink Floyd album ever again.
I really want to like Rush, and would do so if the vocals weren't so damn annoying. I do like a few songs here and there (Limelight, for example) but it's in spite of the singing, not because of it. I do wonder what they would sound like had they kept the band exactly as it is but added a singer who didn't make me cringe every time he/she opened his/her mouth.
I like King Crimson's work a lot, but wish I could just enjoy it without feeling obliged to enjoy it.
I'm kind of thinking about liking Dream Theatre, but I'm waiting to see if the urge goes away before I invest in any of their CDs.
I like Opeth. Not love, but like. I kind of like Swedish prog generally and am hoping to find time to expand my knowledge of it.
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 17:23
emigre80 wrote:
I really want to like Rush, and would do so if the vocals weren't so damn annoying. I do like a few songs here and there (Limelight, for example) but it's in spite of the singing, not because of it.
I do wonder what they would sound like had they kept the band exactly as it is but added a singer who didn't make me cringe every time he/she opened his/her mouth.
why dear... it wouldn't have been Rush. Plenty of bands had chops... what set Rush apart were the grade school philosophy for dummies (and Rush fan) lyrics.. but in the end they eventually become endearing. who says Prog can not have humor.. even if not exactly what was intended to be funny...
then there is Geddy's voice... I couldn't imagine Rush being Rush.. or really all that notable to be honest without the great shrieking elf himself. Character man.. it is all about character..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: LittleBig
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 17:27
Lewa wrote:
Hi. Could you perhaps recommend a clean vocals Opeth album?
I didn't even know they had them and might give them another chance.
Damnation (2003)
Heritage (2011)
Pale Communion (2014)
Posted By: andreol263
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 18:38
Another unsual opinion,I prefer The Division Bell than DSOM and WYWH
-------------
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 18:53
andreol263 wrote:
Another unsual opinion,I prefer The Division Bell than DSOM and WYWH
at least you didn't say AMLoR That would have raised a few eyebrows..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 18:59
He'd be wrong on both counts.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 19:00
yeah but .. that ....oh... just leave it alone Micky...
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: andreol263
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 19:12
Really, i Find Cluster One,Poles Apart, Marooned and High Hopes better than any DSOTM/WYWH song.
-------------
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 19:16
micky wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
I really want to like Rush, and would do so if the vocals weren't so damn annoying. I do like a few songs here and there (Limelight, for example) but it's in spite of the singing, not because of it.
I do wonder what they would sound like had they kept the band exactly as it is but added a singer who didn't make me cringe every time he/she opened his/her mouth.
why dear... it wouldn't have been Rush. Plenty of bands had chops... what set Rush apart were the grade school philosophy for dummies (and Rush fan) lyrics.. but in the end they eventually become endearing. who says Prog can not have humor.. even if not exactly what was intended to be funny...
then there is Geddy's voice... I couldn't imagine Rush being Rush.. or really all that notable to be honest without the great shrieking elf himself. Character man.. it is all about character..
And if we're being honest, most Rushies I knew made fun of Geddy's voice constantly, especially on the LPs where it's really bad like Fly by Night or 2112 .
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Posted By: ginodi
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 20:20
Wow...a great opinion thread, and I arrived quite late (had to work). So here goes my contribution:
I...
--haven't heard an RPI release that disappointed me. That genre dominates my CD purchases and most of the content on my Ipod. Being Italian helps.
--when Peter Gabriel left Genesis, I quit listening to them.
--Jethro Tull is my favorite band, yet I have not purchased Under Wraps because I cannot get through one minute of any song.
--still think Roger Waters made Pink Floyd a great band. Hell with his tendencies.
--am not a fan of Rush, though I did love 2112.
--Opeth and Dream Theater are my favorites in the metal genre. Sorry, but not much else touches these two.
--Gentle Giant (they lost me after Power and the Glory), and King Crimson (up to Red) are pure masterpieces.
--wonder why Neo-Prog bands are hated...
--love classic era Ange.
--not a fan of Progressive Electronic, Post Rock/Math Rock, Jazz Rock/Fusion genres.
--not a fan boy for Steven Wilson...but damned close to being one.
--check Prog Archives several times a day.
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 20:54
ginodi wrote:
--still think Roger Waters made Pink Floyd a great band. Hell with his tendencies.
Hear, hear.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 21:29
Atavachron wrote:
ginodi wrote:
--still think Roger Waters made Pink Floyd a great band. Hell with his tendencies.
Hear, hear.
I think these would count as "usual" prog opinions rather than unusual ones.
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 21:40
A great album and artist, commonly, is one that strongly divides opinion. Some may feel revulsion whereas others will feel exultation. Many will be apathetic, but they don't count since they keep pretty quiet. This may lead to great one page plus battles of words in forums, can end friendships, may lead to locked threads, or may lead to the combatants leaving the site momentarily in frustration or out of bloody boredom to go get a snack and watch some sc-fi instead. They will come back, but only to post "body jello shots" and "ST:WoK" (the epic cooking with Ricardo Montalban and Steve Hillage feature) while painfully ignoring the battle that they had been so wounded by, or mildly annoyed by. Or in some causes plotting their revenge, "Khannnn".
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 22:17
LittleBig wrote:
well, let's see
I've always liked Genesis - Nursery Cryme and SEBTP more than Foxtrot. Last time I listened to Foxtrot, I only listened to the short ones (haven't listened to Supper's Ready in a long time, I need a special mood for it, it seems)
Yes - the debut and Drama are two of my favorite from them. Don't remember the last time I listened to CttE (great album, no doubt about it, but I rarely listen to it).
I also like 80s Rush more than 70s Rush
Pink Floyd's debut is one of my least favorite albums from them.
In recent years, I've listened to Hogarth Marillion albums more than the Fish ones.
I'm appalled when I see DT fans/listeners saying they enjoy the later days albums more than the early/90s albums.
I haven't listened to Jethro Tull's TaaB in years.
The clean vocals Opeth albums are my favorite from them (I rarely listen to the death metal Opeth).
I like 80s Kansas
I also mostly can't stand growling Opeth (actually, I don't like growling in metal as a general rule), so I mostly have the non-growling songs and the last two albums. However, The Dreapery Falls is too brilliant a song and had to love it despite the growling.
Posted By: jazz2896
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 22:24
-I greatly dislike any prog that tends to add uplifting morals to music (this seems to be more of a modern trend), it usually comes off as quite cheesy.
-I think Beefheart needs to be higher rated, probably even at the top of the RIO/Avant section.
-I actually didn't really enjoy Hand Cannot Erase, even though I enjoyed The Raven quite a bit.
-I love Frank Zappa, but out of his 100 or so albums, I'd say only about 3 (excluding archival whole live shows) are completely solid all the way through
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 22:30
Logan wrote:
A great album and artist, commonly, is one that strongly divides opinion.
amen....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 22:38
Atavachron wrote:
micky wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
I really want to like Rush, and would do so if the vocals weren't so damn annoying. I do like a few songs here and there (Limelight, for example) but it's in spite of the singing, not because of it.
I do wonder what they would sound like had they kept the band exactly as it is but added a singer who didn't make me cringe every time he/she opened his/her mouth.
why dear... it wouldn't have been Rush. Plenty of bands had chops... what set Rush apart were the grade school philosophy for dummies (and Rush fan) lyrics.. but in the end they eventually become endearing. who says Prog can not have humor.. even if not exactly what was intended to be funny...
then there is Geddy's voice... I couldn't imagine Rush being Rush.. or really all that notable to be honest without the great shrieking elf himself. Character man.. it is all about character..
And if we're being honest, most Rushies I knew made fun of Geddy's voice constantly, especially on the LPs where it's really bad like Fly by Night or 2112 .
oh for sure.. as I said.. there is humor in prog.. the best kind is the unintended kind. Geddy's vocals ARE Rush. Without those they are 3 good instrumentalists and one piss poor lyricist...
Rush is a ...well... it is like a perverse version of Yes. I can't listen to it without having a smile on my face.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: May 15 2016 at 22:39
jazz2896 wrote:
-I greatly dislike any prog that tends to add uplifting morals to music (this seems to be more of a modern trend), it usually comes off as quite cheesy.
-I think Beefheart needs to be higher rated, probably even at the top of the RIO/Avant section.
-I actually didn't really enjoy Hand Cannot Erase, even though I enjoyed The Raven quite a bit.
-I love Frank Zappa, but out of his 100 or so albums, I'd say only about 3 (excluding archival whole live shows) are completely solid all the way through
I do think Hand Cannot Erase is a step down from The Raven. I did love The Raven, but the last one is sort of meh... though I do like some songs from it very much.