In my book, this is one of the best albums ever done, specially if one considers one of the prettiest things EVER RECORDED in rock music ... REYNARDINE.

I always thought that this was a very important album when it first came out, and although things like Beatles and KC, JT and ELP were all the rage, in the end, this is one of the albums that I love the most and can sit back and die away with the easiest ... it is splendid and well done.

If I have a sad comment about it all, it is that Richard Thompson, never really did that style of guitar playing ever again, and I think that it might have been a sort of tribute to Sandy Denny, but he has never really said anything about her that I can remember, which suggests other issues, but the combination was totally amazing, and in that album, it is positively exciting and far out.

I, sometimes, think that PA has a total and complete aversion to things that are heavenly beautiful (sorry for the illusion!), because it does not have a rock beat and a recognized format that everyone can recognize, and in this process, folks like Peter Hammill, Roy Harper and total individualistic styles that are more represented by the words and the person behind them ... get more often than not taken for granted. It isn't about the singing style, or this or that ... it is something else that words can not describe, and only a few folks have that feeling, and can reach for the stars and bring it to you and I. 

Sandy Denny was one.

BTW, catch the Remastered last album of hers with FC and make sure you listen to "One More Chance" in the complete version and then die away in tears on her piano version demo ... such a beautiful voice and control of the wording ... and she also did it in Reynardine, which, btw had been written many years ago. Like over 100 years! But "One More Chance" is all Sandy Denny.

 

Actually, they're listed under "prog related" so I don't know what's up with Fairport here.

btw....Richard Thompson is a great guitarist who rarely gets mentioned and I should have mentioned him in the underrated guitarists thread.

Richard Thompson fan here, he just about can do no wrong, as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you, the sub-genre is a special favourite of mine.  You are probably correct in your estimation of it being somewhere in the middle.  The US is so large and, especially, when this was a new recording, there was much music which was only being heard regionally.  It almost seems as though the farther west it got from the UK,  less of it was heard, especially then.  We are lucky to know of it then and now.

Sorry to hear of the loss of your wife.  That is hard (as I know, having lost my husband last year), the hardest thing I've ever been through, and that is saying something.

Helps to have good music memories.

I so wish I'd been able to see them live, I'm jealous!  Maybe the current mix at some time, if they ever make it over here. 

Sandy Denny - one of the few singers who can truly make me cry, I love her voice more than any other and the interpretations are always breathtaking, full of feeling and meaning (and a great composer too)

Richard Thompson - I certainly agree he is underrated, the guy can use those 6 strings to good effect, that's for sure.

Liege & Lief - always a favorite of mine, but then I'm biased for FC since I take immense pleasure from almost everything they did .

Only saw them live once, in 1978, Sandy tragically already gone only a couple months before, for whom they dedicated a song, can't remember exactly which anymore (fool me !)

^ Right, and I proposed her once, not many time ago...

(I can concede her solo work is not that much prog)

Right you are!  Wish I'd noticed that.  Great eyes, there.

My eyes are not that good, but I am a language teacher by profession, and a bit of a grammar/spelling Nazi - which is odd, because I am not a native speaker of English. I am Micky's wife, by the way - we never got introduced properly. We met here on PA 12 years ago.

I, too, am usually the better spell-checker than spell-check, but this one did escape me.  I have dubbed the fiend who follows me around on the phone "Oddo-Correct." 

Again, well-met!  And looking forward to reading more of your perspectives, enjoying them so far.

Liege and Lief. Not Leaf. An Anglo-Saxon adjective meaning "as happily" or "as gladly".

And no, it is not overrated. It is perhaps the best British folk-rock album ever released.

Gawddddddd ... you just made my favorite INCREDIBLE STRING BAND album get scratched!

EARTH SPAN is a heck of an album, though I'm not sure that many folks would consider it "folk-rock", and its stories/songs are fantastic as well ... yeah ... the actor quoting Swinburne ... that's ISB for you ... and let the prog'rs go quote Mick!

It probably improved the sound. Or at least decreased the time betwixt the caterwauling. 

moshkito wrote: the actor quoting Swinburne ... that's ISB for you ... and let the prog'rs go quote Mick!

This.

A masterpiece. Should be prog-folk not prog-related. "Prog-related" undermines their influence on other subsequent prog-folk acts.

Richard Thompson was only 20 at the time; mind-boggling guitar work both electric and acoustic. Tam Lin sends shivers down the spine.

 

 

"Full article first published on blogcritics.org

Ever and anon, out of trauma and tragedy arises, phoenix-like, a thing of wonder from the ashes. In May of 1969, Fairport Convention's band van swerved off the road and down a steep embankment on the M-1 outside of Birmingham, England. Most of the passengers in the van were jettisoned through windows and doors. None escaped injury, but guitarist Richard Thompson's girlfriend, Jeannie Franklyn, died at the scene, and Fairport drummer Martin Lamble died en route to the hospital. Dark days indeed, for an up-and-coming band who had just tasted their first chart successes with the recent releases What We did on Our Holidays (released January 1969) and Unhalfbricking (released July 1969).

Though grief-stricken, the young band carried on, replacing the deceased Martin Lamble with drummer Dave Mattacks, and adding fiddler David Swarbick, who had gained prominence in the English folk movement with stellar appearances on several of legendary guitarist Martin Carthy's solo recordings. Swarbick had already played with Fairport on the traditional air "A Sailor's Life", which first appeared on the seminal folk album Unhalfbricking. It was the song "A Sailor's Life", and the inestimable contributions of Swarbick that gave the band a new direction, integrating traditional English themes with a progressive electric folk sound that was first to appear on Liege & Lief (U.S. release 1970).

Yet, it was not merely a tweaking of musical elements that gave the album its undeniable dark character. There is an unremitting melancholy that pervades the recording ? the emotional aftermath of a still-too-recent tragedy, perhaps ? and sad partings, death, murder, betrayal, and insanity are frequent themes therein; however, there is a mysticism and an ancient but ageless wonder that underlies the sadness ? a timeless sound that transcends both traditional and new material to a point where it is difficult to ascertain which songs were first sang in the 16th century and which were composed in 1969. It was from this remarkable synthesis of disparate elements that the landmark Liege & Lief album was created.

That Liege & Lief was eventually haled as the quintessential British folk-rock album, and recognized twice, in 2002 and again in 2006, as the Most influential Folk Album of all time by BBC Radio 2, is understandable, given the almost netherworldly quality of the recording. But what rankles is just how woefully underrated a folk-rock band Fairport Convention is in general terms. For instance, you most likely will not be seeing Fairport on a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame voting ballot anytime soon, which is not so much surprising as it is infuriating, given the well-noted nearsightedness and blatant biases of Hall of Fame electors.

The late, great Sandy Denny never got her due as a rock diva, perhaps because she was never quite as pretentious as Stevie Nicks or over-the-top as Janis Joplin, and remained loyal to her folk music roots. But her voice is beautiful and ethereally distinctive, and if you are just getting into Fairport Convention but find Denny's vocals eerily familiar, it is likely you recall hearing her stunning duet with Robert Plant on "The Battle of Evermore" from Led Zeppelin's Volume IV album. Guitarist extraordinaire Richard Thompson seems to be suffering the same fate as Denny, praised by those few who appreciate his remarkable career (whether with Fairport Convention or his series of great solo efforts with his ex-wife Linda Thompson), and yet ignored because he does not fit in the mainstream of rock music. Such is the inanity of the recording industry that non-entities like ABBA , Blondie, and The Bee-Gees receive accolades, while truly gifted bands such as Fairport, Jethro Tull, and King Crimson remain unheralded.

Curmudgeonly editorializing aside, Liege & Lief is an electrified bit of traditional folk heaven, with many of the songs dating from the 16th through the 19th centuries ("Tam Lin", "Reynardine", "Matty Groves", "The Deserter"). As alluded to previously, the original compositions "Come All Ye" (Denny and Hutchings), "Farewell, Farewell" (Thompson), and "Crazy Man Michael" (Thompson and Swarbick) meld so seamlessly with the older material that it can be quite hard to differentiate the two, which is a testament to the group's superb songwriting skills.

"Reynardine" is an eerie ballad about a werefox (yes, werefox, not werewolf) that slyly draws a young woman to her doom with fair words to hide its evil intent. Although the song dates to the early 19th century, it draws on the medieval tradition of Reynard the Fox, a cycle of allegorical stories about a tricky but ultimately nasty animal antihero, wedded with later incarnations of vampire and werewolf tales. The sustained menace in the subdued guitar work of Thompson and Sandy Denny's vocal treatment is superb here, and the barely- veiled malevolence of Reynardine is finally revealed in Denny's subtle phrasing of "Sun and dark she followed him/His teeth did brightly shine/And he led her up a-the mountains/Did that sly, bold Reynardine."

In the same vein, "Tam Lin", a 16th century Scottish ballad, invokes the netherworld with the folk tradition of an earthly knight held in thrall by Mab, the Queen of Faery. The none-too- tragic loss of the heroine's maidenhead, tithes to Hell, shapeshifting, and love conquering evil ensue, but it is the electric minstrelsy of the band, particularly Swarbick and Thompson, that sets this tune apart from being a fey and thoroughly nancified renaissance faire rendition of ye olde broadside ballade.

But the centerpiece of the traditional songs on Liege & Lief is the incomparable "Matty Groves", a 17th century murder ballad of adultery and revenge, where the dull-witted (but obviously well-hung) Matty Groves is seduced by Lord Darnell's wife ? just after Sunday prayers, no less. Lord Darnell finds out about the tryst, catches the two in bed, a duel is fought, and the unhappy lovers meet their deaths on the edge of Lord Darnell's bloody sword. Lord Darnell, ever one to keep up the appearance of status and privilege, then suggests ironically to his servants, "A grave, a grave?to put these lovers in/But bury my lady at the top, for she was of noble kin." Swarbick and Thompson finish the song with a rousing several-minute duel of fiddle and guitar.

Elsewhere on the album, Richard Thompson's burgeoning songwriting abilities are highly apparent, and for one of such tender years (20-years-old at the time of Liege & Lief), far more mature than his age belied. "Farewell, Farewell" seems to mirror the overall sad tone of the album, with Denny breathing the appropriate air of melancholy into the song. In addition, the tune "Crazy Man Michael" is a musical descent into madness (a la Edgar Allan Poe) which chronicles a troubled man's manic discussion with a prophetic raven.

Musically speaking, Fairport Convention's departure from the Byrd-like What We did on Our Holidays and the Dylanesque folk of Unhalfbricking is quite pronounced, and Dave Swarbick's influence is most notable on songs like "Matty Groves" and the foot- stomping "Medley" (which contains the reels and jigs "The Lark in the Morning", "Rakish Paddy", "Foxhunters' Jig", and "Toss the Feathers"). Swarbick's roughhewn and masculine fiddling indelibly marked Fairport's future recordings and acted as blueprint for such groups as Steeleye Span (which Ashley Hutchings formed after leaving Fairport) and Jethro Tull (several members of Fairport have also been in Tull at one time or another) to explore different perspectives of British folk.

However, as British reporter and rock critic Nigel Williamson wrote in The Times, "Not only did Fairport Convention invent English folk-rock but they effectively destroyed it, too. Nobody could top the electrified versions of trad ballads such as Tam Lin and Matty Groves on their classic, genre-defining Liege & Lief ? after that there was nowhere left to go." Williamson's statement is perceptive but perhaps a little bit too heavy on the hyperbole. What Liege & Lief did in effect was to destroy the continuance of Fairport's classic lineup, due primarily to musical differences. Sandy Denny feared that Fairport was heading too far down the road of traditionalism, which would adversely affect her songwriting, and she left to form the band Fotheringay; whereas, Ashley Hutchings felt that Fairport was not traditional enough (and thus his next band, Steeleye Span, featured more reels, jigs, and selections from Child's Ballads). After the next Fairport album, the live recording Full House (1970), Richard Thompson also left for a solo career. Still, Fairport Convention managed to soldier on with guitarist and co-founder Simon Nicol, Mattacks, Swarbick, and new bassist Dave Pegg.

Doors open, doors close. People come and people go. But between the final, sad partings and first, furtive hellos, sometimes a spark of genius glows, caused by the friction of farewells and felicitations. Liege & Lief was just such a fortuitous meeting in the hallway, a brief interlude with a profound effect on all who shared in the encounter.

                                                                                                             

The Dark Elf"

 

Now that's some education that's appreciated.

^ Great reading,  thank you both !!!

(hats off specially to you, Greg)

 

The second thing that still strikes me is that the songs do not have the standard pop or rock verse, chorus, break, verse, chorus arrangements. Something that you will not find on follow up albums, at least to this degree, like Full House and Angel Delight. The musicianship, as always, is first rate and Sandy's vocals are absolutely mesmerizing and stellar. It's no wonder that producer Joe Boyd pushed her so hard to pursue a solo career. Fairport was indeed a one in a million band with this type of talent and it's no surprise to me that all this talent couldn't be contained within just one grouping at that particular time. Worthy of 5 stars? Why not? What else sounds like this and has inspired so many that followed?

Seconded.

Note: The word lief is still very common in modern Dutch. The spelling and meaning are identical.

 

Edit: It's time to petition the powers that be. Bob and Ken, are you listening?

Born to play guitar, that one.  That was what I meant by how young everyone was.  Such an inspired recording.

I agree with the production, SteveG.  It sounds almost like a live recording.  But it is still a phenomenal and unprecedented work in it's scope and virtuosity of musicianship (again, the ages of these people!).  

The songs not following the standard arrangements is also due to (at least the ones that are) reworkings of old ballads etc, which, thankfully, didn't have to follow those kinds of rules.    Longer attention spans were at work, sort of like the longer attention spans of prog fans, perhaps.

The strange times were just beginning....  

Sean Trane wrote: ClemofNazareth wrote: kenethlevine wrote: Quinino wrote: It suddenly came to my mind that Sandy Denny is not among us (and should ! imo ) We have the Strawbs, Fotheringay, Fairport - why not the lovely lady that sang and composed for these bands ? Has this already been considered by the team? only Strawbs are in a full fledged prog genre, if you can call prog folk full fledged.  Fairport and Fotheringay are prog related, and Sandy's solo material, from what I've heard would be prog-related related.  Bob or Hugues may have a better idea if she has been proposed before, but I would bump her to the admin team if anything I checked my list and don't believe she's been proposed before but IMHO her solo work would fit as prog-related at best.  Technically she only had three solo albums, the first which was s/t and pretty traditional, maybe could be considered folk revival but nothing more.  The other two were kind of pop-flavored with a little bit of Bakersfield country mixed in.  I have two of the three and wouldn't consider either of them to be Prog Folk. Love Sandy Denny but IMHO the closest she came to prog folk was her stint with Strawbs and possibly "Battle of Evermore". not aware of most of her discography (only Grassman/ravens album) , but I'd tend to aqgree with that.

Quinino wrote: I happened to notice we have Bert Jansch, Pentangle, Bert & John but not John Renbourn himself - isn't the man worth to be given shelter ? I don't know, maybe you've dealt with this before, sorry if that's the case.

 

Edit: Excuse my French.

 

Sacre blue.

Yes, but Dylan never made a song like this.

Not ignoring you or anything.   Just this darn work getting in the way!

Martin, as-tu entendu Moving Hearts?  C'etait une autre supergroupe forme par Christy Moore apres Planxty.  Merveilleux

Dylan, did, however write original lyrics that were epic stories (Highway 61 Revisited song and LP included)...and he did turn the acoustic folk world on it's ear at Newport.

FP didn't write the lyrics to Matty Groves...but they sure did a wonderful rendition of it and changed the way it had been done forever.

You can see the lineage for both with the long ballad format...interesting discussion this has been.

For the time that it came in, YES, it is progressive. There was nothing like it around at the time.

Same thing for Highway 61.

However, when listening to it, with TODAY'S ears, nothing is anything that we think it should be because its fires and importance has gone out. You may think of it all as crap, but the insults and quantity of stuff that Bob put up with when he started using an electric guitar in the sacred folk churches, was downright abusive ... and guess what is remembered today? None of the idiots that complained about an electric guitar.

I really, would like to see some of us, look at these albums with different eyes and ears ... the album is VERY progressive, considering how un-conventional at least 3 or 4 of the songs were, which would make it more than half the album. But, since we do not seem to appreciate the talent and differences of the time and place, now we rate it as cheap crap and some gawd-awful designation that is not even close as to what the music, AND the BAND, were about.

We, really need to improve on that folks ... please re-evaluate your thoughts on some of these albums. Gawd, at least someone is not listing Stravinsky as psychedelic anymore!

 

In the wake of the 1960s, a Folk revival started on both sides of the Atlantic, and got quickly linked with a protest movement, not always, but often linked to more left-wing tendencies, which did not sit well with the authorities. BOB DYLAN, JOAN BAEZ, WOODY GUTHRIE, JOHN DENVER, BUFFY STE-MARIE, but also the FARINA couple Richard and Mimi for the US and SHIRLEY COLLINS and EWAN McCOLL (mentor of http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7236" rel="nofollow -
As DYLAN turned electric with his Highway 61 Revisited album, much to the dislike of purists who yelled for treason, Folk Rock was born, opening the floodgates for younger artists to turn on the electricity. As DYLAN soon abandoned to style to create Country Rock with his next album, his British equivalent Scotsman DONOVAN stayed true to Folk Rock. In the US, THE BYRDS were the main promoters of the style by now, culminating with the superb "Eight Miles High" track with a lengthy (for the times) guitar solo of almost one minute. But countless other bands on the west coast, such as LOVE, JEFFERSON AIRPLANE (and later its spin-off HOT TUNA), GRATEFUL DEAD, QUICKSILVER MESSENGER SERVICE, http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3781" rel="nofollow - - TIM BUCKLEY all started in the folk rock realm. Even San Fran's http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2667" rel="nofollow - - INCREDIBLE STRING BAND (led by Scots Palmer and Williamson) with their two highly influential albums "5000 Layers Or The Spirit Of The Onion" & "The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter" and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2127" rel="nofollow - - FAIRPORT CONVENTION and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=589" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3679" rel="nofollow - - TYRANOSAURUS REX (actually a duo of Steven Took and Marc Bolan) , JOHN MARTYN etc.

However, the real angular album that will lead to further change of Folk Rock is http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2162" rel="nofollow -
Groups like http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1745" rel="nofollow - - QUINTESSENCE relied on eastern Indian music influences and, sometimes, medieval tones. Other groups like the weird http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=912" rel="nofollow - - TREES , http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1596" rel="nofollow - - FOREST , the superb http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1810" rel="nofollow - - TRADER HORNE , http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2439" rel="nofollow - - FOTHERINGAY , http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2757" rel="nofollow - - TIR NA NOG were out to break new ground but with less commercial success as their predecessor. By 1972, all of the glorious precursors bands were selling fewer records and had problems renewing themselves and a newer generation of groups was relying in a more Celtic jigs or really traditional sounds. Such as http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1509" rel="nofollow - - STEELEYE SPAN , http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=698" rel="nofollow - - SPRIGUNS OF TOLGUS . Although http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=418" rel="nofollow - - TIM BUCKLEY and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=4939" rel="nofollow - - HOELDERLIN (and their fantastic debut album), http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=591" rel="nofollow - - OUGENWEIDE , http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2099" rel="nofollow - - WITTHUSER & WESTRUPP were exploring German folk while http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1364" rel="nofollow - - SILOAH and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1087" rel="nofollow - - LOS JAIVAS (very bent upon Andean Indian music) and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3251" rel="nofollow - - HARMONIUM and so many more. In France, many groups were out for folk rock such as http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2846" rel="nofollow - - TANGERINE , and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1337" rel="nofollow - - TRIANA , http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=641" rel="nofollow - - HAIZEA were the head of the movement once the Franco regime fell apart after his death.


There is also a very important medieval music influences dimension in some groups as the term Medieval Folk was also mentioned for a while but apparently dropped by musicologists. Among the UK groups are obviously http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=135" rel="nofollow - - GENTLE GIANT and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1745" rel="nofollow - - MALICORNE and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=970" rel="nofollow - - ALGARNAS TRADGARD and http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1314" rel="nofollow -

 

It looks as if PA's Sean Train (Hugues Chantraine) views L&L as a type of proto prog folk. If that genre doesn't exist then it can only fit into prog folk. The PA prog folk team is shut down for the present time but I wanted to keep this in print for the future. Just in case.

For once, I like this definition of Prog Folk ... it is well versed and shows that it was not just a fly by night operation in England, and that it was alive all over Europe, as it had been for hundreds of years. Both Portugal, and Spain (that I am aware of, but can not give you examples), have a massive history of folk music, and with its variations due to dancing and playing styles, in many ways it was always "progressive" since every generation adapted it to its own ways.

It has been said, and there is a comment on one film that is ... weird, if not interesting ... about the line "bye, bye, blackbird", that supposedly was a comment about the "horrible" English troubadours always doing different and weird ways of old songs ... and the kings in France did their target practice on them! My guess is that the "prog folk" thing did not go very far in France and Italy, although I am not sure that one could say that about Brittany, which had a very wide range of music and troubadour music, which Alan Stivell embraced, for many other reasons as well.

BTW, even though it has some different sources, Alan Stivell should be mentioned in the Prog Folk definition, even if marginal. His lyrics and traditional's, are no different than any other Prog Folk version of anything. But the fact that he is political at times, unlike the new age idealistic hip feathers by a few others, is something that is probably NOT enjoyed or appreciated ... but saying that a lot of Folk music is not political is a gross shame and one can go back 100 in America alone for stuff that was highly political and even some that became very well known ... fighting for the rights of workers, a Dam, and many other things. Even then, that was "Progressive", since it was so different and it was trying to come up to the times with the day's sentiments, instead of yesterday's ideas.

Still a nice write up ... Mosh approved! (Hehehehe!)

I agree re Alan Stivell, as far as Prog Folk, certainly.  He did electrify it a bit, after all.  Not as fond of his more recent forays (I wish I could say I was, because I respect his contributions to the harp, acoustic and electric), but thought that the early 70's pieces such as "Pop Plinn," and "King of the Fairies," was magnificent.

Right you are!  

I think that Alan Stivell got stuck in a timewarp ... after gaining a RCA RED SEAL for his great album RENAISSANCE OF THE CELTIC HARP, I think he decided that it didn't matter what anyone thought, and with Dan Ar Bras, he fashioned a nice combination, that even involved rock music, some folks stuff -- and here I think is where people don't like him -- his voice is not a "singer" per se, and has more roots in a type of rap/spoken voice than it does as a singing voice, and since it did not sing about swans and fairies (other than the English huns, etc!), it was never going to be appreciated by new age folks, and it has continued since then. Still hard to see, and HARSH to not see, comments and discussion on many of these albums, which ought to clarify how different things are for so many folks. Alan Stivell is not about top ten, other than one album, which I think was done for an English speaking market, but it was too late to be appreciated ... AGAIN is a magnificent album, and progressive ... goodness ... 

Thank you for your effort on his behalf...Yes, acquired taste, just like Bert Jansch's voice.  I am also a fan of Dan Ar Braz and Tri Yann.

Hope you decide to review some of their work if you would like