& 

Let's have some discussion on this not-so-often mentioned Italiano Prog entity! Thoughts? Likes? Dislikes?  Is this Italian ELP? GO!!!

Personally i don't get why they are so popular.

They were good of course but pretty average compared to a lot of other bands.

I much prefer PFM and Banco but i find almost every other Italian prog band of the era better such as:

Museo Rosenbach, Maxophone, Area, Il Balleto Di Bronzo, Osanna, Quelle Vecchia Locanda, Alphataurus, Biglietto Per L'Inferno, Semiramis, Jumbo, Metamorfosi, Goblin, Alusa Fallax.

That's right. I'd rather to listen to any of those bands over Le Orme any day. Too mellow without enough rock for my tastes but i do own the first three albums and they are definitely decent albums.

Hi,

I' don't think that Le Orme were much about "rock" as they were about trippy stuff and some instrumental materials ... but the combination of it all was very pretty and anyone thinking that this is like ELP, is not listening at all ... because there is no relation whatsoever.

Le Orme, became closer to "rock" in the Smogmagica album which ended up including a lead guitar, something they did not have before ... and it was a bit off the track for them, but they went right back to what they did first ... the fun stuff in Smogmagica did not help anyone relate and understand what the band was about.

All in all, an excellent band, that deserves a lot more credit than they do, and are simply not appreciated here because they do not have a "recognizable" sound that we can compartmentalize. And one can never underestimate the length of this band on the stage and albums ... they just won't stop and that says a lot about what they do ... that is appreciated somewhere, except PA because it does not "fit" the bizarre definition of the mold, and they do not go around showing off a blue guitar and a pink drum!

Excellent band, at least during those golden years.

neither sounds like Le Orme. 

No, but I like them anyway and they're both spaghetti prog bands too.

I like Le Orme, but not the other two. 

there are many other interesting Italian bands than those two you mentioned. 

Maybe I'll create a Spaghetti Prog Italia YouTube channel, then I'll discover a lot more Italian bands.  

it's called RPI (Rock Progressivo Italiano), can you think beyond cliches or stereotypes? 

NOT APPRECIATED HERE? WHAT? Le Orme has two albums in the top 250. They are one of the most popular RPI bands on the site. This is just my opinion. I think they are a bit too simplistic for my tastes. I like the Italian prog bands that really get wild and reckless. I do like them but they just don't rank as highly for me. Their albums just don't reach the potential i feel they were capable of reaching.

kenethlevine wrote: to me the Progday 1997 performance of Felona blows the studio version out of the water

Cool. Wish there was a live album. Is there a YouTube video of it?

Looking on youtube,  they have the performance in 2 parts

Hi,

This is what I mean ... how can you define "potential" for a band, or your children? 

You're creating (in my seeing!) something of a "style" and "position" that I am not sure any band out there can ever reach.

Each band is like a person, and you can only hope that they express themselves well and clearly, and Le Orme, have done that and then some! 

As AC would say ... "potential is crap!"

The only problem with that statement is that Le Orme did not play Progday in 1997. The only Italian band to play that year was Finisterre. 

Well, all those other bands i listed that i prefer reached their potential. I'm a musician myself so i guess i hear things differently. Certain artists just feel to me like they were holding back for the sake of popularity. Le Orme is one of those. There are others. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

But yeah if you haven't heard them give Felona E Sorona a spin. Pretty much proof that you don't need to understand the lyrics of a concept album for the music to take you on a fantastic journey. 

And no way in heck do they sound like ELP to me. Emerson was a super flashy player and filled his work with all kinds of pyrotechnics and frills and sound effects that would seem to come at you as forcefully as a master lead guitar shredder. Le Orme's keys are much closer to Tony Banks'. A bit softer, in a way more sophisticated (not to knock Emerson's skills), and more focused on atmosphere and composition than flashiness. The drums and bass aren't boisterous enough either, and Aldo's voice is soft and sweet all the time whereas Lake often added a bit of bite or humor into his tone.

I've ordered their two most popular, PA Chart Topping recordings from the start of this thread.

I have so many prog CDs from this year that are still wrapped/sealed/unopened sshhh.....

Their first five albums from the debut "Ad Gloriam" to "Contrappunti" are all well worth owning. Le Orme certainly deserves a place in prog history. I just find their albums a bit disjointed and underwhelming. For example on "Felona e Sorona" the momentum is rather slow and tedious for a concept album and only really comes to life on the closing "Ritorno al Nulla" which is perhaps the best track they crafted in their career. Unfortunately these stellar prog moments are rare and the lush folk motifs are the norm. Nothing wrong with that for those who prefer it but something just doesn't click for me with Le Orme like it does other Italian greats. Enjoy!

Also Todd perfecrtly expressed how I feel about the group:

Hi,

I'm not sure that Le Orme was after the big hype star and fame, EVER. I do think that they had a very loyal and appreciating audience that always got a chance to see them and appreciate the great music.

I am a writer and my dad was a writer and very famous ... fame and fortune is not what most of us think and I believe that folks like Le Orme, kinda have seen enough hype everywhere to know that it was not worth it, and they were not going to "change" simply to satisfy some ideal about fame and fortune. You do what you like best and how you want to do it ... you don't make changes in your music simply because for 5 minutes you thought ... the audience will want this here and a solo behind it ... that is NOT how you and most people define their music ... although I do question this on top of the pops material ... continually formatted and the drumming and style never changes! To me, that is satisfying the public ... as cheaply as possible!

I would rather think that some bands that have been around a long time do get tired, and this is how I felt about GENESIS, YES, JETHRO TULL and some other bands ... not sure I want to include KING CRIMSON in that list as they made sure that their material was clean, well done and strong ... and then ... add 2 more drummers to the fun ... none of us thought it would work ... guess what? It was a magnificent show! And the music did not sound "tired".

I would imagine that the "newer" material by Le Orme is not "as good" as the early material, but really, that is a jaded view, since Guy Guden ripped through so many copies of this band's albums for many years, including those in my collection! It always "fit" ... in the middle of everything else, like so many other bands that he is known for in his early shows ... hundreds of them ... and I don't think any of them did something for their "audience's tastes" ... they did it for themselves ... it's WHAT AN ARTIST DOES!

kenethlevine wrote: I think there is a live album out there somewhere, but it's a live album of Progfest (sorry not progday) not of Le Orme, that has various artists who performed .

Really cool performance

Speaking of F&S, I wonder if Frank Bornemann knew this album before coming up with Planets/Time To Turn. The concept is pretty much the same.

good question - 2 of my favourite Eloy albums

I mean yeah if you're all about the flash and pizzazz Le Orme is not your band and Florian is not your Le Orme album. I'd go to Maxophone and Banco for any pyrotechnic needs, with a Il Balletto Di Bronzo for dessert.

For symphonic prog i love bombast. I'm perfectly fine with tenderness in prog folk and more easy listening styles of music. Le Orme is doing fine without me salivating over their every move

so much music and so little time 

That album Darwin! by BDMS is incredible IDK how I missed that one for so long!

Agreed. Jacula and Antonius Rex are closer to Gothic Rock.

my three awesome RPI discoveries

Quella Vecchia Locanda

Semiramis

Locanda delle Fate

About 20 years ago when the Gnosis website was getting rolling and PA was just a gleam in Max's eye, the Gnosis raters had as their highest-rated album something called Darwin! from a band I'd never heard of before. Rated even higher than my beloved Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Rush, Gentle Giant, etc. Alongside it was another album, Per Un Amico by another strange sounding name.

I had to try them out, so I ordered them online (another pretty new phenomenon!) and quickly put the Darwin! disc in. I was blown away by L'Evoluzione--that voice, that fire, those keyboards--wow! Per Un Amico had a similar effect, but this time it was the gentle melodies that drew me in.

Rock Progressivo Italiano has been my passion ever since! I still love the others and always will, but I seek out anything Italian from that era I can find. So many incredible gems, so much depth! I am so grateful for that discovery.

Aldo's voice is just sublime!!!

From Collage to Contrappunti, Le Orme was as good as anybody!!!

tszirmay wrote: My thoughts on Le Orme? Ok secret divulging time: Aldo Tagliapietra played at my wedding , summer 2019, it was a present from my best man, the creator behind Consorzio Acqua Potabile , Maurizio Venegoni. I spoiled the surprise because I recognized Aldo immediately , which turned out to be a very cool moment and the serenade was all night long. Amazing night!

Dude, I heard Darwin! for the first time just two days ago (I know), and it immediately clicked. After enough prog you start to recognize the gems after about a minute in. This one is an absolute, must have piece of prog rock right up there with Per Un Amico IMHO.

The smoothness of execution, the tone, presence, cadence - it's all next level despite somehow being 1972.

Masterful.

Hey, better late than never! I'm envious that you have so many amazing discoveries ahead of you!

If I'm honest, it's like my tastes are driving right into all the Italian Prog I overlooked in my excitement with the symphonic classics for the last decade or more. Now it's all clicking. I credit that to having grown more as a musician myself! As my personal understanding of theory and composition improves, so too does my appreciation for how insane these bands were at such an early stage in the golden era!

You don't need to understand music to appreciate any artist, of course, but I find it's like being well-versed with writing or language; you appreciate a top-tier artist that much more, and what it means to you, it ultimately all that matters in the long run anyway! 

Hi,

Honestly, this was the kind of thing that turned me off ... I regretted not seeing ELP, mostly because of the history by folks around me telling me how far out it was to see the organ flip and him playing from the backside of the audience and then he using a knife to hold keys down.

In the end, the organ thing is fine, the backwards thing weird and fun, and the knife ... it was used to create a sustain between a couple of keys ... it was not meant to be thought of as some kind of this or that.

Listening to ELP and Emerson's music (specially as done by Rachel Flowers), shows what a great bunch of compositions a lot of their material was ... and they played it well. Some folks didn't (and still don't) like how Greg Lake did some things ... but all it tells you is that a "regular" note by note singer, would not have fit in this group at all!

The music itself is excellent. And seeing it being interpreted by an orchestra and others, is fantastic ... not even the Beatles has created such glorious material for a concert. It was all songs for them ... not here ... but as I said in another thread, it was a time for color, and far out stuff for our over indulged brains full of something or other ... and a lot of things were far out ... so one likes the bombastic tone here, and then Ozziie kills a bat ... and everyone thinks its cool! Sick!!!!

I don't think that "Bombastic" is important ... and then you can watch HIROMI UEHARA and how she plays is BOMBASTIC .... and insane ... and you love every minute of it ... ohh wait ... she's not "progressive" ... but the performance applies ... and she (kinda) makes someone like Keith Jarrett seem mechanical by comparison in the playing style ... she's all over the place!

I don't like to think of "bombastic" as important ... one of the biggest (and most famous) flute player (classical!!!) was always the darling of the concert circuit until one day he went on stage at the Hollywood Bowl with a jazz flutist that blew him off the stage ... and this guy was not bombastic ... he was just plain good and great and the other idiot was shown to be a fraud!

And, of course, many bands try to be "bombastic" because the fans like it and they will "remember" it for a long time ... sad that for that minute no one gives a merde about the music at all !!!! Pathetic really ... and you are a musician, and you ought to know that is the worst feeling in your stomach!

I'm really, really enjoying this one. I'm wondering why I haven't noticed it being talked about around here as much, or maybe I just overlooked it, or a combination of both lol .

Hi,

Nice ... I'm not sure that it is on the same vein as the great trip bands, like PFM, BANCO and even LE ORME, but the music is nice, and it might end up needing a few more listens. The top "three", have had for many years a sense of musical quality that is not about rock'n'roll, but about the quality of their own music and the care they take to create it right ... the recent PFM and BANCO have shown that the quality is still there even though it is not the "same" band per se ... and Vittotio is not Francesco. And we all miss the original PFM with its great harmonies and musical design ... truly enjoyable.

I'll listen to more of it, and find it just a small bit influenced by PG in the vocals ... and it takes the "individuality" of the music away for me ... but it's still fine, although I have a tendency to think that the musical passages are unfocused and do not get the theme of the whole piece as strong as it should. But, that might be my ears not being familiar with the band ... I'll hear some more ... though I am not convinced that this is a "top band".

It's brilliant! There's a band that should've had a prolific career. Do you have the version with the two bonus tracks at the end? Cono Di Gelato isn't very prog but it's so pretty it's wroth having imo.

Pure genius. RIP Sergio Lattuada. Taken from us way too early...

EDIT: Just found and purchased a sealed, imported copy of the Maxophone CD from Italy via eBay! 

Has arrived! 

Hi,

Glad that you now have it ... but in my years ... I have to tell you that hearing it and having had it played (by Guy Guden in his show MANY times!!!) on the air, was more valuable of an experience ... the band sounded really good and had some neat material, and was always a big part of the show as were other Italians.

There is a difference hearing it now, than there was then. The music sounded fresh, new and neat ... hearing it today in the middle of all hundreds of thousands of choices, has made for a sort of washing of their music to the point where it no longer seems as strong and as important as it was then!

It's just a weird feeling ... for me ... rarely does a band that I have not heard in the 70's (specially!) as an example, grab me, and it has nothing to do with them being good or not ... the "freshness" of the material is not standing up as much as it probably did then in A DIFFERENT TIME, than it does today.

Still a wonderful album, and I prefer the Italian to the PH translation (I think it was his translation) on the English version!

Le Orme together with Pfm and Banco are considered the three most important and famous groups of Italian prog. Their albums are thinner and shorter, however, than those of the other two groups, and never contain suites, and therefore do not appear at the same level of quality. 

Felona and Sorona is considered their most mature work being a concept album, 

here you can read my review:  http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=2135813" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=2135813

but in my opinion from a strictly musical point of view Collage is the real masterpiece. 

In my opinion, Uomo di Pezza is an excellent album, but slightly minor (same for Contrappunti). 

Here my review on Uomo di Pezza:  http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=2135639" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=2135639

Collage is also the first real Italian prog album, being from 1971, while the debut of Pfm and Banco was in 1972. Le Orme immediately had a great commercial success, comparable only to that of Pfm, but in Italy, where the prog music was linked to the student movement and left-wing politics, Le Orme have never been fully appreciated by prog fans, as their lyrics are often linked to religious themes, treated with delicacy and poetry.

The musicians of Pfm, Banco and Area are left-wing politics oriented.

Here my review on Collage:  http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=2135034" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=2135034

Two other curiosities: Pagliuca, the keyboardist, was often helped by the classical composer Gian Piero Reverberi, and together with him they did a different operation than that of Emerson Lake & Palmer: while Emerson was trying to play classical music in a rock way, the Pagliuca did the opposite, they tried to play rock as if it were classical music, and in my opinion the compositional level of the keyboard parts of Le Orme was of a higher level than that of EL&P, and resembled that of Quatermass more.

I hear you but I feel you could say that about literally any band, genre, any generation. All those bands were better live, or having been heard pre-high fi era where you only had analog amplifiers, records, and live scenarios. For me music is timeless, and this type of prog proves it. As a psychologist, I find it interesting that several posts appear to want to either dissuade or marginalize another person's interest in a style, yet this place is flooded with repeat polls of the same types of bands, whom by your same logic here, aren't worth discussing MORE so than Le Orme, simply due to their frequency of discussion in the first place.

Le Orme is fantastic and it shouldn't matter when, where, or why you find or enjoy ANY music.
 

Hi,

Frenetic Zetetic wrote: ... I hear you but I feel you could say that about literally any band, genre, any generation. All those bands were better live, or having been heard pre-high fi era where you only had analog amplifiers, records, and live scenarios.  ... [/CLOSE] That was not what I was trying to say and I think that you added more to it than it was there. It doesn't have to do with the digital/analog bologna, either. At the time, the only thing there was on the radio was a lot of top ten and the hits. FM radio provided something a bit more (later called "classic" to give you an idea) and it was during that time that at least one person in Southern California was playing Le Orme a lot ... and the sound of it was nice, fresh and pretty.  Today, as an idea, I just heard some of the new stuff from Transatlantic, and I couldn't help thinking ... that there is no freshness, though the obvious quality of the musicianship makes it look like it is better than it really is. Frenetic Zetetic wrote: ... For me music is timeless, and this type of prog proves it. ... [/close] I think you misread what I wanted to say ... psychologists are "known" to follow the book, not be with the "patient". (hehehe!!!) ... it had to do with listening/hearing new things ... and my feeling about accepting it is still the same (person!), though it is a different time. I, likely, have more classical music in my collection than you do, and I came from a house that had over 2K albums of classical music (at least 50 operas!) from the earliest and I even added some Tomita, and Tangerine Dream to it.  Nowadays, almost none of the "recordings" of a lot of classical music are not half as good as Karajan, Mr. Leinsdorf, or even Leonard Bernstein ... and that is similar to what you are suggesting, with the difference that these days there are no conductors that make the music "come alive" ... no surprise that at the same time, a lot of the "new" music is not as strong and great as we hope to find ... and the most we can appreciate is the re-hashing of Transatlantic (for lack of a better example) and such ... but for me, listening to any Le Orme, all the way past SMOGMAGICA IS A FANTASTIC LISTEN, that still stand out. Music is timeless ... as you say, but it takes the folks of today to help it stay so ... and rock music in its commercial state, is re-hashing the same sound and bands, instead of the music that was different, fresh and exciting, like Le Orme, Banco and PFM were at that time ... when everyone was sucging on BS, DP, and a couple of bands that had OK stuff, but were now mostly copying themselves and their "fame".  For the record so you get a better idea, I have one BS album, no DP albums (might get one of the orchestral ones), and only 3 JT albums (TAAB, PP and MIAG), and my listening in those days was already attuned to a lot of French, Spanish, Italian, German and other European bands ... that many people are just discovering now. You know what it feels like ... ohhh man, I just heard Wagner or Verdi! And all you can say/do is ... ohhhh !!!!  TIMELESS means that it was always there in the first place! Not that it was discovered today, and that is not to say that your ability or tastes didn't hear that earlier, until now (for example) ... but for many of us that were there, you kinda represented exactly what prevented so many folks from listening ... because it was different, and not the "norm" of patterns and recognizable music. [QUOTE=Frenetic Zetetic] ...  As a psychologist, I find it interesting that several posts appear to want to either dissuade or marginalize another person's interest in a style, yet this place is flooded with repeat polls of the same types of bands, whom by your same logic here, aren't worth discussing MORE so than Le Orme, simply due to their frequency of discussion in the first place. ... And I marvel at your inability to see what it is I'm getting at. I never have set out to dissuade or marginalize something, specially when history has already show it to have been there ... what it the point of doing that to history, unless you want to make some kind of point to support your contention and thinking that in the past everyone should ignore Beethoven and Mozart! The "frequency" is another story that has more to do with one's ability to learn more about the "history" of it all, than it does with anything else ... when it is simply (yet again) about your favorite song, THAT is marginalizing the music to just songs, and dissuading people from believing that these were the artists of our time ... because it isn't "serious" music ... it's a pop song! [QUOTE=Frenetic Zetetic] ... Le Orme is fantastic and it shouldn't matter when, where, or why you find or enjoy ANY music. ...

(sorry ... issues with the quotes!!! All relies in Italics)

This one is certainly a tough nut to crack. It took me a long time to finally recognize it as a masterpiece.

RPI was and is surprisingly consistent in high quality. There are some duds of course but WOW!

Really, wow! VERY interesting to me; this one clicked immediately on first listen, lol! It was similar magic to hearing PFM Per Un Amico for the first time. First track, it just clicks. This has everything I intuitively reach for regarding progressive rock during this era! Italia!!! 

I'm loving the album, so I'll most certainly seek out the live version! 

something nice , a live 2005 concert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KvicTsdGY" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KvicTsdGY

Absolutely love it, all songs, since I know it (mid 90's).

I hear some don't see it as much "RPI" as other bands/albums. I can see why, also considering the english version of this album, but am perfectly fine with that; and maybe that is also why my other favorite from PFM is 'Chocolate Kings'.

Here I put together some posts I've made about Maxophone (sorry about the auto reference =P I did it just for the fun! most are very recent, but surprised myself to find the two bottom-most are from 2006! 🧐  highlighted my favorites or the most directly related):

Amazing and perfectly timed; my Maxophone disc arrived yesterday and I LOVE the packaging, booklet, and all the little stuff that came with it! This is most certainly a sleeper prog band and they nail that nostalgic sound my brain craves. I absolutely love everything about this band and release.

I'm digging through your links now! 

On my part, I'm going to put up with the rest of the thread..  

Uomo di Pezza I know and like it, though not listen very often (that'll change today :P), Felona I see it widely mentioned and praised on PA; each time I take a look but still doesn't get me completely. Bummer they're not so readily available.. (youtube if any) I have a CD player but don't use it very much.. it becomes a mess and is not as "mobile".. so is sort of a cycle: to buy me a CD (eons I don't) I have to absolutely like it.. but I can't listen it too much on the net.. and if I could.. maybe I wouldn't buy it.  🤷  

(Perhaps my head keeps wired on my 20's on this subject..    it would make total sense buying a few rare gems now even to assess them. You get them on cd or vinyl? curious about that booklet, it must be a beauty, and the Maxophone cover art, sort of watercolor-like, on a kind of swamp at very first morning... Ahh.. beautiful).