Has The Archives lost it's way?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131622
Printed Date: June 12 2025 at 05:06 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Has The Archives lost it's way?
Posted By: deafmoon
Subject: Has The Archives lost it's way?
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:06
Prog Archives was always only about Progressive Music. It's been carved up to genres, to satisfy diversity, and that's fine. So we all live with Kansas, Styx, Deep Purple & Saga to be welcomed on this site. Fine, I may not agree, but there are some splinters here and there with many, many bands that are nowhere near progressive music.
After being away for awhile, I return to see The Doors are included on this site. I fail to see (exception of Ray Mazareks The Golden Scarab) the Doors as being Progressive. I lived their heyday and they were then and still are a Pop band.
If you need to keep growing and expanding, maybe merge Jazz Music Archives into this site and just label it, The Music Archives.
------------- Deafmoon
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Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:14
Another negative thread, so what's new... You said "many bands that are nowhere near progressive music" - maybe give us some examples.
The Doors are proto-prog, some think they were important in the formation of progressive music, with their jams and suites and theatricality. So were the early days of Deep Purple (Rod Evans era).
Styx are prog-related, so no harm done.
As for Kansas and Saga, I got no problem with them being on PA.
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Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:24
Back in the day, I used to be in a band called 'The Hinges'.
We opened for The Doors.
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:34
I thought that was The Handles?
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:40
DeafMoon, it's not like you've been gone that long, 2022.... The Doors debut has a review from January 1, 2007, and so it would have them been discussed and been prepared likely in 2006, the year we both, and Cristi too (a popular year) joined PA. I remember supporting the addition back then. That Doors ship, a crystal one, has long since sailed, the best time to express ones concerns on that addition would have been before it was added, so in 2006.
As said, the Doors is included in Proto-Prog, which has its own definition and way of working. Some would rather not have that category and Prog Related, but then you also would have to convince the site's owner, M@x, to have it removed.
And it depends on what you mean by Progressive, terms evolve (I do think the Doors made progressive music, that is an aspect). You mention being pop, well progressive pop is a common term, and The Doors are staples of classic rock radio. And I might argue that if we want to be a "Progressive Music" site, then we should consider Stockhausen and Xenakis etc. etc. I'm just one of the PA babies who was not born until the early 70s, so I was not there for the earliest part of the scene or aware of Prog until past its golden age, but I think it was good for this site to encompass more than a narrow Prog stream. Of course the owner wanted traffic, not talking the band, and some additions it must have been thought might draw in people.
I support having Proto-Prog and Prog-Related and in having a wider variety of music under the Prog umbrella that goes beyond a traditionalist, narrow view.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:42
Certainly proto-prog. It's daft to think they weren't forward thinking and progressive, both in various compositions and lyrical content. It's even sillier to consider the Doors simply as a "pop" band. Here are a few examples:
The Soft Parade - check out the number of time signature changes, and the shifts in musical styles. Albinoni's Adagio in G minor - unreleased from the Waiting for the Sun sessions. A fabulous adaptation of this composition. Riders on the Storm - the jazz elements are quite clear. LA Woman - Again, time changes are relevant, as is the poeticism of the piece When the Music's Over - an intro based on Herbie Hancock, and 11 minutes of improv. The End - yeah, pop. But only if Oedipus had Spotify.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:49
The Doors Light My Fire in a way few other bands do and I Love Them Madly, and although I agree in principle that they're not remotely progressive, they're not a "pop band" either. At The End of the Night though, they would be Strange Days indeed if The Doors were ever removed from ProgArchives. I'm glad to say that would only ever happen if and When the Music's Over, and that would be The End, my friend.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:07
Saga ? They may be cheesy but they're prog.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:10
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I thought that was The Handles? |
Didn't they eventually change their name to the Knobs?
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:13
The Dark Elf wrote:
Certainly proto-prog. It's daft to think they weren't forward thinking and progressive, both in various compositions and lyrical content. It's even sillier to consider the Doors simply as a "pop" band. Here are a few examples:
The Soft Parade - check out the number of time signature changes, and the shifts in musical styles. Albinoni's Adagio in G minor - unreleased from the Waiting for the Sun sessions. A fabulous adaptation of this composition. Riders on the Storm - the jazz elements are quite clear. LA Woman - Again, time changes are relevant, as is the poeticism of the piece When the Music's Over - an intro based on Herbie Hancock, and 11 minutes of improv. The End - yeah, pop. But only if Oedipus had Spotify. |
I've heard Spanish Caravan referred to as prog also. Light My Fire could be on the list too if for no other reason than the long organ solo.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:14
Octopus II wrote:
Back in the day, I used to be in a band called 'The Hinges'.
We opened for The Doors. |
At first I thought you were serious but now I get the joke. 
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Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:19
^
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Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:37
^^I didn't get it, oh man that was good
------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:49
The Dark Elf wrote:
... The Soft Parade - check out the number of time signature changes, and the shifts in musical styles. Albinoni's Adagio in G minor - unreleased from the Waiting for the Sun sessions. A fabulous adaptation of this composition. Riders on the Storm - the jazz elements are quite clear. LA Woman - Again, time changes are relevant, as is the poeticism of the piece When the Music's Over - an intro based on Herbie Hancock, and 11 minutes of improv. The End - yeah, pop. But only if Oedipus had Spotify. |
Hi,
It's very sad that someone would say what he did about The Doors. Of the number of bands listed on PA, The Doors would fit better than many of them, and their music has stood up the test of time beautifully, although I think that growlers and metalheads like to shrink their noses at a singer like Jim Morrison, making their bands sound very amateuristic, not to mention that many of them are mere copies of each other.
One thing we all can say about The Doors, is that their originality is without a doubt a reason to be included on PA.
Maybe the guy posting the OP only, ever, heard the AM version of Light My Fire ... Paul .. it didn't have the organ solo, btw! 
BTW, I haven't heard that Albinoni piece by The Doors and am looking for it!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:09
moshkito wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
... The Soft Parade - check out the number of time signature changes, and the shifts in musical styles. Albinoni's Adagio in G minor - unreleased from the Waiting for the Sun sessions. A fabulous adaptation of this composition. Riders on the Storm - the jazz elements are quite clear. LA Woman - Again, time changes are relevant, as is the poeticism of the piece When the Music's Over - an intro based on Herbie Hancock, and 11 minutes of improv. The End - yeah, pop. But only if Oedipus had Spotify. |
Hi,
It's very sad that someone would say what he did about The Doors. Of the number of bands listed on PA, The Doors would fit better than many of them, and their music has stood up the test of time beautifully, although I think that growlers and metalheads like to shrink their noses at a singer like Jim Morrison, making their bands sound very amateuristic, not to mention that many of them are mere copies of each other.
One thing we all can say about The Doors, is that their originality is without a doubt a reason to be included on PA.
BTW, I haven't heard that Albinoni piece by The Doors and am looking for it! |
nonsense and a bit insulting...
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Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:16
@deafmoon
If you think The Doors is the worst inclusion to the site, you're gonna hate some of the more recent inclusions 
------------- Take me down, to the underground Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life
https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:24
Necrotica wrote:
@deafmoon
If you think The Doors is the worst inclusion to the site, you're gonna hate some of the more recent inclusions  |
What recent inclusions?! I don't think any of them are controversial. The controversial entries are so few, it's not even worth fussing about.
The Doors is not a controversial addition to PA, at all.
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Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:29
Cristi wrote:
Necrotica wrote:
@deafmoon
If you think The Doors is the worst inclusion to the site, you're gonna hate some of the more recent inclusions  |
What recent inclusions?! I don't think any of them are controversial. The controversial entries are so few, it's not even worth fussing about.
The Doors is not a controversial addition to PA, at all. |
I just meant comparatively, since a lot of PA members still don't respect certain genres on here like prog metal or tech/extreme. I can only imagine what people would have thought of Avenged Sevenfold's inclusion if the userbase was still in that 2007 mindset 
------------- Take me down, to the underground Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life
https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd
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Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:31
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:33
Necrotica wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Necrotica wrote:
@deafmoon
If you think The Doors is the worst inclusion to the site, you're gonna hate some of the more recent inclusions  |
What recent inclusions?! I don't think any of them are controversial. The controversial entries are so few, it's not even worth fussing about.
The Doors is not a controversial addition to PA, at all. |
I just meant comparatively, since a lot of PA members still don't respect certain genres on here like prog metal or tech/extreme. I can only imagine what people would have thought of Avenged Sevenfold's inclusion if the userbase was still in that 2007 mindset  |
Well, I said no to them in 2023.  But I don't want to open this can of worms  .
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 14:13
Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 14:39
You could focus on a handful of bands that has a very limited selection that might could fit into some of the genres on PA, or on the hundreds, thousands of bands that fit, no questions asked.
This is not a glass half empty or half full situation, but one where the glass is filled to above the top of the glass, and a couple more drops would cause it to spill over.
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 15:06
deafmoon wrote:
After being away for awhile, I return to see The Doors are included on this site. I fail to see (exception of Ray Mazareks The Golden Scarab) the Doors as being Progressive. I lived their heyday and they were then and still are a Pop band. |
How long have you been away, 16, 17 years? 
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 15:48
There is a direct and multi-threaded link from psychedelic music to progressive rock. We all know that, right?
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Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 15:49
Personally, I identify more as an art rock fan than a prog fan as such - hence why Lamb is my favourite Genesis album, and not f.e. Foxtrot. As it happens, there is no such thing as Art Rock Archives, so I am quite pleased that there is room for that here as well. Thus, I am often more interested in some of the bands and musicians in the periphery of prog rather than the more archetypal prog bands (with the exception of Pink Floyd), and I would be very sad to see them go.
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Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 16:10
No. I don't think it's lost its way. I have been around for about 10 years, so I can't comment before that. Traffic isn't as much as I recall seeing when I first joined. I thought Prog Archives had generally a broader range than what I considered as prog but I have no complaints about that. I have discovered much new music to enjoy that I otherwise wouldn't have on my own.
The original poster's hyperbole of combining with Jazz Archives doesn't make sense as combining the two wouldn't come close to covering all music.
Of course, PA will contnue to grow as long as there are bands producing new adventurous music. There will never be universal agreement about what should or shouldn't be here.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 16:12
mathman0806 wrote:
No. I don't think it's lost its way. I have been around for about 10 years, so I can't comment before that. Traffic isn't as much as I recall seeing when I first joined. I thought Prog Archives had generally a broader range than what I considered as prog but I have no complaints about that. I have discovered much new music to enjoy that I otherwise wouldn't have on my own.
The original poster's hyperbole of combining with Jazz Archives doesn't make sense as combining the two wouldn't come close to covering all music.
Of course, PA will contnue to grow as long as there are bands producing new adventurous music. There will never be universal agreement about what should or shouldn't be here. |
Great post! 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 16:18
It's actually still a fairly conservative little institution.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 16:33
But it's not proggy prog!
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 17:39
1) People are smart enough to see the category "proto-prog" assigned to them, and 2) most people are smart enough to understand that, while they're not prog, per se, they're important for the genre's inception.
You could argue that proto-prog and prog-related artists don't have a place here at all, and that there's too many metal genres that have little to do with classic prog rock, but then I wouldn't say PA 'lost its way', because that has always been the case AFAIK.
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Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: September 10 2023 at 22:58
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I thought that was The Handles? |
Didn't they eventually change their name to the Knobs? |
They did, but quickly became The Hinges after realizing the name wouldn't get passed the censors in the UK.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 00:58
Ish, all these labels! I'm able to discern progressive tendencies in all sorts of popular music, including new wave (Fripp's League of Gentlemen was amazing live!), punk (I played bass in a Chicago punk band, The Marquis, who had an amazing, jazz-rock influenced guitarist), disco etc.
All of this proto, pre-, post, math etc. is a bunch of baloney in my book!! ALL music is based upon mathematics, ALL music led to what we now call "progressive" (Quintette du Hot Club de France!), etc.
Mind you, there is some fairly "regressive" music out there such as hip-hop, rap or whatever it's called. I see little value in all of that.
What am I missing? I know that the late, great Peter Banks also disliked the term "prog" and said "They should call it George or something."
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 01:46
^ Yes, labels and tags are fuzzy criteria of limited value. Which is why created a website where we have lots of labels and tags, but they are never an exclusion criterion.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls
Listened to:
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 04:59
Compared to five years ago, the number of reviews/ratings dropped drastically.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 05:00
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Compared to five years ago, the number of reviews dropped drastically. |
Drastically?! How drastically? I think you are exaggerating a little bit. 
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 05:07
Wasn't I in a band called the Head Jambs? Or was it the Escutcheons?
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 05:11
Cristi wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Compared to five years ago, the number of reviews/ratings dropped drastically. |
Drastically?! How drastically? I think you are exaggerating a little bit.  |
Of course, older albums have more reviews/ratings than recent albums. Yet, I think the downward review/rating trend is obvious.
Compare the 2022 top 10 albums with the 2018 top ten. 677 ratings for 2022 top ten. 2093 ratings for 2018 top 10 albums.
The 2015 top 10 albums have a total of 7325 ratings. Unless I'm mistaken, new albums tend to collect more reviews/ratings per year than older albums. In the current year 2023 albums collect more reviews/ratings than 2018 albums.
The lion's share of 2018 reviews/ratings are from the 2018-2019 years. For example, the #1 album from 2018 (All Traps On Earth) collected 27 reviews in 2018-2019 and 7 reviews in all the years since then.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 05:33
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Cristi wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Compared to five years ago, the number of reviews/ratings dropped drastically. |
Drastically?! How drastically? I think you are exaggerating a little bit.  |
Of course, older albums have more reviews/ratings than recent albums. Yet, I think the downward review/rating trend is obvious.
Compare the 2022 top 10 albums with the 2018 top ten. 677 ratings for 2022 top ten. 2093 ratings for 2018 top 10 albums.
The 2015 top 10 albums have a total of 7325 ratings. Unless I'm mistaken, new albums tend to collect more reviews/ratings per year than older albums. In the current year 2023 albums collect more reviews/ratings than 2018 albums.
The lion's share of 2018 reviews/ratings are from the 2018-2019 years. For example, the #1 album from 2018 (All Traps On Earth) collected 27 reviews in 2018-2019 and 7 reviews in all the years since then.
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ok, thanks for explaining.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 06:19
Ah, to be prog or not to be prog? That is the question. I'm not sure myself why some artists are included here, especially some listed under "prog related", but "crossover prog" seems more straight forward. But what of the bands like Genesis and Yes that rebranded themselves as pop rockers in the 80's? Should their more "commercial" albums be ejected from the archives, leaving only their early prog classics to be included?
What we have is what we have. It's up to us to make the best of it. And incase no one was looking, the Main page is usually filled with reviews of the most outra prog albums imaginable, from a myriad of different sub genres both old and new. Reviews are the main reason this site exists. The rest is all academic to that purpose.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 07:09
If you're gonna remove The Doors because they're not really prog, then you should also get rid of, like, Klaus Schultze or uh, Tangerine Dream...? Soniq Theater? xD The point is that labeling can get real subjective and there always will be some purist who might say "this shouldn't be on PA, because it's too pop, not rock enough, too derivative" and so on and so on et al. The fact the subgenres are there is super convenient IMHO, because it gives you clue on what to expect from a band, if you for example want to explore new music.
But anyway, an actual good way to improve the site would be to make star ratings in reviews optional. B)
-------------
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 07:12
Hrychu wrote:
The fact the subgenres are there is super convenient IMHO, because it gives you clue on what to expect from a band, if you for example want to explore new music. |
I agree. 
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 07:32
progaardvark wrote:
Wasn't I in a band called the Head Jambs? Or was it the Escutcheons? |
I was in an art-project band called "Casual Crobar," which was a bunch of looney artist types who created a fictional Spinal Tap tribute band!! It was a "Mobius Strip of Bad." Gawd it was fun!
We were Prog? One non-Tap song we covered was "Baby's On Fire," from Eno's "Here Come the Warm Jets." I managed to sing Eno's lead AND played Fripp's solo (badly, I might add). I'm the clown in the white lab coat.
Why is it smeared with blood, you ask? "I'm a gynecologist, I had a bad day" was my typical reply.
Progressive doesn't have to mean "good!"
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 07:50
Maybe not lost its way but certainly lost its edge and modern sheen. My woes about this site is more in the line that it is outdated in terms of technical issues. Every passing day this site becomes more antiquated whereas RYM is usurping much of the relevance that this site has. I have lists of artists that are clearly prog discovered on RYM that are missing from the databases here. The clunkiness of adding artists here is a major dampener of suggestions.
-------------
 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 07:54
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Maybe not lost its way but certainly lost its edge and modern sheen. My woes about this site is more in the line that it is outdated in terms of technical issues. Every passing day this site becomes more antiquated whereas RYM is usurping much of the relevance that this site has. I have lists of artists that are clearly prog discovered on RYM that are missing from the databases here. The clunkiness of adding artists here is a major dampener of suggestions.
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I don't know if it's a "major dampener of suggestions", but yes, the site is clunky sometimes, but I don't mind, I must be getting old or something... 
I don't see the attraction of RYM. 
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 07:55
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Maybe not lost its way but certainly lost its edge and modern sheen. My woes about this site is more in the line that it is outdated in terms of technical issues. Every passing day this site becomes more antiquated whereas RYM is usurping much of the relevance that this site has. I have lists of artists that are clearly prog discovered on RYM that are missing from the databases here. The clunkiness of adding artists here is a major dampener of suggestions. |
In my mind I have a list of new artists that I'd like to suggest band. But, the moderators won't let me suggest new artists.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 08:22
Cristi wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Maybe not lost its way but certainly lost its edge and modern sheen. My woes about this site is more in the line that it is outdated in terms of technical issues. Every passing day this site becomes more antiquated whereas RYM is usurping much of the relevance that this site has. I have lists of artists that are clearly prog discovered on RYM that are missing from the databases here. The clunkiness of adding artists here is a major dampener of suggestions.
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I don't know if it's a "major dampener of suggestions", but yes, the site is clunky sometimes, but I don't mind, I must be getting old or something... 
I don't see the attraction of RYM.  |
The requirement to write a bio and convince a team to add a band is too much for many non-English speakers. In my case i have hundreds of suggestions and just don't have time to go through the official process. As far as the clunkiness goes, how much longer will this site last without major updates? Is there any indication by the owner that these updates are in the process to give us faith that the site will be here in 5 years? I personally have zero faith it will be.
The attraction of RYM is manyfold:
1) it's updated regularly! The easy of navigation is a charm.
2) multitagging for albums, not artists! If i'm looking for an album that is both symphonic prog and Arabic folk music for example, i can easily find it in the search engine! 3) higher number of users. Our top albums i YES' Close To The Edge. On PA there are only 4976 ratings. On RYM 28,719. Obviously for many progheads prefer that site 4) Users can vote on album genres! 5) Just more innovative in about every way.
-------------
 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 08:23
omphaloskepsis wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Maybe not lost its way but certainly lost its edge and modern sheen. My woes about this site is more in the line that it is outdated in terms of technical issues. Every passing day this site becomes more antiquated whereas RYM is usurping much of the relevance that this site has. I have lists of artists that are clearly prog discovered on RYM that are missing from the databases here. The clunkiness of adding artists here is a major dampener of suggestions. |
I have a list of new artists that I'd like to add. But, the moderators won't let me add new artists. |
Punished for politics. Another feature that bogs this site down. None of that on RYM (as far as adding artists). Funny that most of the political banter here is totally clueless as to the true nature of politics :/
-------------
 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 08:25
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Cristi wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Maybe not lost its way but certainly lost its edge and modern sheen. My woes about this site is more in the line that it is outdated in terms of technical issues. Every passing day this site becomes more antiquated whereas RYM is usurping much of the relevance that this site has. I have lists of artists that are clearly prog discovered on RYM that are missing from the databases here. The clunkiness of adding artists here is a major dampener of suggestions.
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I don't know if it's a "major dampener of suggestions", but yes, the site is clunky sometimes, but I don't mind, I must be getting old or something... 
I don't see the attraction of RYM.  |
The requirement to write a bio and convince a team to add a band is too much for many non-English speakers. In my case i have hundreds of suggestions and just don't have time to go through the official process. As far as the clunkiness goes, how much longer will this site last without major updates? Is there any indication by the owner that these updates are in the process to give us faith that the site will be here in 5 years? I personally have zero faith it will be.
The attraction of RYM is manyfold:
1) it's updated regularly! The easy of navigation is a charm.
2) multitagging for albums, not artists! If i'm looking for an album that is both symphonic prog and Arabic folk music for example, i can easily find it in the search engine! 3) higher number of users. Our top albums i YES' Close To The Edge. On PA there are only 4976 ratings. On RYM 28,719. Obviously for many progheads prefer that site 4) Users can vote on album genres! 5) Just more innovative in about every way.
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Again, I have no desire to visit that site, spend time there. I looked for album info a few times and that was it. 
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 08:33
Cristi was kind enough to correct my mistake in a PM. Thank you Cristi.
The moderators won't let me suggest new bands. Like Cristi said, only collaborators can add.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 08:35
Cristi wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Cristi wrote:
siLLy puPPy wrote:
Maybe not lost its way but certainly lost its edge and modern sheen. My woes about this site is more in the line that it is outdated in terms of technical issues. Every passing day this site becomes more antiquated whereas RYM is usurping much of the relevance that this site has. I have lists of artists that are clearly prog discovered on RYM that are missing from the databases here. The clunkiness of adding artists here is a major dampener of suggestions.
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I don't know if it's a "major dampener of suggestions", but yes, the site is clunky sometimes, but I don't mind, I must be getting old or something... 
I don't see the attraction of RYM.  |
The requirement to write a bio and convince a team to add a band is too much for many non-English speakers. In my case i have hundreds of suggestions and just don't have time to go through the official process. As far as the clunkiness goes, how much longer will this site last without major updates? Is there any indication by the owner that these updates are in the process to give us faith that the site will be here in 5 years? I personally have zero faith it will be.
The attraction of RYM is manyfold:
1) it's updated regularly! The easy of navigation is a charm.
2) multitagging for albums, not artists! If i'm looking for an album that is both symphonic prog and Arabic folk music for example, i can easily find it in the search engine! 3) higher number of users. Our top albums i YES' Close To The Edge. On PA there are only 4976 ratings. On RYM 28,719. Obviously for many progheads prefer that site 4) Users can vote on album genres! 5) Just more innovative in about every way.
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Again, I have no desire to visit that site, spend time there. I looked for album info a few times and that was it. 
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^ in a few years when this site collapses from utter neglect, you may have no choice!
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 08:37
siLLy puPPy wrote:
in a few years when this site collapses from utter neglect, you may have no choice!
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Maybe. I do not think this far ahead. 
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Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:07
I was thinking of giving it a go on RYM, because, tbh., it is not restricted to one type of music. So basically I could be talking about any music there, and maybe there is a greater diversity among users? In theory, there should also be someone to take any genre seriously. However, when I looked at the site, it seemed a bit hard to manoeuvre around in.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:09
The Anders wrote:
when I looked at the site, it seemed a bit hard to manoeuvre around in. |
That's true for me as well.
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:18
The advantage PA has over RYM is that all reviews have to be in English.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:23
Hrychu wrote:
The advantage PA has over RYM is that all reviews have to be in English.
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PA is also better in that it has alphabetical lists for genres. That is very helpful.
Also it is better at adding newer prog artists. That is one of RYM's weak points.
All in all though once you get the hang of RYM it's a great site.
I love this site too. I don't want this one to disappear. I just want it updated :/
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:31
Hrychu wrote:
The advantage PA has over RYM is that all reviews have to be in English.
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Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more
However, I don't like the way RYM, and its voting system to make a correction. I've got 4 corrections that are still waiting after 10 years  .... So screw it. 
RYM are different beasts, so no serious comparisons are possible
The RYM site is still useful (the search function is very helpful - we don't have one) and navigation from one album to the next (or previous) is excellent. A lot of members here are also members there. I dislike RYM's cookie-waiving policies , though.
PA used to have that in-between album navigation on every album page, but it got taken away, because M@X thought it was slowing data transfer.
But if I want details, I'll use Discogs. A lot of members here are also members there.
.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:47
The best site for reviews is AllMusic. Best site for technical info is Discogs. There are several sites that are good for music samples. There is nothing at RYM that is useful for me.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:49
I have no problem with RYM reviews not being in English. Translators are very good these days, and one can have translator add-ons. And I like to read in certain other languages sometimes.
I use RYM for the charts largely, and in looking at discographies. Those ratings have been a good guide to me, and I read the reviews there far more than here (speaking as someone who is far too long-winded, I prefer the brevity that is common there). I love that you can search for albums using multiple tags (not just genre tags too) and that it does get as many ratings as it does. I have discovered lots of albums that I love thanks to searching RYM's charts. I also find that the ratings there for the kinds of music I like tend to be more reflective of my tastes than at PA. I also find their definitions useful. I have been using it as a resource site for many years. Depending on what you want to use it for, I guess, I have not found it hard to navigate or figure out. It took some effort, pretty minimal, but I don't think ones needs a steep learning curve, or that much effort or intelligence to figure it out. A little patience to try things and figure it out perhaps, but not much required I think. I think some do have this sort of fast-food mentality where they are not investing in exploring and learning and judge way too quickly. The rewards were well worth the effort I put in.
It is the best place for me to discover albums of interest to me now. With PA, it's about the forums for me, and I don't visit the rest of the site much of my own volition. Often it is only when I am called on it to make corrections or because it relates to something I am doing on the forum. That said, I have found RYM horrible without ad-block. I think RYM is an awesome site, but the forum, which I have looked at more than once, has not attracted me yet. As resource, I prefer searching Reddit as a forum (I often would read Reddit without ever posting there). With PA, neither the database nor the the forums are used as much of a resource. I use the forums here because I enjoy interacting with the PA community and also out of habit. And another issue I have with PA is that I like far more music than what is included here, and if, say, using charts, I don't want to limit to so-called Prog
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:57
^ YES about ad block. It is awful. I'm a subscribing member so i get premium quirks plus no ads. A premium membership with add ons would be helpful on this site as well. Yeah there is no perfect site. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. I love Discogs, AllMusic, Sputnik, RYM and many others including this one. It's like the perfect human. Doesn't exist!
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 09:58
I love Prog Archives. I don't use any other Prog sites or forums.
I think the people who post on here are great, and this forum is great fun, as well as informative. 
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 10:27
The one thing I like about RYM is the ability to catalog my own collection in it (something you can do at Discogs too). The downsides, as others have mentioned: it takes a long time for a correction to be approved, it takes some considerable amount of time to add a new band and add a new album (but once you get the hang of it, it isn't too bad), you probably should own a scanner if you want to upload album covers (they are very unaccepting of pulling album covers from other sources), and the rules for doing so are a considerable learning curve. The latter problem is an issue for newcomers, but on the other hand, their data is consistent across the database due to these rules. Their rules seem like they were well thought out and designed by someone (or some group of people) that has experience with cataloging standards and I can respect that as I have about 30 years of various cataloging and metadata standards under my belt from working in the library world.
Pipeline corns are asking me about my physics and my soap dish.
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
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Posted By: Heart of the Matter
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 16:12
SteveG wrote:
Ah, to be prog or not to be prog? That is the question. I'm not sure myself why some artists are included here, especially some listed under "prog related", but "crossover prog" seems more straight forward. But what of the bands like Genesis and Yes that rebranded themselves as pop rockers in the 80's? Should their more "commercial" albums be ejected from the archives, leaving only their early prog classics to be included?
What we have is what we have. It's up to us to make the best of it. And incase no one was looking, the Main page is usually filled with reviews of the most outra prog albums imaginable, from a myriad of different sub genres both old and new. Reviews are the main reason this site exists. The rest is all academic to that purpose. |
Well, I'm not so sure of the last sentence, the suggestions forum is not academic for the purpose of reviewing. In fact, the more artists added result in more reviewing possibilities. If some review is ever written here, that's because some poor fellow went through that ritual.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 11 2023 at 21:34
I've said many times that a load of bands in the seventies that were never considered 'prog' at all are now included in PA. Prog was a much more niche thing then than many would now have you believe. An awful lot of rewriting of history has gone on here and I believe that someone not that well versed in prog history would be very mislead if they visit here. The Doors are indeed a good case in point. Nowwhere near prog at all back in the day even if they were well respected generally. Riders On The Storm is cool but I could care less about anything else they did. I suspect they had more connection and influence on punk rock and the indie scene which is fine but I've not heard any prog luminaries talk about them as a major influence or anything like that.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 12 2023 at 16:54
richardh wrote:
I've said many times that a load of bands in the seventies that were never considered 'prog' at all are now included in PA. Prog was a much more niche thing then than many would now have you believe. An awful lot of rewriting of history has gone on here and I believe that someone not that well versed in prog history would be very mislead if they visit here. The Doors are indeed a good case in point. Nowwhere near prog at all back in the day even if they were well respected generally. Riders On The Storm is cool but I could care less about anything else they did. I suspect they had more connection and influence on punk rock and the indie scene which is fine but I've not heard any prog luminaries talk about them as a major influence or anything like that.
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I had no idea The Doors were on PA, let alone defined as "Proto-Prog"! 
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 00:19
verslibre wrote:
richardh wrote:
I've said many times that a load of bands in the seventies that were never considered 'prog' at all are now included in PA. Prog was a much more niche thing then than many would now have you believe. An awful lot of rewriting of history has gone on here and I believe that someone not that well versed in prog history would be very mislead if they visit here. The Doors are indeed a good case in point. Nowwhere near prog at all back in the day even if they were well respected generally. Riders On The Storm is cool but I could care less about anything else they did. I suspect they had more connection and influence on punk rock and the indie scene which is fine but I've not heard any prog luminaries talk about them as a major influence or anything like that.
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I had no idea The Doors were on PA, let alone defined as "Proto-Prog"!  |
It needs to be remembered that the owner of this site saw it not just as a progressive rock encyclopaedia, but as a means of making money through traffic generating advertisement income. The more traffic, the more income, hence the ridiculous inclusion of acts such as The Doors, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and etc. It had nothing whatsoever to do with “progressive traits”, but everything to do with attracting people to visit the site.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 00:46
^ That's not entirely fair-- if it were just income, a lot more acts than the Doors or Purple or any other artist someone may deem 'not prog' would be included, but of course both Protoprog & Progrelated aren't prog rock subgenres.
I would also add that to assert flatly that Black Sabbath (Prog-related here,not Proto), one of the most seminal and innovative rock bands ever, was not significant to progressive rock is dubious. It isn't just that Sabbath was an important band that practically invented heavy metal, it's that the creative statement they were making with their stark, anti-Hippie hard rock was as progressive as what Tull or ELP were doing. The whole damned era was progressive, that's the point.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 02:46
lazland wrote:
verslibre wrote:
richardh wrote:
I've said many times that a load of bands in the seventies that were never considered 'prog' at all are now included in PA. Prog was a much more niche thing then than many would now have you believe. An awful lot of rewriting of history has gone on here and I believe that someone not that well versed in prog history would be very mislead if they visit here. The Doors are indeed a good case in point. Nowwhere near prog at all back in the day even if they were well respected generally. Riders On The Storm is cool but I could care less about anything else they did. I suspect they had more connection and influence on punk rock and the indie scene which is fine but I've not heard any prog luminaries talk about them as a major influence or anything like that.
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I had no idea The Doors were on PA, let alone defined as "Proto-Prog"!  |
It needs to be remembered that the owner of this site saw it not just as a progressive rock encyclopaedia, but as a means of making money through traffic generating advertisement income. The more traffic, the more income, hence the ridiculous inclusion of acts such as The Doors, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and etc. It had nothing whatsoever to do with “progressive traits”, but everything to do with attracting people to visit the site. |
I would suggest that M@X was pleasantly surprised that ProgArchives managed to become a top 80 most-visited site on the web, but that was also not intended, IMHO. Should he have wanted to create a very successful website (that's his job in real life, after all) about rock music in 2004, he might've chosen another rock genre (like Metal, for ex) or just a general music site.
By the time he got around to create MMA and JMA in 2009 or 2011, they were never as successful, because of the competition was too strong (the genius was to have "started" PA in 2004, timewise - even if he bought the site from a Florida duo and moved it to Quebec). So assuming he did it for the money is wrong. He flashed on "Prog" via the VdGG's The Box boxset, but he was a metalhead before that.
I dare say that he (Max) learned quite a bit about the genre seeing our contributions, and he did encourage us to be inclusive - whereas many symph-weenie progheads would've preferred to be exclusive >> the fights were numerous.
The one policy that I didn't like was that, once introduced, the artiste's total discography fad to be filled in (hence Kind Of Blue) TBH, that's stopped me from introducing more 50/60's jazz artistes like McCoy Tyner , etc...
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 02:54
It's sad how Deep Purple and Black Sabbath are belittled sometimes, when both bands did some groundbreaking music in their hey day, and in DP's case, early in their career (the Rod Evans era). Both bands quite influential on genres to come, I don't see how them being on PA is controversial.
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 02:55
Although I personally don't see The Doors as proto-prog, I have no problems with the categories "proto-prog" and "prog-related". I think their name is self-descriptive enough, they are meant to include bands which are not prog, but which for some reason are probably of interest to many prog fans.
Also in several cases, the band's discography may not be considered as prog as a whole, but they have one or two albums which are proggy and this justifies their inclusion.
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 03:21
Cristi wrote:
It's sad how Deep Purple and Black Sabbath are belittled sometimes, when both bands did some groundbreaking music in their hey day, and in DP's case, early in their career (the Rod Evans era). Both bands quite influential on genres to come, I don't see how them being on PA is controversial.  |
My dear chap, I was not belittling them. I love both, as any even cursory glance at my written work will attest. They are simply not progressive rock. Art rock at times, yes, and with tracks which were very influenced by and on progressive rock. I was merely stating why they were included, and that was to drive traffic. I didn’t say it was wrong 
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 03:27
^ Generating traffic is what the website is about, at the core. 
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls
Listened to:
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 03:34
Like someone said above - proto-prog and prog-related are not prog subgenres or music genres.
Deep Purple are classified under proto-prog for the early albums, Jon Lord's contribution alone makes DP worthy to be included here.
Black Sabbath is on PA under prog-related. This should not upset anyone.
I also doubt they were added to PA to drive traffic.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 03:41
Just to note:
Prog Archives was officially launched in September, 2002. The earliest snapshot of the website is from July, 26 2002 at waybackmachine. https://web.archive.org/web/20020726140505/http://www.progarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - https://web.archive.org/web/20020726140505/http://www.progarchives.com/
Prog Archives existed before M@X came onboard and eventually acquired it.
I can't remember who originally set it up, but it was Prog fans I believe, but I believe that ProgLucky (Rony) (also a Prog fan) acquired the site from the original owners and then brought on M@X (who designs and works on websites) who later bought the site. In 2003 there is a message that ProgArchives is https://web.archive.org/web/20030126102830/http://www.progarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - changing management.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040801000000*/progarchives.com" rel="nofollow - https://web.archive.org/web/20040801000000*/progarchives.com
By the way, while there earlier suggestion threads included in Suggest new Bands for the Doors, here was the latest before and after addition. https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31414" rel="nofollow - https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31414
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 03:57
I've been wondering about the monetary situation - back in the 2000s I think I saw a lot of google banner ads. The yellow box at the top of the page still mentions them. But today they're all gone, at least I don't see any ads except for when you use the integrated google search. Is it mostly donations these days, or am I just not seeing the ads from Sweden?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls
Listened to:
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 03:59
Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more |
It is an advantage cuz the language is standarized. That way, it's less distracting and more accessible to an average reader. :)
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Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 04:26
There is nothing to belittle about Deep Purple as far as I am concerned. They were one of the most original rock bands of their time 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 04:30
Hrychu wrote:
Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more |
It is an advantage cuz the language is standarized. That way, it's less distracting and more accessible to an average reader. :)
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Hi,
It's an even bigger "advantage" when it comes to the cultural basis of the language ... a perfect example is the same phrase is stated differently in each language, and the inflections, is like theater ... it seems so different and yet saying the same thing!
The "standardized" thing, is an invented IDEAL for commercial purposes. It has very little to do with the work and the art itself ... but it has the advantage of the wider/larger audience being able to buy it and "understand it". And this might be something that the smaller countries and cultures can take advantage of and gain from a lot ... and it shows in music (though not as visible in other arts!!!), although I'm not sure PA has something like 150 different soccer countries or something like it! Film, classical music, theater and literature are not "gaining" from this as much as rock music has ... from this commercial advantage.
The "standardization" is not really necessary. My preference, these days, is not to hear a foreign band sing in English (for example) but to hear them in the beauty, lyricism, and nuances of their own language. In a "standardization", this gets completely lost ... and our ideas that we miss the what the whole thing is about is thought to be lost ... and it isn't ... one could say we're being lazy ... but be it any of the romance languages, not a single one of them have ever sounded weird to my ear, and then you can add a lot of the Eastern Europeans ... and African ... Latin American ... and the individual touches are amazing ... and totally special. It is weird to me that we can not "enjoy" that ... and think that our own "god" has to speak English ... and that is going to end up in a holy war and total destruction! Jesus of Nazareth and Moses ... did not speak English! And no one has any idea of what they might have sounded like in their own idiom!
But we think that in English is the perfect this or that ... golly damn that Charlton Heston ... he ruined us!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 06:13
The Anders wrote:
There is nothing to belittle about Deep Purple as far as I am concerned. They were one of the most original rock bands of their time 
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Purple is in PA because of their first four albums (including that catastrophic concerto)
Hrychu wrote:
Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more |
It is an advantage cuz the language is standarized. That way, it's less distracting and more accessible to an average reader. :)
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But if you're aiming at international readership, multiple language usage is better  
The only problem I see is that you need someone in your staff fluent in that language to monitor if the review meets the requirements/guidelines.
.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 06:20
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 07:24
deafmoon wrote:
If you need to keep growing and expanding, maybe merge Jazz Music Archives into this site and just label it, The Music Archives. |
However to do it or whatever to do, I think it's a very important issue to think about in order to do it in a reasonnable way.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 07:32
David_D wrote:
deafmoon wrote:
If you need to keep growing and expanding, maybe merge Jazz Music Archives into this site and just label it, The Music Archives. |
However to do it or whatever to do, I think it's a very important issue to think about in order to do it in a reasonnable way. |
I'm still undecided about what to think of the Concerto tbh., but it was bold of them to try it for sure.
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Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 07:33
^Oops, answered to the wrong post.
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Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 09:03
I think The Doors were one of the first prog-rock bands. People talk about the music, lyrics, so I'll add rhythm....
Between 1967-1971,
Break on Through (Bossanova)
Light My Fire (Latin)
Moonlight Drive (Tango)
Cars Hiss By My Window (Blues)
Love Her Madly (Rock)
Wintertime Love (Jazz)
Roadhouse Blues (Shuffle)
Strange Days (Tribal)
The WASP (Military cadence and jazz)
Spanish Caravan (consistent pounding 2nd verse)
------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition
https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 09:12
Sean Trane wrote:
Hrychu wrote:
Not necessarily an advantage. I speak 4 languages and can read two more |
It is an advantage cuz the language is standarized. That way, it's less distracting and more accessible to an average reader. :)
|
But if you're aiming at international readership, multiple language usage is better  
The only problem I see is that you need someone in your staff fluent in that language to monitor if the review meets the requirements/guidelines. |
I certainly would support "internationalizing" the reviews policy on this site. With better online translators (and I know these are far from perfect), I think many of us one-language speakers (myself included) can get by better than we used to. I often use them to translate reviews on RYM which I have found very helpful. This English-only rule prevents non-English speakers/writers from making valuable contributions to the site and, sorry to say, has an air of colonialism in it.
I agree that monitoring reviews so they meet content standards could be an issue. We do have a nice group of folks on the forums that are from many parts of the world and appear to cover a diverse range of languages. Surely we could ask for their help? The other concern I have is this site's ongoing technological issues. I'm not convinced that it can reliably handle the entire Unicode set of characters, most notably with recent troubles with characters containing diacritics.
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 10:24
exactly. In reverse I've sometimes heard ELP described as 'Heavy Metal' (listening to say PAAE this is not a wildly off view) but would you expect them to be anywhere near a site dedicated to Metal or Heavy rock. We can respect bands at a distance perhaps. That said I did push for the inclusion of Maiden here and genuinely thought they had a strong case but plenty pushed back against that. 
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 10:52
MortSahlFan wrote:
I think The Doors were one of the first prog-rock bands. People talk about the music, lyrics, so I'll add rhythm....
Between 1967-1971,
Break on Through (Bossanova)
Light My Fire (Latin)
Moonlight Drive (Tango)
Cars Hiss By My Window (Blues)
Love Her Madly (Rock)
Wintertime Love (Jazz)
Roadhouse Blues (Shuffle)
Strange Days (Tribal)
The WASP (Military cadence and jazz)
Spanish Caravan (consistent pounding 2nd verse)
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Aretha Franklin and a gazillion pop and jazz artists boasted the same diversity of genres which is admirable but doesn't make them progressive rock.
I'm OK with The Doors being here simply for The Soft Parade alone otherwise they were just above average to OMG phenomenal psychedelic rock.
-------------
 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 11:19
This English-only rule prevents non-English speakers/writers from making
valuable contributions to the site and, sorry to say, has an air of
colonialism in it. |
It's an international language and it's easy to learn by non-English speakers. The colonialism thing is a lame excuse IMO. Why make a website a trash can of shіt in all languages of the world if we can have a clean, tidy accessible international English-languaged website? With easier communication and moderation?
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 14:19
Hrychu wrote:
This English-only rule prevents non-English speakers/writers from making
valuable contributions to the site and, sorry to say, has an air of
colonialism in it. |
It's an international language and it's easy to learn by non-English speakers. The colonialism thing is a lame excuse IMO. Why make a website a trash can of shіt in all languages of the world if we can have a clean, tidy accessible international English-languaged website? With easier communication and moderation?
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Sorry, I guess I was wrong about that idea. Maybe it's just me? I work with multilingual databases in my day job and I'm just used to seeing things in many languages in my line of work (which is mostly messing around with library metadata for database ingestion).
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 14:40
I love that RYM allows multiple languages
It’s no big deal to use google translate these days
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 14:43
There's a difference between business stuff and a music website, on which people don't want to feel like they can't access/understand something, because it's in a language they can't speak for example and machine translators can't really do a good job at translating that body of text (Finnish and Basque are super tricky for machine translation for instance). There should be a way to unify the music lovers from all around the world, and one of those things is to have everything in a universal language that is English.
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 14:48
I love that RYM allows multiple languages
It’s no big deal to use google translate these days |
Yeah? But why should the reader use an unprecise tool to get a general sense of understanding someone's review? Can't that reviewer write their Basque or Finnish etc. reviews on like a website that's designed in such a language? And use English in the first place for international communication?
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 15:15
^ well it’s probably because if they didn’t write a review in their own language then they wouldn’t write a review at all
I think it adds a level on inclusion that English only lacks
Also it’s a great way to learn a new language!
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 01:15
siLLy puPPy wrote:
I love that RYM allows multiple languages
It’s no big deal to use google translate these days |
I live my life without the GAFA's
It took me years to kick out google out of my PC for good (had to make sure the updates didn't reinstall it), but I finally managed it
More difficult to do it at work, though, as I don't master the whole shebang.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 04:45
Hrychu wrote:
... It's an international language and it's easy to learn by non-English speakers. The colonialism thing is a lame excuse IMO. Why make a website a trash can of shіt in all languages of the world if we can have a clean, tidy accessible international English-language website? With easier communication and moderation?
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Hi,
The idea is right and makes sense and it would be a nice Utopian view of communication world wide. It would also be a sort of "euro" where the sharing and the this and that can be worked out and each country can benefit ... until one set of hooligans decide they want out because they are richer than the rest and they want the money and the controls.
Now you have an issue, and someone that thinks their language, their method and their color and their dog, is the way things should be ... what happens then? The communication and moderation breaks down, and it goes back to their old customs, with one issue ... the smaller country and cultural group ends up decimated ... I guess that's the history of the world, anyway, the strong survive and the weak die!
Now change the wording ... what happens if Chinese becomes "the" language in the Far East .... and the Japanese will want another war? I know what side you gonna fight on (I would too!). Not sure we can include/change thousands of years of history in this story ...
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 05:26
Hrychu wrote:
I love that RYM allows multiple languages
It’s no big deal to use google translate these days |
Yeah? But why should the reader use an unprecise tool to get a general sense of understanding someone's review? Can't that reviewer write their Basque or Finnish etc. reviews on like a website that's designed in such a language? And use English in the first place for international communication?
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I don't know about Basque and Finnish, but there is no such website in Danish.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 06:23
Hrychu wrote:
I love that RYM allows multiple languages
It’s no big deal to use google translate these days |
Yeah? But why should the reader use an unprecise tool to get a general sense of understanding someone's review? Can't that reviewer write their Basque or Finnish etc. reviews on like a website that's designed in such a language? And use English in the first place for international communication?
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What if they don't speak English?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls
Listened to:
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 09:48
Wow. So what if there are reviews in another language and you can't read them. Is it the end of the world? The fact is that they allow other languages for reviews. The main idea was to create RYM in all languages and each site would have reviews in its respective language. That's a tall order and i guess they've fallen behind in that lofty pursuit. Personally i love it. I speak multiple languages and it helps me with becoming fluent especially with musical terminology.
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 10:25
Looks like some folks will remain close-minded forever. :P I will now abandon all my attempts at trying to present my views. :) If that's cool for you, then it's fuсking fine.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 10:48
^
So you can't take the heat when someone disagrees, huh? I find it futile to spin one's wheels over something so petty and out of one's own control. So now disagreeing is tantamount to being close-minded? LOL. Lighten up. It's all just good conversation. Your point is totally heard and you have a right to your opinion. I'm just saying that i DO like multiple languages but i'm a linguist so go figure 
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 10:59
Can we still be friends though? Absolutely!
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