David Cameron: The loose cannon
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Topic: David Cameron: The loose cannon
Posted By: Blacksword
Subject: David Cameron: The loose cannon
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 04:43
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Within the space of a week, Tory boy PM, David Cameron has referred to The Gaza strip as a 'prison camp' and, while on a trip to India, has said that Pakistan must not be allowed to export terror anywhere in the world. He's been criticised for his comments, but has defended them, stating it is important to speak 'frankly' on such isues..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10797847 - BBC Article Are we seeing a new era of straight talking in British politics, after 13 years of NuLab 'double-speak' trying to be all things to all men, or is Cameron just being a gobby chinless kn0bhead, excited by his new job, and will eventually be 'snapped down' by the Israeli friendly media, who traditionally support his awful party? ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Replies:
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 05:32
| I like your lack of bias, it really makes me want to engage in debate with you. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 05:36
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oooohhh....handbags at dawn here! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 05:39
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Personally, I'm far more concerned with his comments about us being a "junior partner to America in 1940". He's backtracked on them since but for a man who went to the "best school in the country" he seems to have a pretty shaky grasp of our national history. Also, he is a c**t. How's that for lack of bias? |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 05:42
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HEY GUYS I THINK CERTAIN POLITICANS ARE c**tS
DISCUSS |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 05:42
| WITH PICTURES |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:12
I thought I was being quite fair really. I criticised both Labour and the Tories. I made refernce to a 'gaff' about Pakistan AND Gaza.. With regard to traditionally pro Israeli British media supporting the Tories, that's not a matter of opinion. They do. It's a fact, and in reality it is they who show remorseless relentless bias in their political leanings. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Textbook wrote:Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:15
You did call his party "awful".  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:18
| Yes I think the bias-free tone was firmly established by the phrase "loose cannon" in the title. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:20
What if he'd added a question mark at the end? David Cameron: The loose cannon?------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:21
| I think David Cameron: c**t? would've been best. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:22
Not really, the term loose cannon can be seen as a compliment - just because a person does not toe the party line in all things at all times (I'm not referring to DC here, just generalising), this is not necessarily a bad thing. ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:24
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:25
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I'm also sure this could be a good debate, but please refrain from obscenity, even if it is censored. -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:26
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Loose cannon is definitely not a compliment. It's inherently negative. It means a person cannot be relied on and is a liability. Do you know what a loose cannon literally is?
I think you meant "maverick".
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:28
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Well that's me corrected, then -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 06:33
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"Maverick" has become something of a joke post-McCain though.
We could try other words I suppose.
David Cameron: a****le
(Can be taken negatively but could also be a compliment as a****les actually serve a vital and useful function in terms of removing harmful waste products from our system, much as effective politicians work to minimise harmful elements in society)
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:03
Really? The ENTIRE British media? Sure, the Murdoch empire, the Mail &c are naturally right-leaning and pro-Israeli but the BBC are generally even-handed to a fault on this issue. If we are to have a serious discussion here, then it'd be good to avoid sweeping generalisations about "the media" as though it were a single entity. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:08
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It's ok for you to say knobhead, you don't need to try to evade a censor that doesn't exist. I'm all for people saying bad things about Israel, they may not deserve all of them but they need to get a thicker skin. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:08
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Right, well if that's the semantics argument dispensed with, I'll re-phrase my opening question, in a completely unbiased way, and we'll see how we go from there...
In light of Prime Minister David Camerons recent references to the Gaza Strip as a 'prison camp' and elements of the Pakistani government, backing the export of terror, do we have a prime minister who is genuinely happy to express personal views on contraversial issues, or is he just getting carried away with his new found power, and forgetting himself? In either case would we benefit from a leader who doesn't mind expressing such views, or from a diplomatic point of view, are we better with the double speak formula employed over the last decade? ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:11
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Israel already have a thick skin......they have too. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:11
Fair point. I actually didn;t mean to generalise. I thought that would be obvious, but reading back over my post, I guess not. I had newspapers in mind more than TV, which I should have said. I'm thinking along the lines of The Mail, The Express, The Telegraph, The Times, The Sun.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:15
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That said, it's funny how perspectives can differ so radically on what constitutes bias. The BBC has been accused in almost equal measure of being overtly pro Palestinian, and of being overtly pro Israel!
This may have happened in their attempt to be unbiased by reporting the plight of either side. As far as each side is concenred, the 'other side' does not have a 'plight' to start with. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:16
Not really, anytime somebody complains about one of the horrible things they do (the Gaza flotilla is a recent example) they throw a fit about being persecuted by the world because oy vey the Jews are always the scapegoat. Somehow, I can't take their official position that Gaza does not have any humanitarian problems very seriously. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:18
Well they have a right to defend their position. Verbally and physically. Anyway this is a different discussion.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:20
It depends how you measure 'humanitarian crisis' The UN believe there is a crisis there, but then Israel doesn't recognise the UNs authority, and believes it to be anti semitic talking shop, hence they dont share their views on the Gaza issue. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:24
Defending yourself is different from accusing your opponents of racism whenever they criticize you. But am I also not interested in having an in-depth discussion about Israel and Palestine. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:27
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Any thoughts then..??
In light of Prime Minister David Camerons recent references to the Gaza Strip as a 'prison camp' and elements of the Pakistani government, backing the export of terror, do we have a prime minister who is genuinely happy to express personal views on contraversial issues, or is he just getting carried away with his new found power, and forgetting himself? In either case would we benefit from a leader who doesn't mind expressing such views, or from a diplomatic point of view, are we better with the double speak formula employed over the last decade? ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 07:53
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Firstly, re: "the media", I guessed you meant the right wing press but I thought it'd be best to clarify that. Yes, it's a sizeable chunk of our overall media landscape but it's dangerous to think of it as synonymous with the general term of "the media" or in any way representative of anything but a minorty of powerful individuals. As for this...
I can't help thinking that it's just shoddy diplomacy. However much I might agree with the opinions he expressed regarding Gaza (I don't know enough about the Pakistan situation to comment), putting the Israeli's backs up in such a public manner is likely to do more harm than good, I think. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 08:06
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As an American, I can't say I've heard or seen anything about this.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 08:27
I am more concerned with his wish to disrupt the EEC as UK was doing constantly during the Thatcher/Major years.
It's hard enough to make work it correctly without having constantly magging elements trying to disrupt it. It was much better under the Blair and Brown eras. We have enough with the Czechs and poles.... the last thing we need is the PC having their PMS syndrome. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 08:29
Anything that disrupts the EEC
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 08:43
I like it when politicians speak their mind on issues that others tip toe and tap dance around, but that's just me. In the real world there is usually a good reason why experienced politicians tip toe and tap dance around such things. Usually to avoid a hurricane of diplomatic sh*t, incurring damaged trade relations among other things...So yes, you're probably right. It probably was shoddy diplomacy, but it makes me wonder if these are the kind of exchanges they have in private anyway, and the face they put on for the rest of the world is merely a mask. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 09:20
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I think that Cameron is being naive or foolish (maybe both) and certainly a bad diplomat. With his utterance about Pakistan he's managed to put the backs up of a government the UK is relying on for co-operation against terrorism, plus seem like he's sucking up to his Indian hosts. If he was going to have a pop at Pakistan about exporting terrorism he should have had the honesty to go there and do it in person. Politicians definitely have to be careful what they say, which is probably why so many of them end up sounding like bland, cliche-spouting androids. I should think 99% of people (definitely including me) wouldn't last 30 seconds in politics if the private conversations they have several times a day were repeated in front of the media. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 09:36
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Wait, so you have politics outside of America? Huh. Learn something every day, right? ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: July 29 2010 at 10:06
Oh, I've no doubt that in private politicians have some very frank exchanges, but if there's one thing a diplomat should avoid it's being provocative in public. My gut feeling is that these commenst have got nothing to do with affecting foreign policy in any meaningful manner and much more to do with the Tory propaganda machine searching for a new angle to distinguish Cameron from his predecessors. Just as they've been drip-feeding us announcements of government cutbacks and scrapping "ineffective" Labour policies at home, they now want us to see Cameron as the straight-talkin' no-nonsense leader of a major global player. Don't kid yourself into thinking the journalists thrust these comments into every headline because they all independantly spotted them as significant statements after the event - the PR men will have circulated copies of his speeches well in advance with all the important bits picked out in bold. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: July 30 2010 at 19:24
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David Cameron? Eh, I wasn't really a huge fan of his movies..... |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 30 2010 at 19:35
Pirate movies mostly....he played a loose cannon. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 30 2010 at 20:10
| Before this thread goes any further, has anyone questioned the objectivity of having loose cannon in the title yet? |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: July 30 2010 at 20:12
no |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: July 30 2010 at 20:40
How about David Caruso:The Loose Cannon? 
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 30 2010 at 22:49
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We should totally make a trailer on Youtube for an action movie about British politics.
*gritty announcer voice*
In a world of two parties... one man... *shot of Nick Clegg* rose to stand up for what he believed in... but he didn't realise what he was getting into.
*black screen, under David Cameron soundbite*
DC: The trouble with Twitter, the instantness of it - too many twits might make a t**t.
This parliament, David Cameron is... The Loose Cannon.
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: July 31 2010 at 10:52
Cameron you twonk. 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 04:48
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Only a few months in Cameron is already showing his ineptitude and inexperience in political diplomacy...
yes, some things need to be said but he should be careful how he says them,
some things should never be said by the Prime Minister - he should leave that to an expendable back bencher,
he should make observations not statements...very dangerous to do so, now we'll be spending a lot more on his personal security
 "don't blame me i voted Labour" stickers available from Mystic Towers, London..
 -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 01 2010 at 04:54
But sabotaging it the way farage and Cameron (as Malor/Thatcher) do is indecent ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 07:08
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I'm hoping he gets forced to resign... but that's just wishful thinking on my part. Ah well.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 07:37
I agree...Britain should get out. But we will be missed I assure you. You know it too. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 07:57
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I'm watching World at War on BBC Two and they're talking about the Coalition government in the 1940s and they showed a clip of the Tory candidate Lord Hartington. He looks very like David Cameron. It's quite unsettling!  Not the best photo, I'm afraid. -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 08:05
I keep forgetting to watch that! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 09:39
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They'll be repeated again. You can get the DVD boxset as well. I've seen a lot of them before, obviously but I still watch them when they're repeated. -------------
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 09:58
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I think it's about time that the Brits had someone in power with some GUTS, When Maggie went to the Falklands to kick ass I wish I was not in school. When I was in the RAAF believe me we were spoiling for a fight.
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 10:26
I'd rather we had a leader with a logical brain, a genuine sense of fairness and compassion and a desire to base policy on the strength of research and scientific evidence rather than prejudice and self-interest. Looks like we both lucked out. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 10:47
The Falklands War (257 British dead, 3 civilan dead & 649 Argentine dead) = Maggie "kicking ass"? 
If that = guts, I'm happily gutless. -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 10:57
You embody everything I hate about the military. No personal offense meant by that. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 11:06
Yeah......whatever! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: August 02 2010 at 11:59
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 03 2010 at 06:41
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No response?
Must be rapid incursion - In, drop an idiot bomb, then out. -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 03 2010 at 06:49
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 03 2010 at 07:14
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It's a all a game really. As Cameron has said before, support for Israel is 'in the conservative party's DNA'
He's in coalition with the liberals and his 'Gaza = prison camp' was probably little more than a cynical attempt to appeal to LibDem voters, who are more likely to concern themselves with the plight of Palestinians in Gaza. Netanyahu will be equally well versed in doublespeak and political subterfuge, and will understand Camerons position, I'm sure. He knows in reality, if push came to shove, Britain will always be there for Israel. As for Pakistan, yes that was probably ill judged. Most people know there are AQ cells operating in Pakistan, to what extent if any, they are knowingly linked to central government, is a complete unknown outside the offices of Pakistani intelligence, and the intelligence services of some other nations. If Cameron knows something we dont, he should keep his lip buttoned and toe the line. We need Pakistan on side. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 10:08
No response? When the f**king Argies found out that the one of the Gurgka regiments were on the wat they were scared sh*tless. It was a response. Don't f**k with the Brts. Maggie was strong. ------------- |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 10:15
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 10:25
Yes, of course we would miss a more collaborative Britain (like under Blair)  ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 10:45
With all due respect Ian (and bearing in mind this digression is completely off topic & apologies to the thread starter), my reference was to your use of the expressions "Maggie went to the Falklands to kick ass" and "When I was in the RAAF believe me we were spoiling for a fight." Such gung ho language does no credit to you or to the armed forces involved, be they British or Argentine (which is what I expect you meant when you referred to the 649 "  ing Argies" who were killed).
Whether or not the 27 day 1984 Falklands war was justified/necessary or not, those who died on both sides of the armed conflict which ensued deserve more respect than has been shown by your posts. Think on. 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 15:40
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Great post, Jim.
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Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: August 05 2010 at 10:43
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I think Cameron has started taking 'foot in mouth' lessons from Boris Johnson -------------  
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 08 2010 at 21:58
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Well, while the conservatives are cutting things left, right and centre nullo discrimine and considering new ways to charge students for earning more money later in life and therefore generally paying much more back in tax anyway... (and a headline today read that Cameron was going to war on benefits cheats... um... am I mistaken in thinking that tax frauds cost us much, much more and are, frankly, unless you are yourself a tax fraud, more or less analogous to benefit fraud?) It's nice to know that the government are publicly crushing one minor scheme being cut despite pretty reasonable recommendations because it'd get Cameron compared to Thatcher (though mammellon Cameron doesn't really have the same ring to it) and annoy mumsnet. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10904958 - LINK! The current coalition government seems entirely inconsistent to me... brutal cuts wherever they can be made but continued indulgence in conservative pet projects (free schools, for instance) and an outright avoidance of any cut that'd bring an immediate and severe public reaction or typify the conservative party as acting in the mould of Thatcher. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: August 09 2010 at 02:38
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^ ...like they have done a U-turn on cancelling the kiddies milk - the public outcry achieved this, and they reckon they were only "considering" it...
------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 11:37
(um, they were definitely only considering it - the thing went public as a leaked email from the consideration process. The woman in charge gave reasonable arguments about its value-for-money and said cutting it should be strongly considered...) I don't think the outcry achieved much other than spotlighting something that would probably have been scrapped because it makes Cameron look like Thatcher. Personally, I think if the conservatives are going to brutally cut things touching on almost every aspect of life, they should have given this proper consideration (by which I mean, run it through regular process) along with everything else rather than bending before the outcry of mumsnet. I think a government that is planning on rough cuts to things that actually are quite beneficial to the country (for instance, the police, education, higher education), it should have the balls to scrap a free milk scheme or at least to properly consider scrapping a free milk scheme rather than quashing it publically at the first hurdle. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 11:41
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Redundant post. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 14 2010 at 12:33
| Posts hidden due to racism. Racism is against PA rules and can get you removed from the site. |
Posted By: freedom-of-speech
Date Posted: August 18 2010 at 18:58
| Unfortunately the faceless wonder, due to too much inbreeding (see his wife also), cameron is turning into thatcher..........the lower classes are being pulverised, but the opulent few get off scot free....welcome to the conservatives with the puppet libdems...we're doomed. |