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Topic: AccentsPosted By: Epignosis
Subject: Accents
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 18:48
How do different accents of your language sound to you? I'm not asking about idioms- just the accent. In other words, what is the prevailing attitude toward a given accent in your country / region?
For example:
Southern US accents can rub someone one of two ways here- as unintelligent redneck or as suave and easygoing. It's usually the former.
Bronx and New Jersey accents are painful to the ear. Sorry. "Joawnny gaht owol Fs owon owol of his repowt cahds."
The Yooper accent is just amusing to us (here). "Hoose?" "Bo-ut?"
British accents generally have an air of authority or superiority (A cockney accent is the big exception).
So how do different accents of your language (including foreign ones) sound to y'all?
Replies: Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 18:52
I've been told that the people of Australia are the only people in the world without an accent. (I was told this by an Australian.)
I like the Liverpool accent. It kinda has a musical cadence to it.
The Jamaican accent can be quite nice.
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 18:58
I like Southern Us and minnesota/Scandinavian accents........Not big on the east coast sound, though it is funny how they have such a foul tongue....man you Jersey dudes can swear your ass off.
As much as I love Italian, the accent drives me nuts when they sing in English. That isn't a derogatory statement I hope!....it's pretty obvious I love Italians. I just think most Italians vocalists, for some reason, slaughter English while singing.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 18:59
zappaholic wrote:
I've been told that the people of Australia are the only people in the world without an accent. (I was told this by an Australian.)
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 19:05
I'm proud to say people from my city in my country of origin are the closest to accent-free in all of the Spanish (Castillian really) language in South America, alongside people from Mexico who speak proper Castillian.
People from the coastal regions sound quite easygoing but not serious. Colombians sound like they're singing a little bit but like they're always having fun. Argentinians just sound like they're making fun of you all the time (I like the accent). Venezuelans and most people from the caribbean countries destroy the Spanish (Castillian) language horribly. Please don't get your ideas about properly spoken Spanish if you just have heard it from someone from Dominican Republic or Cuba or Puerto Rico (it's horrendous, though as always, not everybody is the same) .
As for English, I like country-like accent that manages not to sound redneck-ish. I think on John Wayne in his westerns, that's a country English that commands respect and sounds welcoming, warm. British English sounds a little pedantic at times but I have to say when it's properly used it sounds glorious. But poorly spoken British-English is quite unintelligible, just like some forms of country-and-urban American English.
I love the sound of a properly spoken language. I try (even if the grammar fails from time to time) but the result is a weird accent that most everybody in my job tell me doesn't sound immediately hispanic but quite Slavish. In fact, they call me "Russian" at work
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 19:12
What do Americans who speak Spanish sound like to you? How does it strike you?
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 19:20
It's difficult to convey in words, the typical "gringo" Spanish is never free of a strong accent and the apparent inability to properly roll the "rrrrs" . Sometimes it sounds so imperfect that it feels like some people really had to learn to speak Spanish and didn't really want to do it. To be honest, it just sounds funny in most cases, but the better cases sound quite to-the-point-ish, direct, not arrogant nor humble but, how can I say it, just on point. It has a lot to do with cultural elements. Besides the pronunciation itself, the tone, the way things are said, are different in that there is a lot more of display of feelings imbedded in words when hispanics speaks Spanish than the more direct, dry, yet matter-of-factly way that Americans use when speaking Spanish.
They make the language sound more direct and utilitarian, we can say, even if the "rrrs" are left unrolled
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 19:23
The T wrote:
It's difficult to convey in words, the typical "gringo" Spanish is never free of a strong accent and the apparent inability to properly roll the "rrrrs" . Sometimes it sounds so imperfect that it feels like some people really had to learn to speak Spanish and didn't really want to do it. To be honest, it just sounds funny in most cases, but the better cases sound quite to-the-point-ish, direct, not arrogant nor humble but, how can I say it, just on point. It has a lot to do with cultural elements. Besides the pronunciation itself, the tone, the way things are said, are different in that there is a lot more of display of feelings imbedded in words when hispanics speaks Spanish than the more direct, dry, yet matter-of-factly way that Americans use when speaking Spanish.
They make the language sound more direct and utilitarian, we can say, even if the "rrrs" are left unrolled
I can roll my tongue. However, I think (translate in my head) about what I want to say in Spanish. I also have difficulty with the verb tenses, so I tend to speak in the present tense.
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 20:08
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 20:17
^ I remember that clip, he's excellent though his Southern US is too exaggerated as I recall
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 20:56
That facial hair ...
------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:01
People from around Indiana are known (not known?) to have really strong accents. Of course it varies, and the yip-yappiness of some country people irritates me even as a native a lot of the time.
Here's a sample. http://web.ku.edu/~idea/northamerica/usa/indiana/indiana2.mp3" rel="nofollow - http://web.ku.edu/~idea/northamerica/usa/indiana/indiana2.mp3
I try to control my accent and be mindful of the words I say, perhaps as an insecurity to being seen as a bumpkin or something.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:04
The kid in the video has a very good American accent. I wouldn't have known he was English.
Few things give me more pleasure than hearing British folks attempting American accents. There's just something delightful about it. The most common error is to overemphasize the differences, such as hitting the first syllable a little too hard in the word "research."
EDIT: Here's another video in a similar vein. Is the trans-continental accent not the sexiest thing you have ever heard?
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:11
Atavachron wrote:
^ I remember that clip, he's excellent though his Southern US is too exaggerated as I recall
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:19
I am fortunate to speak 7 languages fluently (no talent there , learned them very young!), so accents come rather easily. I spoke Hungarian at home, went to French school , lived in an English neighborhood (Montreal) , had a Spanish tutor (cubano no es lindo!) on Saturdays and a German one on Sunday. I can also do various Brit accents, Scot is somehow easier than Irish (when I finally realized that if your jaw doesn't move from alcohol stupor, the tongue will do Irish naturally! ) , Afrikaner is quite hard to master, while English with a German accent is easy, French the same and Italian/Spanish also. Portuguese is not as pretty as Brazilian (they talk like they play futbol!) . As for my mother tongue, Hungarian is like an alien language from Mars with no resemblance to anything else.......
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:21
Here's me reading a paragraph from Game of Thrones. Not too intense of an accent, no?
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:22
Epignosis wrote:
The Amy Walker bit was good except the Charleston accent is way dated.
An interesting point. I find the temporal differences in accents fascinating. For example, the way people speak in American films from the 1930's is drastically different than the way they speak now. It's a shame that recording technology is so new and we have no idea what people sounded like several centuries ago.
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:23
tszirmay wrote:
I am fortunate to speak 7 languages fluently (no talent there , learned them very young!), so accents come rather easily. I spoke Hungarian at home, went to French school , lived in an English neighborhood (Montreal) , had a Spanish tutor (cubano no es lindo!) on Saturdays and a German one on Sunday. I can also do various Brit accents, Scot is somehow easier than Irish (when I finally realized that if your jaw doesn't move from alcohol stupor, the tongue will do Irish naturally! ) , Afrikaner is quite hard to master, while English with a German accent is easy, French the same and Italian/Spanish also. Portuguese is not as pretty as Brazilian (they talk like they play futbol!) . As for my mother tongue, Hungarian is like an alien language from Mars with no resemblance to anything else.......
I cannot imagine being fluent in three languages, much less seven.
This is one of America's biggest problems- a pride in multilingualism.
Here's me reading a paragraph from Game of Thrones. Not too intense of an accent, no?
I still say you have a nice voice, and I can't hear an accent personally.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:25
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Amy Walker bit was good except the Charleston accent is way dated.
An interesting point. I find the temporal differences in accents fascinating. For example, the way people speak in American films from the 1930's is drastically different than the way they speak now. It's a shame that recording technology is so new and we have no idea what people sounded like several centuries ago.
Indeed. However, some linguists are able to piece such things together. I think Beowulf can be recited close to its original language, can it not?
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:27
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Amy Walker bit was good except the Charleston accent is way dated.
An interesting point. I find the temporal differences in accents fascinating. For example, the way people speak in American films from the 1930's is drastically different than the way they speak now. It's a shame that recording technology is so new and we have no idea what people sounded like several centuries ago.
Indeed. However, some linguists are able to piece such things together. I think Beowulf can be recited close to its original language, can it not?
Yes, but then there's no way of checking to see if they got it right, is there?
I took a History of the English Language class in college and my teacher read some Old English aloud. To my ears, it was staggeringly lovely.
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:28
Here's me reading a paragraph from Game of Thrones. Not too intense of an accent, no?
Too plain, I'd say.
(Not that you plain on narrating the series)
And you're no Morgan Freeman.
Eh, I'm not an actor. Just a sample of the dialect ifyou can call it that. It's probably not as true to life. Get a few beers in me and I'll let loose with it.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:28
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am fortunate to speak 7 languages fluently (no talent there , learned them very young!), so accents come rather easily. I spoke Hungarian at home, went to French school , lived in an English neighborhood (Montreal) , had a Spanish tutor (cubano no es lindo!) on Saturdays and a German one on Sunday. I can also do various Brit accents, Scot is somehow easier than Irish (when I finally realized that if your jaw doesn't move from alcohol stupor, the tongue will do Irish naturally! ) , Afrikaner is quite hard to master, while English with a German accent is easy, French the same and Italian/Spanish also. Portuguese is not as pretty as Brazilian (they talk like they play futbol!) . As for my mother tongue, Hungarian is like an alien language from Mars with no resemblance to anything else.......
I cannot imagine being fluent in three languages, much less seven.
This is one of America's biggest problems- a pride in multilingualism.
Ultra-nationalism is the main reason why this happens! People actually believe that learning another language requires a complete rebuild of all that one has learned from the mother tongue . FALSE! It has been proven that a normal average child between the ages of 5 and 14 with a basic IQ can absorb up to 10 languages SIMULTANEOUSLY . The young brain is a massive sponge with compartments that store this knowledge forever. Problem is finding the right drawer later. This is no talent, just another set of learning tools, like skiing, skating, kicking a ball or throwing a pitch. One just has to look at all the prog sub-genres as inspiration!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:29
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The Amy Walker bit was good except the Charleston accent is way dated.
An interesting point. I find the temporal differences in accents fascinating. For example, the way people speak in American films from the 1930's is drastically different than the way they speak now. It's a shame that recording technology is so new and we have no idea what people sounded like several centuries ago.
Indeed. However, some linguists are able to piece such things together. I think Beowulf can be recited close to its original language, can it not?
Yes, but then there's no way of checking to see if they got it right, is there?
I took a History of the English Language class in college and my teacher read some Old English aloud. To my ears, it was staggeringly lovely.
A lecturer convinced me. But that was some time ago, and I doubt more than I accept these days.
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:31
Uh....wat.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:33
tszirmay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am fortunate to speak 7 languages fluently (no talent there , learned them very young!), so accents come rather easily. I spoke Hungarian at home, went to French school , lived in an English neighborhood (Montreal) , had a Spanish tutor (cubano no es lindo!) on Saturdays and a German one on Sunday. I can also do various Brit accents, Scot is somehow easier than Irish (when I finally realized that if your jaw doesn't move from alcohol stupor, the tongue will do Irish naturally! ) , Afrikaner is quite hard to master, while English with a German accent is easy, French the same and Italian/Spanish also. Portuguese is not as pretty as Brazilian (they talk like they play futbol!) . As for my mother tongue, Hungarian is like an alien language from Mars with no resemblance to anything else.......
I cannot imagine being fluent in three languages, much less seven.
This is one of America's biggest problems- a pride in multilingualism.
Ultra-nationalism is the main reason why this happens! People actually believe that learning another language requires a complete rebuild of all that one has learned from the mother tongue . FALSE! It has been proven that a normal average child between the ages of 5 and 14 with a basic IQ can absorb up to 10 languages SIMULTANEOUSLY . The young brain is a massive sponge with compartments that store this knowledge forever. Problem is finding the right drawer later. This is no talent, just another set of learning tools, like skiing, skating, kicking a ball or throwing a pitch. One just has to look at all the prog sub-genres as inspiration!
I misspoke in my previous post. I meant to say, "a pride in monolingualism."
I have, off and on, been learning to speak Spanish. I can somewhat understand some of my Hispanic students.
One student talked of "chaka chaka," thinking I did not know anything about the phrase.
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:36
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am fortunate to speak 7 languages fluently (no talent there , learned them very young!), so accents come rather easily. I spoke Hungarian at home, went to French school , lived in an English neighborhood (Montreal) , had a Spanish tutor (cubano no es lindo!) on Saturdays and a German one on Sunday. I can also do various Brit accents, Scot is somehow easier than Irish (when I finally realized that if your jaw doesn't move from alcohol stupor, the tongue will do Irish naturally! ) , Afrikaner is quite hard to master, while English with a German accent is easy, French the same and Italian/Spanish also. Portuguese is not as pretty as Brazilian (they talk like they play futbol!) . As for my mother tongue, Hungarian is like an alien language from Mars with no resemblance to anything else.......
I cannot imagine being fluent in three languages, much less seven.
This is one of America's biggest problems- a pride in multilingualism.
Ultra-nationalism is the main reason why this happens! People actually believe that learning another language requires a complete rebuild of all that one has learned from the mother tongue . FALSE! It has been proven that a normal average child between the ages of 5 and 14 with a basic IQ can absorb up to 10 languages SIMULTANEOUSLY . The young brain is a massive sponge with compartments that store this knowledge forever. Problem is finding the right drawer later. This is no talent, just another set of learning tools, like skiing, skating, kicking a ball or throwing a pitch. One just has to look at all the prog sub-genres as inspiration!
I misspoke in my previous post. I meant to say, "a pride in monolingualism."
I have, off and on, been learning to speak Spanish. I can somewhat understand some of my Hispanic students.
One student talked of "chaka chaka," thinking I did not know anything about the phrase.
I replied, "Yo tengo tres niños!"
Buena respuesta! Spanish is probably the easiest language because there are no pronunciation exceptions, you say it the way you read it! Unlike absurd English with its knight (naite) and french with all the strange vowel combos (o, eau, au etc...)
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:39
Southern US: not my fav Redneck: The word "idiot" comes to mind Texas: I like it Bronx/New Jersey: meh Canadian: I'm very envious Cockney: Birt's equivalent of our New Jersey, except worse Manchester: I'm very envious Posh: ew Australian: meh Latin American: meh Mid-west: seems normal to me
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:40
tszirmay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am fortunate to speak 7 languages fluently (no talent there , learned them very young!), so accents come rather easily. I spoke Hungarian at home, went to French school , lived in an English neighborhood (Montreal) , had a Spanish tutor (cubano no es lindo!) on Saturdays and a German one on Sunday. I can also do various Brit accents, Scot is somehow easier than Irish (when I finally realized that if your jaw doesn't move from alcohol stupor, the tongue will do Irish naturally! ) , Afrikaner is quite hard to master, while English with a German accent is easy, French the same and Italian/Spanish also. Portuguese is not as pretty as Brazilian (they talk like they play futbol!) . As for my mother tongue, Hungarian is like an alien language from Mars with no resemblance to anything else.......
I cannot imagine being fluent in three languages, much less seven.
This is one of America's biggest problems- a pride in multilingualism.
Ultra-nationalism is the main reason why this happens! People actually believe that learning another language requires a complete rebuild of all that one has learned from the mother tongue . FALSE! It has been proven that a normal average child between the ages of 5 and 14 with a basic IQ can absorb up to 10 languages SIMULTANEOUSLY . The young brain is a massive sponge with compartments that store this knowledge forever. Problem is finding the right drawer later. This is no talent, just another set of learning tools, like skiing, skating, kicking a ball or throwing a pitch. One just has to look at all the prog sub-genres as inspiration!
I misspoke in my previous post. I meant to say, "a pride in monolingualism."
I have, off and on, been learning to speak Spanish. I can somewhat understand some of my Hispanic students.
One student talked of "chaka chaka," thinking I did not know anything about the phrase.
I replied, "Yo tengo tres niños!"
Buena respuesta! Spanish is probably the easiest language because there are no pronunciation exceptions, you say it the way you read it! Unlike absurd English with its knight (naite) and french with all the strange vowel combos (o, eau, au etc...)
English's only defense is this: English is not a "pure" language. It is a mutt of many different languages: Greek, Latin, German, etc. We borrow from some many languages that we have no identity, and then it's even more confusing since we add new words to it every year that creep in due to pop culture and technology.
Here's me reading a paragraph from Game of Thrones. Not too intense of an accent, no?
I still say you have a nice voice, and I can't hear an accent personally.
But he has one, depending on whom you ask. Right Brits? Aussies?
That's ture, not to mention I live quite close to him.
stonebeard wrote:
Uh....wat.
I was going to post that but couldn't remember which subreddit I saw it in.
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:44
I don't like Spanish. I don't know why, but I just don't like the sound and can't motivate myself to learn it. I love Italian, however, and am a language enthusiast in general. I have studied a good half dozen, but sadly have never mastered a second language to the point of fluidity.
-------------
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:45
thellama73 wrote:
I don't like Spanish. I don't know why, but I just don't like the sound and can't motivate myself to learn it. I love Italian, however, and am a language enthusiast in general. I have studied a good half dozen, but sadly have never mastered a second language to the point of fluidity.
I truly believe that to be a shortcoming of America- whether public ed or private or home school. What say you?
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:48
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't like Spanish. I don't know why, but I just don't like the sound and can't motivate myself to learn it. I love Italian, however, and am a language enthusiast in general. I have studied a good half dozen, but sadly have never mastered a second language to the point of fluidity.
I truly believe that to be a shortcoming of America- whether public ed or private or home school. What say you?
I don't really agree. I think it's our geographical isolation rather than a fault of the education system. In Europe it's simply practical to learn several languages because of all the nearby countries, and you're bound to be exposed a lot to other languages. This is why so many people in the American southwest speak Spanish-they're around it all the time.
Someone living in, say, Ohio, has no reason to learn another language and is unlikely to encounter much exposure. Language is a very hard thing to acquire without consistent exposure.
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:54
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't like Spanish. I don't know why, but I just don't like the sound and can't motivate myself to learn it. I love Italian, however, and am a language enthusiast in general. I have studied a good half dozen, but sadly have never mastered a second language to the point of fluidity.
I truly believe that to be a shortcoming of America- whether public ed or private or home school. What say you?
I don't really agree. I think it's our geographical isolation rather than a fault of the education system. In Europe it's simply practical to learn several languages because of all the nearby countries, and you're bound to be exposed a lot to other languages. This is why so many people in the American southwest speak Spanish-they're around it all the time.
Someone living in, say, Ohio, has no reason to learn another language and is unlikely to encounter much exposure. Language is a very hard thing to acquire without consistent exposure.
Not necessarily true, you are an apologist for linguistic secularism. Internet and globalization has eliminated that excuse . There are few uni-ethnic areas left in America. 40 years ago being a polyglot in Europe was very rare , only among the diplomatic corps and the elite. But today , even Italians and Hungarians learn English. Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:55
How is this for EXPOSURE :
I got a good story for you, in 1980 I was in LA to give my
mom away to her new surfer husband and one fine Sunday, I put on a suit and tie
and went for a walk (Who walks in LA= stupid tourists!) down the celebrated Sunset
Strip. As perhaps many know, the good neighborhoods collide with very bad ones,
simply by crossing the street (good Beverly Hills,
ok West Hollywood , bad Hollywood, good HancockPark
and finally landed in East LA , after going
below an underpass. Everything was now in Spanish and it was not a pretty sight.
There had been ugly riots there recently and as I turned to withdraw, I heard two
Chicano dudes in leather jackets playing with a switchblade and mumbling in Spanish
“Look at the pretty gringo, let’s cut his cojones off!”).
Running away? Stooooopid move, so I went up to them and in
perfect Spanish told them “I am from Canada and I am looking for the
church!” Their jovial response was “Conyo, hermano, come with us, we take you
there” backslapping me and being super courteous. When I got to the church, the
priest asked me if I was suicidal, as not even the cops dare to show up in this
section of Los Angeles
DURING THE DAY . Only later did I realize that they knew very well that I was
no Latino brother (even though my tan was very rich) but because I spoke their
language on their turf, I was to be respected. So I kept my testicles …..
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:58
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't like Spanish. I don't know why, but I just don't like the sound and can't motivate myself to learn it. I love Italian, however, and am a language enthusiast in general. I have studied a good half dozen, but sadly have never mastered a second language to the point of fluidity.
I truly believe that to be a shortcoming of America- whether public ed or private or home school. What say you?
I don't really agree. I think it's our geographical isolation rather than a fault of the education system. In Europe it's simply practical to learn several languages because of all the nearby countries, and you're bound to be exposed a lot to other languages. This is why so many people in the American southwest speak Spanish-they're around it all the time.
Someone living in, say, Ohio, has no reason to learn another language and is unlikely to encounter much exposure. Language is a very hard thing to acquire without consistent exposure.
Not necessarily true, you are an apologist for linguistic secularism. Internet and globalization has eliminated that excuse . There are few uni-ethnic areas left in America. 40 years ago being a polyglot in Europe was very rare , only among the diplomatic corps and the elite. But today , even Italians and Hungarians learn English. Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
I don't really see that it contradicts what I said. Most of the internet is in English, so English speakers will not encounter foreign languages consistently unless they seek it out. It is also hard to become fluent through only reading and without speaking or listening. More Europeans are learning English today, presumably because of the influx of English media (movies, tv and the internet)
-------------
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 21:58
tszirmay wrote:
Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
It may have benefits, but I'd say they're fringe benefits for most Americans at best.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:04
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't like Spanish. I don't know why, but I just don't like the sound and can't motivate myself to learn it. I love Italian, however, and am a language enthusiast in general. I have studied a good half dozen, but sadly have never mastered a second language to the point of fluidity.
I truly believe that to be a shortcoming of America- whether public ed or private or home school. What say you?
I don't really agree. I think it's our geographical isolation rather than a fault of the education system. In Europe it's simply practical to learn several languages because of all the nearby countries, and you're bound to be exposed a lot to other languages. This is why so many people in the American southwest speak Spanish-they're around it all the time.
Someone living in, say, Ohio, has no reason to learn another language and is unlikely to encounter much exposure. Language is a very hard thing to acquire without consistent exposure.
Not necessarily true, you are an apologist for linguistic secularism. Internet and globalization has eliminated that excuse . There are few uni-ethnic areas left in America. 40 years ago being a polyglot in Europe was very rare , only among the diplomatic corps and the elite. But today , even Italians and Hungarians learn English. Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
I don't really see that it contradicts what I said. Most of the internet is in English, so English speakers will not encounter foreign languages consistently unless they seek it out. It is also hard to become fluent through only reading and without speaking or listening. More Europeans are learning English today, presumably because of the influx of English media (movies, tv and the internet)
That is not new , mon ami! What about Spanish (namely Mexican TV) , why do only latinos watch it? Because , most Americans believe that only one language is necessary and paramount ! Stonebeard even agreed to that! As if learning another language has no benefits! Well it saved my balls!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:04
tszirmay wrote:
How is this for EXPOSURE :
I got a good story for you, in 1980 I was in LA to give my
mom away to her new surfer husband and one fine Sunday, I put on a suit and tie
and went for a walk (Who walks in LA= stupid tourists!) down the celebrated Sunset
Strip. As perhaps many know, the good neighborhoods collide with very bad ones,
simply by crossing the street (good Beverly Hills,
ok West Hollywood , bad Hollywood, good HancockPark
and finally landed in East LA , after going
below an underpass. Everything was now in Spanish and it was not a pretty sight.
There had been ugly riots there recently and as I turned to withdraw, I heard two
Chicano dudes in leather jackets playing with a switchblade and mumbling in Spanish
“Look at the pretty gringo, let’s cut his cojones off!”).
Running away? Stooooopid move, so I went up to them and in
perfect Spanish told them “I am from Canada and I am looking for the
church!” Their jovial response was “Conyo, hermano, come with us, we take you
there” backslapping me and being super courteous. When I got to the church, the
priest asked me if I was suicidal, as not even the cops dare to show up in this
section of Los Angeles
DURING THE DAY . Only later did I realize that they knew very well that I was
no Latino brother (even though my tan was very rich) but because I spoke their
language on their turf, I was to be respected. So I kept my testicles …..
Jesus, man. Around here, we don't worry about knives.
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:07
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
It may have benefits, but I'd say they're fringe benefits for most Americans at best.
Americans are culturally fringe because they believe that only their culture counts.
This is one of the proving points that makes the USA attitude so incomprehensible to even allies and friends, like us Canadians. This center of the universe thingy!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:09
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
How is this for EXPOSURE :
I got a good story for you, in 1980 I was in LA to give my
mom away to her new surfer husband and one fine Sunday, I put on a suit and tie
and went for a walk (Who walks in LA= stupid tourists!) down the celebrated Sunset
Strip. As perhaps many know, the good neighborhoods collide with very bad ones,
simply by crossing the street (good Beverly Hills,
ok West Hollywood , bad Hollywood, good HancockPark
and finally landed in East LA , after going
below an underpass. Everything was now in Spanish and it was not a pretty sight.
There had been ugly riots there recently and as I turned to withdraw, I heard two
Chicano dudes in leather jackets playing with a switchblade and mumbling in Spanish
“Look at the pretty gringo, let’s cut his cojones off!”).
Running away? Stooooopid move, so I went up to them and in
perfect Spanish told them “I am from Canada and I am looking for the
church!” Their jovial response was “Conyo, hermano, come with us, we take you
there” backslapping me and being super courteous. When I got to the church, the
priest asked me if I was suicidal, as not even the cops dare to show up in this
section of Los Angeles
DURING THE DAY . Only later did I realize that they knew very well that I was
no Latino brother (even though my tan was very rich) but because I spoke their
language on their turf, I was to be respected. So I kept my testicles …..
Jesus, man. Around here, we don't worry about knives.
That 's because you have guns, brother! And the right to use them!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:11
tszirmay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
How is this for EXPOSURE :
I got a good story for you, in 1980 I was in LA to give my
mom away to her new surfer husband and one fine Sunday, I put on a suit and tie
and went for a walk (Who walks in LA= stupid tourists!) down the celebrated Sunset
Strip. As perhaps many know, the good neighborhoods collide with very bad ones,
simply by crossing the street (good Beverly Hills,
ok West Hollywood , bad Hollywood, good HancockPark
and finally landed in East LA , after going
below an underpass. Everything was now in Spanish and it was not a pretty sight.
There had been ugly riots there recently and as I turned to withdraw, I heard two
Chicano dudes in leather jackets playing with a switchblade and mumbling in Spanish
“Look at the pretty gringo, let’s cut his cojones off!”).
Running away? Stooooopid move, so I went up to them and in
perfect Spanish told them “I am from Canada and I am looking for the
church!” Their jovial response was “Conyo, hermano, come with us, we take you
there” backslapping me and being super courteous. When I got to the church, the
priest asked me if I was suicidal, as not even the cops dare to show up in this
section of Los Angeles
DURING THE DAY . Only later did I realize that they knew very well that I was
no Latino brother (even though my tan was very rich) but because I spoke their
language on their turf, I was to be respected. So I kept my testicles …..
Jesus, man. Around here, we don't worry about knives.
That 's because you have guns, brother! And the right to use them!
True, but I wonder-
If we could communicate better, even in our native language or in another tongue if needed, would we need such a....
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:12
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
How is this for EXPOSURE :
I got a good story for you, in 1980 I was in LA to give my
mom away to her new surfer husband and one fine Sunday, I put on a suit and tie
and went for a walk (Who walks in LA= stupid tourists!) down the celebrated Sunset
Strip. As perhaps many know, the good neighborhoods collide with very bad ones,
simply by crossing the street (good Beverly Hills,
ok West Hollywood , bad Hollywood, good HancockPark
and finally landed in East LA , after going
below an underpass. Everything was now in Spanish and it was not a pretty sight.
There had been ugly riots there recently and as I turned to withdraw, I heard two
Chicano dudes in leather jackets playing with a switchblade and mumbling in Spanish
“Look at the pretty gringo, let’s cut his cojones off!”).
Running away? Stooooopid move, so I went up to them and in
perfect Spanish told them “I am from Canada and I am looking for the
church!” Their jovial response was “Conyo, hermano, come with us, we take you
there” backslapping me and being super courteous. When I got to the church, the
priest asked me if I was suicidal, as not even the cops dare to show up in this
section of Los Angeles
DURING THE DAY . Only later did I realize that they knew very well that I was
no Latino brother (even though my tan was very rich) but because I spoke their
language on their turf, I was to be respected. So I kept my testicles …..
Jesus, man. Around here, we don't worry about knives.
That 's because you have guns, brother! And the right to use them!
True, but I wonder-
If we could communicate better, even in our native language or in another tongue if needed, would we need such a....
...of course we would. I work at a school.
Are you a teacher?
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:15
The most honorable of professions. The art of communicating information is the ultimate vocation. Now imagine if you could talk to each of your students in their mother tongues. Do you not think that would have a positive effect?
I'd say a miraculous one! Sir! (To Sir with Love!)
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:15
tszirmay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
How is this for EXPOSURE :
I got a good story for you, in 1980 I was in LA to give my
mom away to her new surfer husband and one fine Sunday, I put on a suit and tie
and went for a walk (Who walks in LA= stupid tourists!) down the celebrated Sunset
Strip. As perhaps many know, the good neighborhoods collide with very bad ones,
simply by crossing the street (good Beverly Hills,
ok West Hollywood , bad Hollywood, good HancockPark
and finally landed in East LA , after going
below an underpass. Everything was now in Spanish and it was not a pretty sight.
There had been ugly riots there recently and as I turned to withdraw, I heard two
Chicano dudes in leather jackets playing with a switchblade and mumbling in Spanish
“Look at the pretty gringo, let’s cut his cojones off!”).
Running away? Stooooopid move, so I went up to them and in
perfect Spanish told them “I am from Canada and I am looking for the
church!” Their jovial response was “Conyo, hermano, come with us, we take you
there” backslapping me and being super courteous. When I got to the church, the
priest asked me if I was suicidal, as not even the cops dare to show up in this
section of Los Angeles
DURING THE DAY . Only later did I realize that they knew very well that I was
no Latino brother (even though my tan was very rich) but because I spoke their
language on their turf, I was to be respected. So I kept my testicles …..
Jesus, man. Around here, we don't worry about knives.
That 's because you have guns, brother! And the right to use them!
True, but I wonder-
If we could communicate better, even in our native language or in another tongue if needed, would we need such a....
...of course we would. I work at a school.
Are you a teacher?
I am in my fourth year a teacher.
We had a riot last year during breakfast. It's a race thing- blacks vs. Native Americans.
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:17
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
It may have benefits, but I'd say they're fringe benefits for most Americans at best.
Americans are culturally fringe because they believe that only their culture counts.
This is one of the proving points that makes the USA attitude so incomprehensible to even allies and friends, like us Canadians. This center of the universe thingy!
I find your constant generalizations about Americans lacking curiosity and a desire to learn somewhat offensive.
As I've mentioned, I love language and take great pleasure in studying it, and I have been told that I have talent for it (as evidenced by my grades in my college major of Russian) but to become fluent as an adult requires an immense commitment of time and energy. I certainly believe learning other languages is valuable, but the truth is we rarely have opportunities or necessity to use languages other than English unless we specifically seek them out.
The benefit is not worth the cost for most of us. That doesn't mean we're lazy. And I still maintain thta it's easier to learn a foreign language growing up in a major city in a European country where one can have near constant exposure to the languages of tourists.
-------------
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:21
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
It's difficult to convey in words, the typical "gringo" Spanish is never free of a strong accent and the apparent inability to properly roll the "rrrrs" . Sometimes it sounds so imperfect that it feels like some people really had to learn to speak Spanish and didn't really want to do it. To be honest, it just sounds funny in most cases, but the better cases sound quite to-the-point-ish, direct, not arrogant nor humble but, how can I say it, just on point. It has a lot to do with cultural elements. Besides the pronunciation itself, the tone, the way things are said, are different in that there is a lot more of display of feelings imbedded in words when hispanics speaks Spanish than the more direct, dry, yet matter-of-factly way that Americans use when speaking Spanish.
They make the language sound more direct and utilitarian, we can say, even if the "rrrs" are left unrolled
I can roll my tongue. However, I think (translate in my head) about what I want to say in Spanish. I also have difficulty with the verb tenses, so I tend to speak in the present tense.
"Yo necessito una cerveza."
I would say that it is quite common not so much to hear only the present tense but also the infinitive. It's like hispanics who don't know much English and end up putting an "ing" at the end of any Spanish verb
Now of course I'm quite sure you are incapable of saying what you just said in Spanish in any other tense but the present one
-------------
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:27
)
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
It may have benefits, but I'd say they're fringe benefits for most Americans at best.
Americans are culturally fringe because they believe that only their culture counts.
This is one of the proving points that makes the USA attitude so incomprehensible to even allies and friends, like us Canadians. This center of the universe thingy!
I find your constant generalizations about Americans lacking curiosity and a desire to learn somewhat offensive.
As I've mentioned, I love language and take great pleasure in studying it, and I have been told that I have talent for it (as evidenced by my grades in my college major of Russian) but to become fluent as an adult requires an immense commitment of time and energy. I certainly believe learning other languages is valuable, but the truth is we rarely have opportunities or necessity to use languages other than English unless we specifically seek them out.
The benefit is not worth the cost for most of us. That doesn't mean we're lazy. And I still maintain thta it's easier to learn a foreign language growing up in a major city in a European country where one can have near constant exposure to the languages of tourists.
I am sorry that I somehow offended you but if you look at your post , you simply contradict yourself! I never said you were lazy (I am not a republican candidate). You state that learning another language has no benefits and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost? Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English" . My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:27
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
It's difficult to convey in words, the typical "gringo" Spanish is never free of a strong accent and the apparent inability to properly roll the "rrrrs" . Sometimes it sounds so imperfect that it feels like some people really had to learn to speak Spanish and didn't really want to do it. To be honest, it just sounds funny in most cases, but the better cases sound quite to-the-point-ish, direct, not arrogant nor humble but, how can I say it, just on point. It has a lot to do with cultural elements. Besides the pronunciation itself, the tone, the way things are said, are different in that there is a lot more of display of feelings imbedded in words when hispanics speaks Spanish than the more direct, dry, yet matter-of-factly way that Americans use when speaking Spanish.
They make the language sound more direct and utilitarian, we can say, even if the "rrrs" are left unrolled
I can roll my tongue. However, I think (translate in my head) about what I want to say in Spanish. I also have difficulty with the verb tenses, so I tend to speak in the present tense.
"Yo necessito una cerveza."
I would say that it is quite common not so much to hear only the present tense but also the infinitive. It's like hispanics who don't know much English and end up putting an "ing" at the end of any Spanish verb
Now of course I'm quite sure you are incapable of saying what you just said in Spanish in any other tense but the present one
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:29
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
It may have benefits, but I'd say they're fringe benefits for most Americans at best.
Americans are culturally fringe because they believe that only their culture counts.
This is one of the proving points that makes the USA attitude so incomprehensible to even allies and friends, like us Canadians. This center of the universe thingy!
It's not that we all think we're the center of the universe, it's that we don't see much of a reason to care. It's a subtle distinction.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:31
tszirmay wrote:
I am sorry that I somehow offended you but if you look at your post , you simply contradict yourself!
How so?
I never said you were lazy (I am not a republican candidate). You state that learning another language has no benefits
I never said any such thing. Of course it has benefits.
and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost?
Yes, every decision any of us makes is based on a cost-benefit analysis. I am an economist.
Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English"
Of course, but most Americans don't do business in China. I'm sure many of the ones that do learn Mandarin.
My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence.
-------------
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:35
The thing about having to learn other languages is a little overblown. If we in South America usually have to learn English it is because it is (or was) the most important language in the world, the language of business, the language of success one can say. Most everybody who graduates from a high-school like the one I graduated from can easily go to any English-speaking country and at least be able to decently survive (practice and actual desire to master the language will really make a difference). I see in America that most people graduating from high-school that I know can't speak any other language but English, possibly because of this pride for mono-lingualism, or maybe because in the US people always thought one just didn't need any other language. Nowadays, trend are shifting and I already know of school in my country focusing on Mandarin ... In Europe? Well, when you have 83476834 languages in 8 square kilometers it just makes sense to learn a few of those...
I would love if the people that come to live here would also be willing to learn the English language though....
-------------
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:38
The T wrote:
Most everybody who graduates from a high-school like the one I graduated from can easily go to any English-speaking country and at least be able to decently survive (practice and actual desire to master the language will really make a difference).
I am proud to say that I would be able to decently get by in Russia or Italy, and maybe Germany, even though I am far from fluent in any of them.
-------------
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:40
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Many Americans have said to my face that they only need English , why learn anything else? as if I were a moron!
It may have benefits, but I'd say they're fringe benefits for most Americans at best.
Americans are culturally fringe because they believe that only their culture counts.
This is one of the proving points that makes the USA attitude so incomprehensible to even allies and friends, like us Canadians. This center of the universe thingy!
It's not that we all think we're the center of the universe, it's that we don't see much of a reason to care. It's a subtle distinction.
Spoken like a true patriot ! No reason to care is the buzzword of the future. Sounds like Steve Wilson song
Thank you for proving my point so eloquently.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:43
I have little practical reason to learn another language, but I wish to. I have tried. Though I may master English, I have failed in learning Spanish (though I can communicate some), Hebrew, Russian, and others. I have despaired.
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:44
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
Most everybody who graduates from a high-school like the one I graduated from can easily go to any English-speaking country and at least be able to decently survive (practice and actual desire to master the language will really make a difference).
I am proud to say that I would be able to decently get by in Russia or Italy, and maybe Germany, even though I am far from fluent in any of them.
But the home-schooled master a perfect example of the US' school system can't hardly be....
-------------
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:45
^I saw a Bible in parallel Hebrew, Greek and English today and thought of you Rob. I have learned a little ancient Greek and Biblical Hebrew is on my to do list. Maybe one day I can read it in the original.
-------------
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:46
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am sorry that I somehow offended you but if you look at your post , you simply contradict yourself!
How so?
I never said you were lazy (I am not a republican candidate). You state that learning another language has no benefits
I never said any such thing. Of course it has benefits.
and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost?
Yes, every decision any of us makes is based on a cost-benefit analysis. I am an economist.
Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English"
Of course, but most Americans don't do business in China. I'm sure many of the ones that do learn Mandarin.
My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence.
Thank you so very much for being an economist! The world desperately needs Cartesian minds that eschew any kind of useless waste of time, effort and mostly money! The financial meltdown was caused by all those bleeding heart liberal polyglot multi-cultural dreamers who dropped the ball . Ooops , more generalizations, its perhaps time for me to say "au revoir, cher illumine"!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:47
thellama73 wrote:
^I saw a Bible in parallel Hebrew, Greek and English today and thought of you Rob. I have learned a little ancient Greek and Biblical Hebrew is on my to do list. Maybe one day I can read it in the original.
My skills are limited in either, but I for biblical purposes I can them a word at a time.
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:48
The T wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
Most everybody who graduates from a high-school like the one I graduated from can easily go to any English-speaking country and at least be able to decently survive (practice and actual desire to master the language will really make a difference).
I am proud to say that I would be able to decently get by in Russia or Italy, and maybe Germany, even though I am far from fluent in any of them.
But the home-schooled master a perfect example of the US' school system can't hardly be....
Of course I'm not representative of most Americans. I happen to have an interest in languages, which means that I get pleasure out of studying them even though I have no practical reason to do so. So for me, the cost to learn a little of several different languages does not seem very high. To people who don't share my interest, it would be, and who can blame them for making the rational decision to direct their energies to more fruitful endeavors?
-------------
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:50
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am sorry that I somehow offended you but if you look at your post , you simply contradict yourself!
How so?
I never said you were lazy (I am not a republican candidate). You state that learning another language has no benefits
I never said any such thing. Of course it has benefits.
and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost?
Yes, every decision any of us makes is based on a cost-benefit analysis. I am an economist.
Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English"
Of course, but most Americans don't do business in China. I'm sure many of the ones that do learn Mandarin.
My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence.
Thank you so very much for being an economist! The world desperately needs Cartesian minds that eschew any kind of useless waste of time, effort and mostly money! The financial meltdown was caused by all those bleeding heart liberal polyglot multi-cultural dreamers who dropped the ball . Ooops , more generalizations, its perhaps time for me to say "au revoir, cher illumine"!
I was trying to have a serious discussion with you, but I can see that you are only interested in being insulting, so forget it. You may have your American stereotypes, but you are not doing a lot to make your countrymen look good.
-------------
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:51
zappaholic wrote:
I've been told that the people of Australia are the only people in the world without an accent. (I was told this by an Australian.)
We most definitely do. The closest it gets to "without an accent" would be the upper-class British style English.
------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:53
tszirmay wrote:
Spoken like a true patriot !
Oh man this is just getting silly.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:57
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
Most everybody who graduates from a high-school like the one I graduated from can easily go to any English-speaking country and at least be able to decently survive (practice and actual desire to master the language will really make a difference).
I am proud to say that I would be able to decently get by in Russia or Italy, and maybe Germany, even though I am far from fluent in any of them.
But the home-schooled master a perfect example of the US' school system can't hardly be....
Of course I'm not representative of most Americans. I happen to have an interest in languages, which means that I get pleasure out of studying them even though I have no practical reason to do so. So for me, the cost to learn a little of several different languages does not seem very high. To people who don't share my interest, it would be, and who can blame them for making the rational decision to direct their energies to more fruitful endeavors?
I would say though that in the public school system, a few classes in foreign languages would be much more useful than a few subject that come in through one ear and leave out the other one almost as soon as the class ends.
-------------
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:59
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
I am sorry that I somehow offended you but if you look at your post , you simply contradict yourself!
How so?
I never said you were lazy (I am not a republican candidate). You state that learning another language has no benefits
I never said any such thing. Of course it has benefits.
and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost?
Yes, every decision any of us makes is based on a cost-benefit analysis. I am an economist.
Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English"
Of course, but most Americans don't do business in China. I'm sure many of the ones that do learn Mandarin.
My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence.
Thank you so very much for being an economist! The world desperately needs Cartesian minds that eschew any kind of useless waste of time, effort and mostly money! The financial meltdown was caused by all those bleeding heart liberal polyglot multi-cultural dreamers who dropped the ball . Ooops , more generalizations, its perhaps time for me to say "au revoir, cher illumine"!
I was trying to have a serious discussion with you, but I can see that you are only interested in being insulting, so forget it. You may have your American stereotypes, but you are not doing a lot to make your countrymen look good.
Which countrymen are you referring to? Since I have 7 cultures , which one is the stereotype? You feel insulted by my comments? You have no idea what an insult is then! You CLEARLY stated that as an economist, you base decision purely on a cost analysis basis, yet earlier you said CLEARLY that the COSTS outweigh the benefits . Which means , in English or in Russian, that there are no benefits if the cost is too high. And you are upset with me? I mean if you cannot see the contradiction in your statement , I am very very sorry for any kind of pain I may have caused. I am a historian and a businessman and I understand what cost benefit is. Its not the only GOD!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 22:59
^Probably. I think economics and personal finance should be taught in public schools as well.
-------------
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:01
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Spoken like a true patriot !
Oh man this is just getting silly.
But , sir, you said that there is no reason to care! Why do you care then?
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:04
QUOTE=thellama73]^Probably. I think economics and personal finance should be taught in public schools as well.
[/QUOTE]
Now that is finally well said. I concur wholeheartedly You see ,we can get along after all!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:04
tszirmay wrote:
Which countrymen are you referring to? Since I have 7 cultures , which one is the stereotype? You feel insulted by my comments? You have no idea what an insult is then! You CLEARLY stated that as an economist, you base decision purely on a cost analysis basis, yet earlier you said CLEARLY that the COSTS outweigh the benefits . Which means , in English or in Russian, that there are no benefits if the cost is too high. And you are upset with me? I mean if you cannot see the contradiction in your statement , I am very very sorry for any kind of pain I may have caused. I am a historian and a businessman and I understand what cost benefit is. Its not the only GOD!
If the cost outweighs the benefit, that doesn't mean there is no benefit to be had. A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it.
A cost is not merely financial. Time is a cost, energy is a cost. Like it or not, everything you do is based on an evaluation of cost versus benefit. If you respond to this post, it is because the pleasure or satisfaction you get from doing so is greater than the value of your time spent typing. I think you are misunderstanding the term.
As far as I can see, you still have not pointed out any contradiction I have made, so perhaps you need to be more explicit.
-------------
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:07
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Spoken like a true patriot !
Oh man this is just getting silly.
But , sir, you said that there is no reason to care! Why do you care then?
I said for most Americans, it doesn't really matter. Most people here in general aren't very exploratory, and not too willing to immerse in other cultures anyway, let alone the paltry amount of vacation time and benefits we get anyway. What would we do? Here, learning Spanish is possible, and almost everyone takes a couple semesters of a foreign language. I've had somewhere around 8 semesters in school and college. I didn't retain it because I never found a need or a desire to use it, and it wasn't necessary. Sure it could be useful, but I have other interests, and it's actually a lot of work to learn after the age of easy impression. I have other interests and other skills to develop, ones that I actually want to use.
If I were, and if most Americans were under constant strain for not being able to know Spanish, well I bet they would play a higher priority on it. As it is, no.
Sounds to me like you love languages a lot and can't understand why someone else wouldn't.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:13
thellama73 wrote:
^Probably. I think economics and personal finance should be taught in public schools as well.
Those two, some languages (obviously including English first), and math should be mandatory. As for all other subjects, let students move in their chosen paths, with available guidance of course.
History isn't neutral so I'm not sure it should always be taught. It can lead to bad things.
-------------
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:19
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Spoken like a true patriot !
Oh man this is just getting silly.
But , sir, you said that there is no reason to care! Why do you care then?
I said for most Americans, it doesn't really matter. Most people here in general aren't very exploratory, and not too willing to immerse in other cultures anyway, let alone the paltry amount of vacation time and benefits we get anyway. What would we do? Here, learning Spanish is possible, and almost everyone takes a couple semesters of a foreign language. I've had somewhere around 8 semesters in school and college. I didn't retain it because I never found a need or a desire to use it, and it wasn't necessary. Sure it could be useful, but I have other interests, and it's actually a lot of work to learn after the age of easy impression. I have other interests and other skills to develop, ones that I actually want to use.
If I were, and if most Americans were under constant strain for not being able to know Spanish, well I bet they would play a higher priority on it. As it is, no.
Sounds to me like you love languages a lot and can't understand why someone else wouldn't.
Not at all, my dear sir. Its not the languages but the culture that goes with it. If people from diverse cultures could communicate better with each other, there would be a gentler world. I earlier gave an example of an incident in LA in 1980, it illustrates that with only a few words, you can go from enemy to friend in an instant. But you are right, there are posts here in English and we don't understand each other. I easily understand people who rely only on their mother tongue. I just cannot accept that the reasons given are so flimsy......"Lack of benefits versus cost etc....". That sounds like old school nationalism to me.......You know the Us and Them syndrome....
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:22
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
-------------
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:26
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Which countrymen are you referring to? Since I have 7 cultures , which one is the stereotype? You feel insulted by my comments? You have no idea what an insult is then! You CLEARLY stated that as an economist, you base decision purely on a cost analysis basis, yet earlier you said CLEARLY that the COSTS outweigh the benefits . Which means , in English or in Russian, that there are no benefits if the cost is too high. And you are upset with me? I mean if you cannot see the contradiction in your statement , I am very very sorry for any kind of pain I may have caused. I am a historian and a businessman and I understand what cost benefit is. Its not the only GOD!
If the cost outweighs the benefit, that doesn't mean there is no benefit to be had. A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it.
A cost is not merely financial. Time is a cost, energy is a cost. Like it or not, everything you do is based on an evaluation of cost versus benefit. If you respond to this post, it is because the pleasure or satisfaction you get from doing so is greater than the value of your time spent typing. I think you are misunderstanding the term.
As far as I can see, you still have not pointed out any contradiction I have made, so perhaps you need to be more explicit.
A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it. Where is the benefit then, you walk away on foot. I guess its better for your cardio vascular . You see what I mean by contradiction? Perhaps as an economist or as an American dreaming of a car has an intrinsic value, giving one ambition or desire. But if you cannot have it , how can that have any real value? Only in the good old financially conscious USSR could one pay and then wait 10 years later to get their car . Again, I apologize but it seems we cannot agree on this issue of benefit and cost. I just understand profit (aka getting a return on your investment.). I believe culture does precisely that .
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:34
Well, from what I know nobody really gives a flying f%$k about the Russian accent. "Where's your accent from? Is it German? Ukrainian? Irish? Oh, Russian! OK, then. Bye." As for the accents here in the US, ... I really don't care for them much ... save for that from Brooklyn and that from South. That thick Italian accent. Sounds a bit funny. "Two yoots." "Two yoots?" "No, ... two ... yoods." The Southern accent ... it just sounds weird. How did this really loose way of pronouncing words come about?
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:36
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
Which countrymen are you referring to? Since I have 7 cultures , which one is the stereotype? You feel insulted by my comments? You have no idea what an insult is then! You CLEARLY stated that as an economist, you base decision purely on a cost analysis basis, yet earlier you said CLEARLY that the COSTS outweigh the benefits . Which means , in English or in Russian, that there are no benefits if the cost is too high. And you are upset with me? I mean if you cannot see the contradiction in your statement , I am very very sorry for any kind of pain I may have caused. I am a historian and a businessman and I understand what cost benefit is. Its not the only GOD!
If the cost outweighs the benefit, that doesn't mean there is no benefit to be had. A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it.
A cost is not merely financial. Time is a cost, energy is a cost. Like it or not, everything you do is based on an evaluation of cost versus benefit. If you respond to this post, it is because the pleasure or satisfaction you get from doing so is greater than the value of your time spent typing. I think you are misunderstanding the term.
As far as I can see, you still have not pointed out any contradiction I have made, so perhaps you need to be more explicit.
A new car confers a benefit, but if you can't afford it, you don't buy it. Where is the benefit then, you walk away on foot. I guess its better for your cardio vascular . You see what I mean by contradiction? Perhaps as an economist or as an American dreaming of a car has an intrinsic value, giving one ambition or desire. But if you cannot have it , how can that have any real value? Only in the good old financially conscious USSR could one pay and then wait 10 years later to get their car . Again, I apologize but it seems we cannot agree on this issue of benefit and cost. I just understand profit (aka getting a return on your investment.). I believe culture does precisely that .
Okay, look. I want to buy a new car, which costs $15,000. Factoring in gasoline, maintenance and insurance, I calculate that in the first year of owning the car, it will cost me $25,000 total.
Then I think about the benefits of having a car: the time I will save, the places I could get to that would otherwise be inaccessible, and determine that this benefit would only be worth an equivalent of $20,000 in the first year. If I buy the car, I "lose" $5000 in value. If I choose not to buy it, I have effectively made a $5000 profit.
The car still has a benefit. It has a benefit of $20,000. But I can get a greater benefit by not buying it, so I don't.
If I want to learn Spanish, I may determine that the cost of books, lessons, time and effort is more than what I would get out of knowing the language. There are still benefits to knowing it, and it has intrinsic value, but I get more value by not learning it.
Again, this is not an instance of "only caring about money." It is about making rational decisions.
Now the cost of continuing this discussion has become too high, as I am foregoing valuable sleep, but I will return to it in the morning.
-------------
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:37
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:41
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
-------------
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:46
I'm sorry to get in your way, phallus, but isn't this an 'accents' discussion?
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:47
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
Nah! Don't bother I am just an ass! I am just plum Intellectually incapable of communicating with anyone intelligent.
Like someone who says "I got more value by not learning it" . A scholarly statement if I ever heard one. Go save the world , man ! We need more superheroes like the llamaman.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:49
Dayvenkirq wrote:
I'm sorry to get in your way, phallus, but isn't this an 'accents' discussion?
The accent is on speaking gibberish! Economic gibberish!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:54
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
I'll get to it after I re-read that paragraph for the 4th time.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: Sheavy
Date Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:59
Well, i'm more interested in people who seem to have no accent relating to where they were born, or any place for that matter really.
For example, William Burroughs. I don't think anyone could guess accurately as to where he was born based off listening to him talk.
-------------
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:01
Stereotypical lover of the various Anglo accents. British, Scottish, Aussie, Kiwi all pretty great.
As for the American ones, the Bostonian one is nice though I've never heard one person speak that way in real life. And I do mean the posh kind, not the working class Bostonian that sounds like a slow thug
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:08
stonebeard wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
I'll get to it after I re-read that paragraph for the 4th time.
All gibberish? Not a single word makes sense? Should i translate it for you in a language of your choice, like English, perhaps ? You should try my 600 or so reviews on PA! Now that's serious verbal diarrhea. You two guys accuse me of writing in English like some lonesome Kirghiz tribesman is pretty hilarious but sort of expected under the circumstances. .....No mas , por favor.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:10
JJLehto wrote:
Stereotypical lover of the various Anglo accents. British, Scottish, Aussie, Kiwi all pretty great.
Stop it.
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:13
no u?
There's a block of cubicles at my job occupied by Brits and it's one of the few enjoyable parts of my day.
Dayvenkirq wrote:
I'm sorry to get in your way, phallus, but isn't this an 'accents' discussion?
Oh cmon you've been on PA long enough to know how this had to end.
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:17
So one is not a bigot only when one knows 7 languages and has travelled a lot?
That paragraph makes little sense. Maybe translated to Cantonese its value will be revealed. I still fail to see why is it so impossible to understand that there is not always a need to learn other languages.
-------------
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:26
This post was dictated in a Pashto-English accent. Now you're all reading it like Afghanis.
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:34
The T wrote:
So one is not a bigot only when one knows 7 languages and has travelled a lot?
That paragraph makes little sense. Maybe translated to Cantonese its value will be revealed. I still fail to see why is it so impossible to understand that there is not always a need to learn other languages.
That's right! How would you possibly know or judge my level of bigotry? Gracias, querido Teodoro, tu eres muy buena gente!
Truth is I am only bigoted towards small-minded people who glorify themselves in being sarcastic, senselessly critical and downright nasty. Like you three gloriously erudite geniuses.
The paragraph makes sense within the previous context, it has no grammatical errors and stays strictly within the confines of nationalism and economic cost and benefits. It also expresses my general attitude towards forum contributors as well . Go ahead and translate it into Cantonese but I doubt you would understand any better.
But I could do it in espanol for you if you wish!
Yeah, learn one first....... And you say I cannot write?
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: Master of Time
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:40
I've always loved different accents having grown up in Utah but having a mother from Scotland. Growing up spending most of my time with my mother and the rest with people with distinct Utah accents (and having a deeper voice than most of the people I know) has kind of made my accent a bit weird though. Like what I would imagine Kelsey Grammer would sound like if he grew up in Nebraska.
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:44
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
I'll get to it after I re-read that paragraph for the 4th time.
All gibberish? Not a single word makes sense? Should i translate it for you in a language of your choice, like English, perhaps ? You should try my 600 or so reviews on PA! Now that's serious verbal diarrhea. You two guys accuse me of writing in English like some lonesome Kirghiz tribesman is pretty hilarious but sort of expected under the circumstances. .....No mas , por favor.
All in all, I commend you for your progress in knowing 7 languages. Your English is much better than my Spanish. However, three separate people here are telling you your arguments are not making much sense. I guess you could try to restate them, or you could continue lashing out and calling people small minded.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:54
No I actually prefer not to! There is always a third choice! I prefer to sticking to writing reviews because the last time I got involved in a PA general discussion it ended in misery. You gentlemen do not like being challenged by anyone on anything. I simply said that I objected to the sentence "I got more value by NOT learning it" and that escalated into a politico-economic argument on nationalism which in essence seeks to protect one culture/one language. What the f*** is wrong with that? It doesn't make sense to you? If you look at the paragraph out of context, obviously it looks bizarre, like a sound bite manipulated by editing. You guys like to slice and dice and get off on insulting my comments. But I have never been accused of being incoherent by anyone before in the past 56 years , least of all some invisible judgelings who power trip online.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 06:54
I've lived in "The South" for about half my life, though my accent and 'heritage' comes more from the American Midwest (Pennsylvania, Ohio), I talk slowly and enunciate each syllable (I even semi-jokingly say "diaper" as three syllables). The Southern accent has several variants, but in general there seems to be an "aristocratic" version (think "Steel Magnolias" the movie) and a "redneck" version (think Larry the Cable Guy, or "Mater" in the Cars movie). Somewhere in between is the New Orleans (or "Nawlins" as they say) version, which incorporates some French and some African American in there too. People who don't otherwise have an accent will sometimes drift into the redneck version when they want to sound earthy and real, I resist that urge myself. 20 years in Atlanta and I have still never said "y'all".
One of my pet peeves is actors and actresses that play Southern characters, but they do a real heavy-handed take on the accent, just overdoing it where they should be more subtle. The unintended consequence of this is to paint Southern people as rather two-dimensional, which isn't really fair or accurate (well not usually anyway). Come to think of it, world-class actor Tom Hanks was guilty of this in "Forrest Gump". I guess there are people that talk with that much of an exaggerated accent, but it's painful for me to hear an actor execute it.
(edit: changed name of movie from "Fried Green Tomatoes" to "Steel Magnolias". I meant the latter but got them mixed up)
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 06:55
tszirmay wrote:
No I actually prefer not to! There is always a third choice! I prefer to sticking to writing reviews because the last time I got involved in a PA general discussion it ended in misery. You gentlemen do not like being challenged by anyone on anything. I simply said that I objected to the sentence "I got more value by NOT learning it" and that escalated into a politico-economic argument on nationalism which in essence seeks to protect one culture/one language. What the f*** is wrong with that? It doesn't make sense to you? If you look at the paragraph out of context, obviously it looks bizarre, like a sound bite manipulated by editing. You guys like to slice and dice and get off on insulting my comments. But I have never been accused of being incoherent by anyone before in the past 56 years , least of all some invisible judgelings who power trip online.
Actually, I do enjoy being challenged, and I have tried to maintain a level of civil discourse even though you make it difficult to do so.
You object to the idea that it's possible to get more value by not learning a language. Do you know Cornish? If not, why not? I suspect it's because you have better things to do with your time, such as sleep and eat and work for a living, and that Cornish, while interesting and rewarding to learn, has little practical value for you.
In this case, you get more value by not learning Cornish, because of the more productive ways you can use your time. No one can know everything, and we choose to learn the things we think will be most rewarding.
Your paragraph was grammatically correct, and it is not the language that was confusing, but the content. You injected nationalism into a debate that is purely about time use, and I don't see how your mind made such a connection.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 07:02
Hi. Looks like I missed a pointless altercation. I'm feeling a little miffed you chaps had a barny and didn't invite me along, most unsporting of you.
I love accents - I'm not very fond of my own and many people think it is cockney, which it isn't - it's Essex Estuary English with a hint of Bedfordian drawl, I dislike that I cannot say "bottle" or "model" without sounding thick and hate having to say my surname over the phone because I cannot pronounce it 'proplerly', which usually results in some amusingly addressed mail arriving on my door-mat in the following weeks.
I was taught French for five years at school and I'm dreadful at it - I cannot speak French to save my life (m'aider!) - I did get to be pretty good at congugating irregular verbs and did learn what the plu-perfect tense is (both are invaluable in conversational small-talk), but plonk me in a Parisian boulangerie with a pocket full of Euro's and I will be reduced to caveman grunts and wild (yet hopefully international) gesticulation, mime and pointing - I cannot even pronounce croissant in that situtation, I just clam-up eventhough I can pronounce it pefectly (kwah-sahnt) in England. The problem is the accent - to pronounce it properly I have to adopt a French accent - if I use an English accent I end up sounding like an American and will have to pronounce that damn "r" - Krass-ahnt ...ew-yeuk! - and that's the problem - to me it sounds like I'm taking the piss out of their accent - I may just as well be sticking out my bottom lip and shrugging my shoulders (á la Peter Sellers) to get just the right inflection if it wasn't such a crass caricature that only wearing a horizontally stripped t-shirt and beret and carrying a string of onions could possibly make any worse. And strange as it may seem, all that implied stereotype imagery puts me off even attempting to say kwah-sahnt to a French shop keeper. A further illustration of this (just to show it's not a purely English or British hang-up) occured in Munich in 1984 when I was on a training course - after classes one evening a group of us desended on local bar and imbibed several strong German beers, since we were an mutlinational bunch (German, Dutch, Austrian, French and Italian) English was the common language and soon the conversation came around to accents - one of the German guys came from Hamburg and his accent was quite strong and difficult to follow - he made a joke about how the English sound to him (something about heisse kartoffels - the details are lost - I was quite drunk at the time) and gave us an illustration, which while amusing to all was strangley easier to follow - he later appologised profusely that he dared using an English accent in front of an Englishman.
Anyway, accents and English actors - one that amused me was Frasier - neither of the two English actors in that series used their natural born accents, even the one playing an English character. American/Canadian actors doing English accents are fun too - Cannoe Reeves as Jonathan Harker was "interesting" in a "you have to cover your ears it's so bad but if you did that you wouldn't hear it so you cover your eyes instead" kind of way and Depp is always entertaining even if you can't actually place his accent anywhere on a map - James Marsters as Spike in Buffy was entertaining and his attempt at an American doing an impression of an Englishman doing an American accent was funny.
Economics education in schools - hell yes. Back in the 60s in the UK we had the duodecimal money system, schools had no choice but to teach us about "money" but now it's all decimal (and everyone understands decimals right?) they don't have to teach it - treating "money" as just "mathematics is okay up to a point, but it doesn't teach you anything of cost and value, balances and cash-flow - the examples they had to use to teach us pounds-shillings-and-pence had to be practical examples so we covered all those things. Over the past 30 years I've employed lots of technically and mathematically astute young engineers who have been hopeless with money, even especially those who survived 4 years at University on a student loan, and get themselves worked into a tiz over debt and credit-card repayments, rent, cost of fuel/food/etc. and that affects their work and that affects me. So I try to explain to them about budgeting and cash-flow and money-management, and I try to get them to arrange an interview with their bank manager or their bank's financial adviser, and when that fails I arrange it for them, and when that fails I put them in my car and drive them down to their bank and wait for them until they've had the interview. Bright people can be quite odd when money is involved. It seems incongruous to me that we disptach kids off to University and saddle them with 3 or 4 years of debt and student loans without equiping them the tools and knowhow to manage it - I did hear in the TV the otehr week that some schools are offering loan-management lectures as an optional extra ... cynically that will be 45 minutes of how to get the best deal on your credit card.
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 25 2012 at 07:09
I bet Dean speaks Cornish.
Dean wrote:
The problem is the accent - to pronounce it properly I have to adopt a French accent - if I use an English accent I end up sounding like an American and will have to pronouince that damn "r" - Krass-ahnt ...ew-yeuk! - and that's the problem - to me it sounds like I'm taking the piss out of their accent - I may just as well be sticking out my bottom lip and shrugging my shoulders (á la Peter Sellers) to get just the right inflection if it wasn't such a crass caricature that only wearing a horizontally stripped t-shirt and beret and carrying a string of onions could possibly make any worse.
Oddly, it's been my experience that adopting as over-the-top and stereotypical an accent as possible has won me praise for sounding naturalistic in the language classes I've taken. Maybe those stereotypes exist for a reason.
. I just think most Italians vocalists, for some reason, slaughter English while singing. 
zappaholic wrote:
) but the result is a weird accent that most everybody in my job tell me doesn't sound immediately hispanic but quite Slavish. In fact, they call me "Russian" at work 
) , Afrikaner is quite hard to master, while English with a German accent is easy, French the same and Italian/Spanish also. Portuguese is not as pretty as Brazilian (they talk like they play futbol!) . As for my mother tongue, Hungarian is like an alien language from Mars with no resemblance to anything else....... 
People actually believe that learning another language requires a complete rebuild of all that one has learned from the mother tongue . FALSE! It has been proven that a normal average child between the ages of 5 and 14 with a basic IQ can absorb up to 10 languages SIMULTANEOUSLY . The young brain is a massive sponge with compartments that store this knowledge forever. Problem is finding the right drawer later. This is no talent, just another set of learning tools, like skiing, skating, kicking a ball or throwing a pitch. One just has to look at all the prog sub-genres as inspiration! 
). You state that learning another language has no benefits and not worth the cost. Is everything culturally dictated by cost? Do you not think that a young American businessman seeking to do business in China who speaks mandarin would be a prefered candidate over someone who insists' "you guys gotta learn our English" . My generalizations are not constant nor are they offensive because your comments only uphold my arguments. I have been around a long time and deeply enjoy American values along with their weaknesses. Unless of course you wish to deny their existence. 
... In Europe? Well, when you have 83476834 languages in 8 square kilometers it just makes sense to learn a few of those...