Does Metal preclude Progressiveness?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9059
Printed Date: May 16 2025 at 11:59
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Topic: Does Metal preclude Progressiveness?
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Subject: Does Metal preclude Progressiveness?
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:15
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This one's for you, ... let me rephrase that: for the only collaborator that seems to think that Metal precludes Progressiveness.
BTW: preclude means "rule out", so this poll is basically about the question if metal and prog are possible together, or if any one of these two attributes rules out the other. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Replies:
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:20
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THANKS sounds better!! ------------- 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:23
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It's certainly not an attack ... if you feel that offended, let me know. I'm merely dedicating this poll to you. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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philippe wrote:Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:28
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What does preclude mean, surely you mean prelude. I think they both started at aproximatly the same time, so I don't think metal served as a prelude to prog rock, but prog rock didn't serve as a prelude to metal also. The excisted besides each other, and got mingled to form prog-metal.
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:28
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If you want to follow this discussion I advise you to send PM, maybe we will find a consensus. I'm not sure that our point of divergences interest others members -------------
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Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:34
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I've longely explain in others similar subjects the reasons why I defend the fact that metal + prog is an oxymoron. The combination dosen't make any sense, it's just as idiot as if you say that you eat a burning (hot) icecream...sorry but I'm not alone to think that -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:36
I don't think that we can find a consensus ... and I don't really want to discuss it. I've tried, and it always ended with a "yes it is - no it isn't - yes it is - no it isn't" situation. Let's just agree to disagree - you don't like any metal, I like metal and much more. It's just when you say stuff like "Satriani can't play classical guitar" or "Pain of Salvation are a sloppy band" that I get personal, because it's just objectively wrong. I would really like to see how this poll turns out. This isn't about our differences, but about the question if Metal precludes Progressiveness. There's nothing personal or offensive about that. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:37
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Well, then let's find out. BTW: In germany we have a delicious desert: Vanilla ice cream with a hot raspberry sauce. Yumm ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:39
Here's a definition of "preclude": I think you can paraphrase it with "rule out". ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:41
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I personnaly like the music of a few heavy metal bands (Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, the two first Judas Priest, the first Yngwie Malmsteen, The two first Satriani, and a few others shreders). It's not a reason to say that they are progressive, just because you like them (they play in a clever way that's why they are progressive? sorry but things don't go like this) -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:46
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Hey, I agree with that. That reminds me of my thread about the difference between Fusion and Fusion. In a nutshell, I don't think that the Derek Sherinian albums are Prog. But they are Fusion. And since Fusion is listed as a subgenre of Prog here, Sherinian can be included. If so, Satriani should also be included. So basically, I'm not saying that Satriani is Prog at all. But considering how the subgenres are defined here, he could be included in the Fusion subgenre. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:51
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all right, if you admit a VERY VERY VERY generous conception of progressive rock (oh yes, a question have you ever heard the 70's solid prog rock scene from your country?) -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 08:57
I'm not much into Krautrock, if that's what you mean. I'm not sure if I'd like it, but I'll definitely try some time. But it was before my time (I was born in 1975), and I don't think that the attitude of bands like Can is compatible with mine ... at least if it's true that Can means Chaos, Anarchy and Nihilism (or something like that). Edit: I found the CAN band name reference: http://www.heathenworld.com/bandname/ - http://www.heathenworld.com/bandname/ "Keyboard player Irmin Schmidt once defined CAN as an acronym for "Communist, Anarchism, Nihilism"" Even worse ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 09:10
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I'm not sure why anyone would think that Metal precludes progressiveness unless they have a particular distaste for it and this 'precludes' their mind from considering it progressive. Progmetal is probably one of the areas in prog today that has been genuinely moving in an upwardly mobile progressive direction. Would an objector to metal being considered prog say that King Crimsons heavier arrangements are not progressive? ------------- Eternity |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 09:20
As far as I know the band chose this name because in different languages (English, Turkish, Japanese and some others) it stands for positive things like 'love' or 'feelings' or 'potential'. ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 09:27
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As prog is not about instrumentation, I voted no. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Borealis
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 10:04
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Yes you aren't alone, I agree with you. There might be heavy prog rock (King Crimson, Van der Graaf), but no prog metal. Sorry, it's impossible. ------------- Vive le Québec libre!... |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 11:21
Evidence, please. ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 11:32
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Prog Metal is basically Prog Rock with a hard-edge nothing more. Prog Metal is MUCH MUCH MORE connected to Prog Rock than to regular Metal becuase of the structure, songwriting and the playing abilities.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 12:18
I don't think that you can generalize it like that. Symphony X for example have nothing to do with Rock. I think that within Prog Metal, there are bands that are more similar to Prog Rock (like you described id, Prog Rock with a metal edge), but there are also bands that are very close to Metal. Symphony X are a good example. I think that they are very progressive, but also very metal. I don't think that you could categorize Symphony X in a subgenre of Prog Rock. Because of that, I think that Prog Metal is an entirely different beast than Prog Rock. The same applies to Fusion. Here's what I mean:
I think that this makes much more sense than that:
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 12:22
| Well philippe has his own personal crusade against modern music, and metal in particular. It's funny to read his posts, as long as you don't take them seriously. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 23 2005 at 17:26
Well, there are a lot of different parts. There are different kinds of Progressive Metal too. Ayreon- Spacey Prog Metal Evergrey- Dark Progressive Metal Symphonic X- Symphonic Progressive Power Metal Dream Theater- Progressive Metal Porcupine Tree/Deadsoul Tribe- Psychodelic Progressive Metal etc. etc. |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: July 24 2005 at 00:55
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I DETEST prog metal (and heavy metal in general) in opinion its just loud for the sake of loud maybe I just don't get the music..... but that certainly doesn't prevent it from being part of the progressive rock genre, just in a different way than other bands. ------------- 
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: July 24 2005 at 05:22
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^
Great sig BTW NetsNJFan, quite a few classics there! 
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 24 2005 at 12:45
ELITIST ELITIST ELITIST ELITIST ELITIST ELITIST ELITIST!! |
Posted By: Hammill
Date Posted: July 24 2005 at 14:33
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if someone believes that metal precludes progressiveness he can listen to the following records. he might change his mind. sieges even-steps/sense of change psychotic waltz-social grace/into the everflow cynic-focus vauxdvihl-vog garden wall-the seduction of madness/chimica. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ethereal
Date Posted: July 25 2005 at 08:09
Whoever said that? Almost every contemporary progressive rock band
sounds more metal than rock.. so I'd call it progressive metal ... Oh
wait, many people actually do call it that!  And Metal is more than just heavy..it can also be power .. Angra is a brilliant example of how someone can combine power with progressive. ------------- http://www.etherealstatus.info - http://www.etherealstatus.com |
Posted By: Progzilla
Date Posted: July 25 2005 at 17:23
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Well I'm delighted that nobody has answered yes to this poll (yet..). I
someone really thinks all metal bands share some mystical factor that
makes it impossible for them to create progressive music he or she
certainly has a pretty narrow view of music. And as usual when a thread deals with metal in some way or another, there are those who just have to come clean and inform us that they detest metal, in capital letters even. Is the fact that you don't like prog metal eating you up alive? Relax, it won't kill you, just stop listening to it! Proglovers seem to have a view of them selves as open-minded and tolerant; hmm, what happens when you put a bounch of proglovers together? They start fighting and wrestling about what PROGstyle or band is the best... I guess that tells us something about us humans. ------------- Currently listening to: - Andromeda - Pagan's Mind - Kamelot |
Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: July 25 2005 at 21:03
that doesnt mean its not unbearably loud like other metal -------------
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Posted By: Ethereal
Date Posted: July 25 2005 at 22:06
Yes, if you're 16 you might.. but I've never seen any people over a certain amount of age start quarreling over what is what...  ------------- http://www.etherealstatus.info - http://www.etherealstatus.com |
Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: July 27 2005 at 20:06
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Prog metal fans could argue that flutes and harps are for pansies, and preclude progressiveness. But prog is all about great musicianship, and even though I don't listen to much prog metal, let's face it, the niche does have a lot of excellent musicians. ------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 05 2005 at 05:22
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I think metal is not one solid genre with no differentiation at all within it. 80's Hair metal (which I loathe) is completely different from, say, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden or Queensryche. Volume isn't all - there are other factors, such as the length of the songs, the way instruments are played, even the lyrics. As no one would say Krautrock groups sound exactly the same as Genesis or Jethro Tull, just because you can find both of them on ProgArchives, so you should be careful about lumping all metal together. And of course, the answer is no... Metal can be progressive as much as every other genre! |
Posted By: spectral
Date Posted: August 05 2005 at 06:18
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prog and metal are not mutually exclusive. I think it is possible for a band to be prog-metal. it's not my personal fave sub-genre, but there are some great bands, who are very technical who could be prog-metal. ------------- "...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine." |