Objectivity in Music Pt. !: CTTE vs Supper's Ready
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Topic: Objectivity in Music Pt. !: CTTE vs Supper's Ready
Posted By: thellama73
Subject: Objectivity in Music Pt. !: CTTE vs Supper's Ready
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 19:50
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There is always someone eager to jump into any thread around here and exclaim with an air of self-righteous indignation that the topic under discussion is too subjective and that it is ludicrous to make claims about what is good or bad, interesting or boring, concise or just plain short of ideas. So, in an attempt to appease these simple minded folk, I have undertaken it upon myself (displaying, I feel, the full generosity of the holiday season) to start a series of topics designed to illustrate exactly how fun and interesting objective discussions about music can be. To start things off, let's examine two of the most celebrated songs in the prog canon. Which of these two is longer? Please explain your vote in detail below. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 20:15
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The answer is Thick as a Brick. Or 42. Either or.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 20:47
 a bad song can subjectively feel longer than an objectively longer one.
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 21:04
That's true, but you can't talk about good songs and bad songs n this thread. This is only for objective discussions of music. -------------
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Gerinski wrote:Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 21:06
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"Supper's Ready" starts with an S and uses an apostrophe. What the hell.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 21:15
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Supper's Ready is 2 minutes 6 seconds longer than Gravedigger by Janus and Close To The Edge is 2 minutes 5 seconds shorter than Gravedigger by Janus. If only Janus could have squeezed another ½ second of music out of Gravedigger then symmetry would be established and the Prog world would be in ballance. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 21:27
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 21:37
 Nice. 
Logan, I think you took things a little too hard in that other thread. Let the butth$%es be, they who state s$%t objectively. Also, ... Ha-ha-ha ... who voted "CTTE"?
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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 21:50
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My name is mud
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:07
| I can't wait for part. @ |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:08
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^^Hey! Nice Primus reference, Andrew! Everyone knows that CTTE is longer than Supper's Ready. Don't let the printed track lengths fool you, Yes knew that no one had the attention span to listen to a 20 minute song, so they listed it as 18 so people would think it was shorter. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:22
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:24
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Obviously A Passion Play. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:34
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CLOSE TO THE EDGE (17 letters, including spaces) SUPPER'S READY (14 letters, including space and apostrophe) CTTE wins! ------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: Loren
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:46
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Close to the Edge < 14 letters Supper's Ready < 12 letters. Close to the Edge is longer. |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:52
I just don't know where this thread can go 
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:54
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*insert joke about innuendo in poll question here*
------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 22:56
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We have to define the terms and parameters here. First, what do we mean by objectivity? Technically, the word itself pertains to objects. With these two songs we have two clearly defined objects. The edge and supper. Now, what supper entails is not clear from the title alone, but fortunately, the song is broken down into discrete units such as Lover's Leap, How Dare I Be So Beautiful, etc. To be honest none of these sound very appealing to me, but that is a subjective observation and does not belong here. Now, the edge is far less specific. Where is this edge? What relation does it have with the river? Which river is it anyway? Are we supposed to stay away from the edge or come close to it? What will we see? Should we leap off it? What kind of faith does that entail? None of these questions are answered. In conclusion, then, my answer to which is objectively better must go to the one which is objectively more objective, that is, the more clearly defined object. That is, of course, Supper's Ready. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 23:04
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^That wasn't the poll question, it was "which is longer," the answer to which, clearly, is Close to the Edge To add to the pile of evidence that is heaping up in favor of the superior length of CTTE, I have this piece of information to add: you know that part in CTTE? The really awesome part? Yeah, that part. It has recently been discovered by Mongolian scientists that everyone who listens to the song passes out right at that part because of it's awesomeness, and regain consciousness precisely ten minutes later, at which point in the song the music just happens to flow perfectly logically from the awesome part where everyone passes out. Thus, CTTE is at least ten minutes longer than listed on the tracklisting. Pretty cool, huh? ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: zeqexes
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 23:32
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Close to the Edge is actually longer. It goes for an indefinite amount of time (but definitely longer than Supper's Ready if you have good taste). The end of the song acts as a sort of 4'33" by John Cage, in that you are sitting there after listening to such an amazing piece of music, in silence, basking in the wonder of Close to the Edge. The song continues as you are still immersed in the world of Yes. For true fans, this experience can last up to 7 weeks. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 23:42
You kids would also say that originally "CTTE" was 37 minutes long but the band decided to double the speed on the tape. 
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 23:46
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^Of course. That's how Jon Anderson's voice got so high. And what "kids?" You're only 3 years older than me. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 23:47
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: November 26 2012 at 23:54
It's okay. I'm the one who made the stupid innuendo joke on the first page .------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 00:35
| Close To The Edge wins. It has longer notes. |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 06:10
Oh, aren't you so clever? Thanks for appeasing us simple minded folk. On that note, I have never actually come across anybody here who said that it's ludicrous to make claims about what is good or bad etc. |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 06:17
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Someone please time the vocal bits, he is asking about the song, Instrumental tip-tapp dosent count ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 06:30
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Sar-Chasm is the Best-Chasm. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 07:02
 -------------  One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 07:22
That was pretty much my point. -------------
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Posted By: Ytse_Jam
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 07:23
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Actually, this thread is funnier than most subjective threads
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 07:43
I wish to clarify that this thread was not directed in response to you (nor was the admittedly insulting comment I made in the other thread.) You made a valid point and defended it intelligently, although I still disagree with you about it. Instead, this is a response to years of accumulated frustration with the people who routinely barge into threads screaming that it's wrong to state anything about music, since it is all subjective. Unlike you, I have seen many people get their hackles up over statements like "X band is good, Y band is bad." It's obviously a matter of opinion and, as I see it, it is the action of a fool to complain about subjectivity on a forum exclusively devoted to subjective topics. I apologize if I offended you. AS I say, I am not lashing out at what you said, but at the attitudes of others. -------------
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Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 07:56
I've never actually seen people who said that it's wrong to state anything about music because it's subjective (the real reason why talking about music is stupid is because it's like dancing about architecture  ). When people get furious over statements like "X band is good, Y band is bad", it's usually either because they don't realize that somebody is only stating their opinion or because they're trying to prove the "objective" quality of a band and are offended that anyone would disagree (e.g. all those discussion about Dream Theater that have become a running gag). So our problems are with people who either don't recognize an opinion when they see one or who think they can make objective statements about subjective things. The group that this thread pokes fun at... doesn't really exist.
All's well then.  By the way, my vote goes to "Close to the Edge". I don't know, it just... feels longer to me |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 10:53
 ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 11:09
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Suppers Ready is the longer because at the end is a 5 minute guitar solo that someone faded out grrr! ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 11:23
| Supper's Ready goes on forever (it seems), while CTTE ends too soon. I'd be surprised if CTTE is actually longer?... |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 12:03
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"Close to the Edge" has been around longer than "Supper's Ready," if that helps at all. (Close to the Edge was released September 13, 1972; Foxtrot, October 6.) But then, I don't know which one was conceived, rehearsed, recorded and/or previewed first. Historians? Anyone? Anyone? Which song has been around LONGER? ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 12:30
I thought that the one ending too SOON was Relayer
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 27 2012 at 12:41
 -------------
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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: November 28 2012 at 08:39
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SR = two letters, an acronym for two words.
CTTE = four letters, an acronym for four words.
Close To The Edge is longer, it takes longer to type too. ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: November 28 2012 at 09:28
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 28 2012 at 09:28
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It's okay. I knew what you meant.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 28 2012 at 12:00
------------- What? |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: November 29 2012 at 17:59
| *some contrived line of reasoning to justify voting Close to the Edge because of a misreading of the OP* |