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Dayvenkirq 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
 Posted: February 21 2013 at 16:15 |
Well, if the artist is making it for himself and no one else (which is inherently what he wants to hear), then he is indulging himself, which is musical masturbation. If the artist is making it for himself and others (which is inherently what him AND others want to hear), then it's ultimately made for both sides. But anyway,
 Edited by Dayvenkirq - February 21 2013 at 16:16 |
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009 Location: Coolwood Status: Offline Points: 6499 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 16:03 |
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I have always enjoyed virtuosity in the music I listen to. There was a time many years ago when that was almost all I would consider, but now that I am more experienced and jaded (meaning older), I have many other considerations. For Prog, I do think it is essential, but that does not mean an artist has to go full blast on virtuosity all the time. In fact, when that happens, I grow tired of it quickly - it is all virtuosity and little to no music. For example, I greatly admire Yngwie Malmsteen's guitar playing but grow bored with his music very quickly. When there is no artistry, no finesse, no soul, there is very little to enjoy. At the same time, if virtuosity is never exhibited in an album, that too will cause me to lose interest. In a nutshell, it has to be a juggling act between the elements of music - melody, arrangement, rhythm, and good playing. HolyMoly makes a good point about creativity. There must be inspiration beyond technical ability, but technical ability, when put in the proper place, allows inspiration to be expressed. |
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26138 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 15:20 |
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Technical virtuosity is but a tool; the real fuel lies in the creativity. A technically virtuous musician may have an advantage in the creative area, as he has more tools to use, and a wider knowledge of what tools there are; however, a technically virtuous musician may also have a disadvantage, if his training has narrowed his focus and made him an efficient machine rather than a creative craftsman.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
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Sumdeus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2012 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 831 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 15:15 |
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'they" was referring to virtuosity and music theory. As for the second question, not sure what you're driving at. it would be impossible for me to fully explain what i consider 'good music' and i don't think it matters much in the context either way. As for musical masturbation, that is what I consider self-indulgent playing. I think it's silly to say that making music for yourself is musical masturbation because I think all music is ultimately made for the artist. when i make music i certainly make music that I want to hear that I don't hear anyone else making
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Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007 Location: Anti-Cool (anag Status: Offline Points: 2689 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 15:10 |
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In many hugely successful and popular prog bands, there are musicians who are barely adequate players.
Virtuosity is for orchestras, in a nutshell. |
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 15:07 |
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^ Ok, first of all, who is they? Second of all, (and this question must have been asked quite a number of times during the period of this forum's existence) what do you mean by good music? Only a part of my idea of good music is music that is presentable. Otherwise, as Brian (Slartibartfast) has pointed it out once in my "should the artist care" thread, you are just making the music for yourself ("musical masturbation"). Theory is a great tool for helping you in expressing yourself to a greater extent while keeping your material presentable.
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Sumdeus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2012 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 831 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 14:55 |
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virtuosity is not necessary for good music and neither is theory like someone else said above^. music is in your head and that's that . They can help make it easier for you to play what you hear in your head but at the end of the day you either got it or you don't. As well, they can also make it harder to play good music, with virtuosity leading to flashy self-indulgent playing and too much worry over theory can lead to very safe boring compositions that have nothing exciting going on.
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Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 13:29 |
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Virtuosity can be really sexy a lot of the time. Off the top of my head I really can't remember a single example where skill was successfully married with emotion. A good taste in tone, melody, and songwriting alone simply defeats the "importance" of virtuosity in music.
RBlak054, for how long have you enjoyed listening to music? I'm very surprised you asked this question.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - February 21 2013 at 13:30 |
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Viajero Astral
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3118 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 13:01 |
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Indeed, not essential, some good prog musicians aren't very skillful players. What I thing is more important is musical knowledge. Most of them have some degrees or learn theory at some point of their careers, so theory (at least the basics of music composition) is more important than virtuosity for this kind of genre.
Edited by Viajero Astral - February 21 2013 at 13:02 |
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8644 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 12:48 |
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Overall not essential, but it doesn't hurt. Certain genres, JRF and Tech/Extreme its kind of a given.
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RBlak054
Forum Newbie 
Joined: February 17 2013 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 19 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 12:38 |
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When discussing or defining progressive music, one topic that seems to inevitably arise is virtuosity. Without a doubt music in progressive rock and many of its subgenres frequently demonstrates instrumental prowess and features what could arguably be considered some of the world's best musicians.
My questions to you, with this is mind, are: How important do you consider technical skill to be for the quality of progressive music? As a listener, does technical skill have a noticeable impact on how much you enjoy a piece? I apologize in advance if there's similar topic; the use of the search function and a brief scan of the forums yielded no relevant results (at least in the past few years). Edited by RBlak054 - February 21 2013 at 16:58 |
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The Role of Virtuosity in Progressive Music
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Sumdeus wrote:
