Case Study: Muse

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Remember, when fans & music journalists talk about prog in relation to modern music, 'new prog' and so on, most of them aren't really aware of what classic prog actually is or sounds like. They look at the increasing classical influences, especially juxtaposed against the recent electronic pop, and they go, that's artsy, that's prog. People associate prog with over the top bombast, they look at how ridiculous Muse have become in that regard in recent years, and they go, that's prog. They look at 'suites' (Exogenesis- only in name), longer than average songs (Citizen Erased), hints of concept albums (Absolution, The Resistance, presumably The 2nd Law), and they go, that's prog.

I think a 'prog-related' tag is reasonable. They've definitely had actual prog influences on their music, and while their openness to genre-mashing and bombast isn't specifically prog, it definitely goes quite a way beyond the standards of their scene and looks almost experimental from that perspective. Radiohead is more or less an entirely different category.
Muse were my teen obsession band- I grew out of the obsession and haven't listened to them in a few years (not that I don't respect what they've done), but I can attest from my point of view and the views of other fans I knew during that time, that Muse can act as a gateway band to prog. Not that that's an argument in itself, but yeah, it indicates something or other.

Edited by Kazza3 - October 19 2014 at 04:06

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Kazza3 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: November 29 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 557	Posted: October 19 2014 at 04:02
	Remember, when fans & music journalists talk about prog in relation to modern music, 'new prog' and so on, most of them aren't really aware of what classic prog actually is or sounds like. They look at the increasing classical influences, especially juxtaposed against the recent electronic pop, and they go, that's artsy, that's prog. People associate prog with over the top bombast, they look at how ridiculous Muse have become in that regard in recent years, and they go, that's prog. They look at 'suites' (Exogenesis- only in name), longer than average songs (Citizen Erased), hints of concept albums (Absolution, The Resistance, presumably The 2nd Law), and they go, that's prog. I think a 'prog-related' tag is reasonable. They've definitely had actual prog influences on their music, and while their openness to genre-mashing and bombast isn't specifically prog, it definitely goes quite a way beyond the standards of their scene and looks almost experimental from that perspective. Radiohead is more or less an entirely different category. Muse were my teen obsession band- I grew out of the obsession and haven't listened to them in a few years (not that I don't respect what they've done), but I can attest from my point of view and the views of other fans I knew during that time, that Muse can act as a gateway band to prog. Not that that's an argument in itself, but yeah, it indicates something or other. Edited by Kazza3 - October 19 2014 at 04:06

Man With Hat Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178	Posted: October 18 2014 at 21:41
	Because people group what they like into the same categories even if it's silly. Because people don't know any better. Because people consider them "weird" or "arty". The three that came to the top of my mind.
	Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.

Tom Ozric Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916	Posted: October 18 2014 at 21:38
	I guess you could also include The Pineapple Thief in this 'post-progressive' bracket, although they are proggier than anything I've heard from both Muse and Radiohead, but not as Prog as Porcupine Tree. 'Nu-Prog' is another term I'm seeing this kind of stuff referred to as well.......... .......oh, the fine line between common alt-rock, and more refined musicianship.....

richardh Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26471	Posted: October 18 2014 at 03:56
	The progressive elements of their music were very strong on Absolution (if you can't hear it then you aren't listening properly) but since then they have gone for a more radio based approach and have made no secret they want to be more popular in the USA. The second album Origin of Symmetry as well as Absolution are the main reasons they were included here. Black Holes and Revelations sees a definite split in approach and The Resistance puts them in 'art pop' (not prog) territory as does the last one. I am a fan though and oddly The Resistance has grown on me even though it lacks serious prog credentials aside from perhaps Exogenesis Suite. Anyhow I like them a lot and that's all that matters to me.

ole-the-first Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 03 2012 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 1534	Posted: October 17 2014 at 13:44
	Muse are mixing a lot of genres, incorporating in their music elements of symphonic rock, space rock, and also electronic music etc. Is that really usual for mainstream rock bands? I wouldn't say so. They're not any more simple than other bands in Prog Related section here (i.e. Queen, Bowie, Black Sabbath etc.). Then, what makes me feel reasonable to compare Muse with Porcupine Tree, Radiohead and Anathema is the way how they make their music. They take alternative rock basis and make it more sophisticated. That what actually means 'post-progressive' (this term is being popularized by Kscope Records now), it means to create proggy mucic with alternative rock basis. Yeah, Muse is quite a poppy band, I wouldn't argue with that. But Prog Related section is totally justified, methinks. The Flaming Lips' inclusion is a different question for a different discussion, indeed
	This night wounds time.

Horizons Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952	Posted: October 17 2014 at 13:18
	Post-Progressive..? What the hell? I can't see Muse's experimentation enough to be compared to Radiohead, PT, or Anathema - actually progressive music. I'm not even sure most of their material can be considered unusual. These guys are progressive and experimental but Flaming Lips lacks these aspects? That's another discussion though.. What aspects or songs makes you think they are definitely experimental enough to be included here?
	Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

ole-the-first Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 03 2012 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 1534	Posted: October 17 2014 at 13:15
	It fits quite well into 'post-progressive' label, alongside with Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Anathema etc. For me, Muse are playing a nice kind of art-pop. Not as sophisticated as proper prog bands, but definitely pretty much unusual and experimental to be mentioned on PA.
	This night wounds time.

Horizons Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952	Posted: October 17 2014 at 13:03
	Why are they always one of the first bands mentioned when discussing modern progressive rock? Or at least the popular ones. They aren't prog, they aren't progressive. They are a alternative rock group with a vocalist that likes piano. Sure The Resistance has some interesting and "experimental" parts with the classical influence - but i just don't understand how this band keeps getting the prog label. Give me some reasoning and thoughts.
	Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.