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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:12
Good
old Roy!
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:11
^ ClapClap Hug
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:10
Vangelis - Cosmos (Theme from TV Series) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Lwj_ybVno
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 14:02
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 13:58
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The sun will expire in 4.5 billion years so you may have to conclude your search in the dark... Wink
Exactly. You're catching on. Peace out.
I have to admit it took a while...
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 Stand by, I'm trying to find an emoticon that represents a scorching dessert to use with my response.
...since the only scorching desserts that sprung to mind would be those that were served flambé such as crepe suzzette. Tongue
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 13:56
Time to shake out the dust and sour vibes!
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 13:52
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The sun will expire in 4.5 billion years so you may have to conclude your search in the dark... Wink
Exactly. You're catching on. Peace out.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 13:50
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The sun will expire in 4.5 billion years so you may have to conclude your search in the dark... 
I am not worried about that, but I always wondered what is behind the dark side of the moon Wink Big smile Hug
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 13:48
The sun will expire in 4.5 billion years so you may have to conclude your search in the dark... Wink
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 13:47
Music for Atheists to me is perceive as moozik and lyrics not referenced to any kind of God, thus certainly not only related at all to weird cult kind of heavy metal music.
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 13:41
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

*sigh* earwig-o-again.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 This thread was not posted for secular music, which is devoid of any spiritual or supernatural references, but actually to music that is critical of religions, dogmas and the like.
That's not necessarily atheist music since religious music can (in theory) be critical of other religions and/or beliefs, however unlikely that is for fear of being tagged anti-semitic, isalmaphobic or just sectarian.  
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Instrumental New Age music is secular.
 
Then all instrumental music would be secular, which is debatable. Music written for a spiritual purpose would not necessarily be secular, for example there are many pieces of (christian) sacred instrumental music, such as Mozart's Church Sonatas, that are non-secular. By that argument then New Age music written for spiritual ends, such as for meditation, would be non-secular.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The Hangman and the Papist by Strawbs (always loved Wakeman's organ in this one) is not.
Correct, it's about sectarianism.
This is a bit of nitpicking as New Age, specifically stated, can be used for spiritual purposes but it's not the intention of it's creator, and that goes for a majority of other instrumental music as well. In you're argument, no instrumental music can be secular and, ironically, you were the one that proposed that it was.
In my "argument" I never said any such thing. You raised the point about Instrumental New Age music and stated that it was secular. The only prior mention I made to New Age was referring to the spiritual New Age Movement and not the music genre of the same name. In response to your claim that New Age music was secular I merely pointed out that instrumental music written for spiritual/religious ends would be non-secular. (i.e. by the intent of its creator). Of course music not specifically written for such purposes (ie secular music) that was later used in a spiritual/religious role would remain secular music.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 
The Hangman and the Papist being strictly sectarianism is a stretch, as the song does reveal the inherent pitfalls that's has been the bane of religions since time began, I.E. "killing someone is God's name." Generally, one of an atheist's main criticisms of religions, if he's sincere.
I never said it was strictly sectarianism, nor did I say it was sectarianism - I clearly said it was about sectarianism. The song is written about the sectarian "troubles" in Northern Ireland but it is not a sectarian song.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

  
Semantics does little for these points except to criticize and alter generally understood meanings and remove someone from participation in the discussion. That's why people use slang. It keeps the bookworms out of the discussions and allows people to focus on the topics without distractions, and with a vernacular that's full of terms that they are familiar with and as they generally understand them.
That presupposes that a term has a generally understood meaning, and from Hugues' post from last Tuesday ("Mmmhhh!!!.. Haven't seen many examples about atheism itself in this thread. Most of what I saw/heard is mostly attacks against religions") the meaning of "Music for Atheists" was not unequivocal. Slang is not generally understood, that's kinda the point of it.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

  
I belong to an atheist's group, but I don't expect the general population to understand the deeper philosophical meanings of atheism, let alone related concepts such as teleology and ontology.
Meh, I couldn't give a flying fart about the deeper philosophical meaning of atheism, nor teleology and ontology, (and epistemology to complete the set). If all that floats your boat then good for you, I have no wish to explore such navel gazing.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

  
This thread is supposed to be for some light hearted fun. I see no need to turn this into a dry (cough, cough) academic discussion, why do you?
All I was searching for was clarification on what you actually meant by Music for Atheists, you answered that to my satisfaction but then went on to make two points that I didn't entirely agree with. Your subsequent misunderstanding of my reply was hardly a dry academic discussion. Tongue
Stand by, I'm trying to find an emoticon that represents a scorching dessert to use with my response.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 03:41
Originally posted by progresssaurus progresssaurus wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 This thread was not posted for secular music, which is devoid of any spiritual or supernatural references, but actually to music that is critical of religions, dogmas and the like.
That's not necessarily atheist music since religious music can (in theory) be critical of other religions and/or beliefs, however unlikely that is for fear of being tagged anti-semitic, isalmaphobic or just sectarian.  
 
What about music that is critical to all religions?
 
Can you get it as "music for atheists" (from atheists to atheists)? Or you say that such music is for all theists (potential receivers of critical message) from atheists (source of message)? Smile
That's a good point Jaroslav. I suspect that most anti-religion songs are written by atheists for atheists just as most religious music is written by theists for other theists. In both cases they would be an affirmation of some form or other. Even when the lyric is overtly proselytising (vernacular: 'preachy') or critical the more receptive audience would be those who already believed in the message being sent.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 03:05
*sigh* earwig-o-again.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 This thread was not posted for secular music, which is devoid of any spiritual or supernatural references, but actually to music that is critical of religions, dogmas and the like.
That's not necessarily atheist music since religious music can (in theory) be critical of other religions and/or beliefs, however unlikely that is for fear of being tagged anti-semitic, isalmaphobic or just sectarian.  
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Instrumental New Age music is secular.
 
Then all instrumental music would be secular, which is debatable. Music written for a spiritual purpose would not necessarily be secular, for example there are many pieces of (christian) sacred instrumental music, such as Mozart's Church Sonatas, that are non-secular. By that argument then New Age music written for spiritual ends, such as for meditation, would be non-secular.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The Hangman and the Papist by Strawbs (always loved Wakeman's organ in this one) is not.
Correct, it's about sectarianism.
This is a bit of nitpicking as New Age, specifically stated, can be used for spiritual purposes but it's not the intention of it's creator, and that goes for a majority of other instrumental music as well. In you're argument, no instrumental music can be secular and, ironically, you were the one that proposed that it was.
In my "argument" I never said any such thing. You raised the point about Instrumental New Age music and stated that it was secular. The only prior mention I made to New Age was referring to the spiritual New Age Movement and not the music genre of the same name. In response to your claim that New Age music was secular I merely pointed out that instrumental music written for spiritual/religious ends would be non-secular. (i.e. by the intent of its creator). Of course music not specifically written for such purposes (ie secular music) that was later used in a spiritual/religious role would remain secular music.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 
The Hangman and the Papist being strictly sectarianism is a stretch, as the song does reveal the inherent pitfalls that's has been the bane of religions since time began, I.E. "killing someone is God's name." Generally, one of an atheist's main criticisms of religions, if he's sincere.
I never said it was strictly sectarianism, nor did I say it was sectarianism - I clearly said it was about sectarianism. The song is written about the sectarian "troubles" in Northern Ireland but it is not a sectarian song.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

  
Semantics does little for these points except to criticize and alter generally understood meanings and remove someone from participation in the discussion. That's why people use slang. It keeps the bookworms out of the discussions and allows people to focus on the topics without distractions, and with a vernacular that's full of terms that they are familiar with and as they generally understand them.
That presupposes that a term has a generally understood meaning, and from Hugues' post from last Tuesday ("Mmmhhh!!!.. Haven't seen many examples about atheism itself in this thread. Most of what I saw/heard is mostly attacks against religions") the meaning of "Music for Atheists" was not unequivocal. Slang is not generally understood, that's kinda the point of it.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

  
I belong to an atheist's group, but I don't expect the general population to understand the deeper philosophical meanings of atheism, let alone related concepts such as teleology and ontology.
Meh, I couldn't give a flying fart about the deeper philosophical meaning of atheism, nor teleology and ontology, (and epistemology to complete the set). If all that floats your boat then good for you, I have no wish to explore such navel gazing.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

  
This thread is supposed to be for some light hearted fun. I see no need to turn this into a dry (cough, cough) academic discussion, why do you?
All I was searching for was clarification on what you actually meant by Music for Atheists, you answered that to my satisfaction but then went on to make two points that I didn't entirely agree with. Your subsequent misunderstanding of my reply was hardly a dry academic discussion. Tongue
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Points: 20597 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2015 at 02:59
Originally posted by progresssaurus progresssaurus wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

This thread is supposed to be for some light hearted fun. 

Best music for atheists is music intended seriously as music for theist Smile


best ultra-light and good-mooded music for atheists could be the all-too serious music intendeed to convert them into religious fanatics... garanteed to make us laugh!!! TongueLOL
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Points: 1884 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2015 at 19:03
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

This thread is supposed to be for some light hearted fun. 

Best music for atheists is music intended seriously as music for theist Smile
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Points: 20597 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2015 at 18:32
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 
I belong to an atheist's group, but I don't expect the general population to understand the deeper philosophical meanings of atheism, let alone related concepts such as teleology and ontology. This thread is supposed to be for some light hearted fun. That's why it was purposely mistitled. I see no need to turn this into a dry (cough, cough) academic discussion, why do you?
  


From what I read in your post, your group is  typically the genre of atheist that has no ideas what atheism is about... You (the group) think it's a form or religion and has a set of beliefs and a doctrine to follow, don't you? You've probably build some sort of a dogma

It reminds me of this Californian Atheism club that set up a list of ten commandment that resembled the ones in the bible.LOL

==========================

the deeper philosophical meanings of atheism >> there is absolutely nothing philosophical about atheism, dude!!
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Points: 20617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2015 at 11:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 This thread was not posted for secular music, which is devoid of any spiritual or supernatural references, but actually to music that is critical of religions, dogmas and the like.
That's not necessarily atheist music since religious music can (in theory) be critical of other religions and/or beliefs, however unlikely that is for fear of being tagged anti-semitic, isalmaphobic or just sectarian.  
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Instrumental New Age music is secular.
 
Then all instrumental music would be secular, which is debatable. Music written for a spiritual purpose would not necessarily be secular, for example there are many pieces of (christian) sacred instrumental music, such as Mozart's Church Sonatas, that are non-secular. By that argument then New Age music written for spiritual ends, such as for meditation, would be non-secular.
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The Hangman and the Papist by Strawbs (always loved Wakeman's organ in this one) is not.
Correct, it's about sectarianism.
 

This is a bit of nitpicking as New Age, specifically stated, can be used for spiritual purposes but it's not the intention of it's creator, and that goes for a majority of other instrumental music as well. In you're argument, no instrumental music can be secular and, ironically, you were the one that proposed that it was.
 
The Hangman and the Papist being strictly sectarianism is a stretch, as the song does reveal the inherent pitfalls that's has been the bane of religions since time began, I.E. "killing someone is God's name." Generally, one of an atheist's main criticisms of religions, if he's sincere.
 
Semantics does little for these points except to criticize and alter generally understood meanings and remove someone from participation in the discussion. That's why people use slang. It keeps the bookworms out of the discussions and allows people to focus on the topics without distractions, and with a vernacular thats full of terms that they are familiar with and as they generally understand them.
 
I belong to an atheist's group, but I don't expect the general population to understand the deeper philosophical meanings of atheism, let alone related concepts such as teleology and ontology. This thread is supposed to be for some light hearted fun. That's why it was purposely mistitled. I see no need to turn this into a dry (cough, cough) academic discussion, why do you?
 
 
 
  


Edited by SteveG - August 28 2015 at 15:43
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Points: 1884 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2015 at 09:00
Ok LOL Can we to determine "Music for atheists" as music, which is not accetable for not a single one believer, but endurable for some atheists (no matter whether we say, that they are normal or ... )?
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Points: 20597 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2015 at 08:02
Originally posted by progresssaurus progresssaurus wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 This thread was not posted for secular music, which is devoid of any spiritual or supernatural references, but actually to music that is critical of religions, dogmas and the like.
That's not necessarily atheist music since religious music can (in theory) be critical of other religions and/or beliefs, however unlikely that is for fear of being tagged anti-semitic, isalmaphobic or just sectarian.  
 
What about music that is critical to all religions?
 
Can you get it as "music for atheists" (from atheists to atheists)? Or you say that such music is for all theists (potential receivers of critical message) from atheists (source of message)? Smile
 
I'd say that to an extent, Roger Waters and Ian Anderson have a slight thing against organized religions (in general) and it pervades through their lyrics (may this be why I tend to think of them two as belonging in the top 5 rock myricists), but again, neither cater to atheists. Because most normal atheists (meaning non-extremists) wouldn't care much for an anti-religion theme album, unless the music on it would happen to be stupendous
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Points: 1884 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2015 at 06:40
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 This thread was not posted for secular music, which is devoid of any spiritual or supernatural references, but actually to music that is critical of religions, dogmas and the like.
That's not necessarily atheist music since religious music can (in theory) be critical of other religions and/or beliefs, however unlikely that is for fear of being tagged anti-semitic, isalmaphobic or just sectarian.  
 
What about music that is critical to all religions?
 
Can you get it as "music for atheists" (from atheists to atheists)? Or you say that such music is for all theists (potential receivers of critical message) from atheists (source of message)? Smile


Edited by progresssaurus - August 28 2015 at 07:20
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