Yes - Jumping the shark

That's the stuff, how would we survive Sunday mornings without it!

Some of the recent Irn Bru ads on TV have been excellent. Did you read about the one with the family singing together where the wife/mother sings at the end ".. and I love Irn Bru too, even though I used to be a man"!

The advertising standards office told them not to show it again as it may upset transvestites!

Fragile wrote: Mmmh I'll have to stop posting when I'm exceedingly drunk on saturday nights!

Don't do that Fragile, you can always edit them later when you read what you wrote! Keep the Irn Bru handy.

49?  Who said that?

Drop a dog year, then we'll talk.

Post away....

Hmm, what's that emotional state between feeling slightly ornery but really not caring too much? Ennui maybe? That's where I'm at. If I wasn't a chronic insomniac without a current writing project, I wouldn't spend so much time on this sort of thing (I can just imagine some of you rushing to send me sleeping pills to get me to shut the heck up )

Fragile wrote: You know something you north america boys and I include canada in this you seem pretty agitated about rabin making an arse of Yes. You got that impression from me? I don't care about that aspect at all. Yes pretty much made arses of themselves, didn't they? It's not like the rest of the band was fighting Rabin every step of the way. Howe especially had some pretty foolish quotes over the years... If you want arena eighties bands then you had loads of  of them. Fair enough. As for you Danbo SV is tellling you as she see it .I think as a 49 year old that a young prog lover tells you as she hears it and feels it. You're 49? I'd assumed you were much younger. Not that it makes any difference- I'm just a little surprised. Who are you guys to  tell her she is crossing the line or otherwise. I guess they're expressing their opinion, just as she is. Anyone can comment on anything, right or wrong or off topic or whatever. If and when I say something either wrong or just plain stupid, it's open season- I accept that, and celebrate our forum's open situation. For me the Rabin days were nonesense. I owned 90125 back when it first came out, lost it somewhere along the line since then, and am in no hurry to get it back. There's so much other music out there I want to explore that I don't really have the time or interest to investigate Yes' later work. You may be right about Rabin's contributions; others disagree, and I just don't care. I learned a long time ago that it's extremely unlikely to love everything a band does, and for me they could never top "Close to the Edge" or "Starship Troopers" or "America". It's a specific point in time as well as a specific band that just couldn't exist anymore. I don't blame them, or hate Rabin, or long for the good old days. I'll bet they can still put on a good show. I believe my peruvian soul brother will qualify this.Back to SV you tell them what you think. BTW: Thanks Ivan (and threefates), I didn't know about the YesWest thing- I think it's perfectly acceptable to talk about 'American Yes' when the band is based in LA. I don't think that's what SV meant, but if it is then I apologize completely if I seemed to come down hard on you.

Most importantly, to Shrinking Violet: keep posting, keep saying anything you want to say. I'm not here to browbeat or intimidate anyone; the last thing I want to do is stifle anyone's expression.

I don't want to express my opinion about 90125 and Big Generator because it's well known, it's true that Trevor Rabin is from South Africa but the 90125 lineup is known as YES WEST and it's based in USA.

The Yes name was now owned by the 90125 line-up (known colloquially as YesWest and based in the USA), but without Anderson, who had again defected and formed Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe (known as YesEast and based in Britain). From: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Yes_(band)

So it's not unusual to call the Rabin lineup as American Yes, not because of the quality of the music but because the band was based in USA.

Danbo wrote:

Violet, I think the point of the contention was your classifying the Rabin ear Yes as "American." I must admit that I was pissed at your statement as well. JFYI, Rabin is from South Africa. Saying that it was pop or commercial is valid, however, America is not the only county where commercial music is played or encouraged. The 80's synth-pop came right out of the UK... I think.

I understand your point Danbo, calling the Rabin lineup American Yes only because they were based in USA in comparison with ABWH (YESEAST) that was based in UK is ok.

But to use the term American Yes to identfy the pop tendencies of Yes is wrong.

There are lots of great USA bands that are in the level of the best British bands like Kansas, Pavlov's Dog, Grand Funk Railroad, The Doors, Dream Theater, Glass Hammer, Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention, California Guitar Trio and 100 more.

Of course there is POP in USA, but there's also POP in UK, Italy, and even Ukraine.

Arbiter wrote:

No James, you are not being to sensitive. ShrinkingViolet crossed the line - Period, end of discussion! Shame on Fragile for supporting him - you're both acting like you're 13 yrs old. Never use a label - it's classless to do so and always makes someone angry.

Plese Arbiter, don't take things so seriously, Shrinking Violet only posted her opinion, she may be right or wrong but she's entitled to her opinion.

I can't disagree more with your opinions about Genesis and Yes, but I accept them because you're entitled to think Invisible Touch and Big Generator are great albums.

When I don't agree I simply post my opinion and I'm ready for a healthy discussion, at the end we're here to talk about the music we love but mostly to have fun and enjoy a discussion.

Lets agree with the right to disagree.

Iván

Violet, I think the point of the contention was your classifying the Rabin ear Yes as "American." I must admit that I was pissed at your statement as well. JFYI, Rabin is from South Africa. Saying that it was pop or commercial is valid, however, America is not the only county where commercial music is played or encouraged. The 80's synth-pop came right out of the UK... I think.

Either way, no harm done, just try not to generalize.

James Lee wrote: Am I being too sensitive? The term 'american' was used to imply something inauthentic and shallow and therefore less worthy, so I challenged it. I'd be willing to bet I'd get slammed if used the term 'scottish' to mean that something was humorless, intolerant, and rustic in the best Calvinist tradition.

No James, you are not being to sensitive. ShrinkingViolet crossed the line - Period, end of discussion! Shame on Fragile for supporting him - you're both acting like you're 13 yrs old. Never use a label - it's classless to do so and always makes someone angry. If your intention was to make someone angry, over a personal preference, you might want to seriously consider getting medical/psyschological attention (this is not meant as a knock, but rather sincere concern). And, come on, saying that the Isles own Prog is like saying "it's my ball so I make-up the rules". Give your heads a shake and grow up. Start a thread with that arguement instead, if you like.

We get it - you don't like Yes featuring Rabin - fine. You probably don't like Genesis without Gabriel and Hacket. Great. Your definition of good prog is different/narrower than that of others, terrific. It's great music IMHO. The truth of the matter is that in the end you have simply have less music to love.

Was it this sort of crap that eventually led to Peter leaving? (What exactly happened?) I'm new, but looking at some of the old posts it appears that it must of escalated way beyond this...but it, too, probably started with what someone thought was an innocent comment...

P.s. I've seen Yes on three different occaisions (Edge, Drama, 90125) - does this somehow make my opinion more valid?