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Svetonio ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
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Well, if someone hate contemporary prog, especially that modern instrumental progressive fusion and / or avant prog (above mentioned album is a great cocktail of that!) nor understand those sub-genres in general while on the same time thinking about early 70s Symphonic rock as "only" possible classic stuff, and yet if one want that some albums have to be mythologized that could be called classic, there's nothing that could help then.
Edited by Svetonio - May 06 2015 at 13:03 |
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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13338 |
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Isn't Oxymoron a band someone suggested for inclusion on PA?
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Nogbad_The_Bad ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 21543 |
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instant classic is an oxymoron
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13338 |
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If by "classic" you mean two unemployed college kids in their mom's living room noodling around with the foot pedals and snares they got for Christmas, then yeah, this is certainly a classic.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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*sigh* Here we go again.
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What?
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Svetonio ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
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An example of an insant classic album in progressive fusion genre; that's a debut album titled Random Abstarct released at 20 April 2015 on MoonJune Records, by Barcelona's duo called Xadu, i.e. Xavi Reja (already in Prog Archives due to my suggestion) on drums and Dušan Jevtović on guitar
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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I first bought and listened to Close to the Edge around 1990. Was it a classic album when I first acquired it?
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dr wu23 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20696 |
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That was indeed what I meant. So , can we even get into calling Ok Computer, De-loused and Road of Bones classics at this stage...? |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Smurph ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 11 2012 Location: Columbus&NYC Status: Offline Points: 3167 |
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Ok Dean. That makes more sense to me thanks for reading all my dribble! :)
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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13338 |
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Revolver did indeed have far less hype, but it was critically praised at the time, with contemporary reviewers using the words "exceptional excellence", "a revolutionary record", "full of musical ingenuity", "a brilliant album", "the pinnacle of pop music" and "the Beatles have definitely broken the bounds of what we used to call pop". Strange as it may seem, my mother bought me the album for Christmas that year because I so loved The Beatles cartoon. Looking back, she may have considered it an error on her part.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Flight123 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 01 2010 Location: Sohar, Oman Status: Offline Points: 1399 |
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I am not sure if classics are instantly recognised but in my humble opinion, what we might regard as 'classic era prog' has been exhausted from around 1976 onwards. Thus, the classics such as Close to the Edge, Tarkus etc. will remain as such. It also goes back to how we define 'progressive': there will be no new classics from bands that follow the blueprint laid down in the early 70s but from innovators. The only band to really do this (produce 'classics') twice was King Crimson who experimented with minimalism when Fripp reformed them in the early 80s and shed the trappings of early prog instrumentation and structure.
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timothy leary ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
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Are classics instantly recognized? For instance, the Beatles album Revolver, which never received the hype Sgt Peppers got but now is recognized by some to be the better album. I am not saying Revolver is a classic this is just an example for discussion purposes.
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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What?
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terramystic ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 02 2005 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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Some prog classics from 80's:
RUSH - Moving Pictures, Permanent Waves MARILLION - SFAJT, Misplaced Childhood KING CRIMSON - Discipline |
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terramystic ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 02 2005 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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"Classic" = representative, exemplary, the best of its kind, masterpiece ... and timeless.
Every musical genre/subgenre can have classic examples. Prog is something that is still alive after 40+ years. As long as there is a permanent base of listeners new (post 70's) classics can be established. Decline in publicity, impact and fame doesn't change that. "Modern classics" is a contradiction in terms. I think recent albums can't be classics because we need the test of time. Road of Bones for example can only be a potential classic. It's hard to determine a strict boundary of time. The longer the time more stronger the certainty. I think 10 years at least must pass to have some certainty about classic status. Therefore the most recent classics can only be from 90's. Let's look at the top prog albums list what is ranked high: ANGLAGARD - Hybrys OPETH - Still Life DREAM THEATER - Images And Words, Metropolis Part 2 If we extend the list for a few years maybe also: POS - The Perfect Element, Death - Symbolic, Riverside - SLS, PT - In Absentia, Opeth - BP and GR, Tool - Lateralus. |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Back then five years was quite a long time even when measured in Prog-years. CttE gets a mere three words in your favourite Prog picture book (and no cover picture).
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Svetonio ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
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By the way, at the time when Going For The One was recorded and packed in that anti-Roger Dean album cover, Close To The Edge already was 'a classic symphonic rock album'. Not much time it really needed in many cases.
Edited by Svetonio - May 06 2015 at 04:47 |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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This is quite difficult to explain because it's not something that you can apply a rule-set to. The 1972 Ford Mustang is a Classic, the 1978 model isn't yet both qualify as "classic cars" if you apply the simple criteria that classic cars are between 30 and 40 years old. Nor is this necessarily a comparative thing - if the 1972 Mustang didn't exist the 1978 model still wouldn't be a classic. In time perhaps the 2004 Mustang will be held in the same regard as the '72 models - it has the potential of being a classic (but it ain't one yet). So I don't know whether any of these three albums will be regarded as classics in years to come. I think De-Loused has potential of being a classic, the other two I seriously doubt. This has nothing to do with my opinion of these albums or my age - yes I'm over 50, however I am familiar with all three of the artists you mention and own two of the albums - one I think is brilliant, the other is less remarkable than its predecessor (that our opinions differ on that particular score is somewhat irrelevant - you say In Glorious Times and I say I prefer Of Natural History does not lessen your regard for the former or imply the latter should be nominated for classic status). While I said it isn't necessarily a comparative thing, once a standard has been set then comparisons are inevitable if an album is elected to join the echelon of Classic Prog albums. But since the OP is asking for "modern-classic" Prog albums then comparisons can be brushed aside because we are inferring a different era. Yet that (undefined) era still has a time-dependency attached to it to have "stood the test of time". In literature the novels of Austen's Pride and Prejudice and Dickens Oliver Twist are regarded as classics whereas Kerouac's On The Road is a "modern classic" and Rowling's Harry Potter is not, (in years to come HP may be regarded as a classic.. or not). The next classification is "Instant Classic" - over the years lots of albums have been regarded as instant classics on their initial release but few of them stand the test of time. The initial furore of expectation and adoration dissipates with time or is surpassed by the next great thing, (Dream Theater once suffered greatly from this - now-a-days less so as no one seems to rate any of their later releases as highly as their earlier work). Dark Side of the Moon was recognised as a classic early in its life and has held on to that status, Close To The Edge took a while and Thick as a Brick was probably more retrospective. All of these albums have garnered new fans as time marched on (and a few who would dismiss them). The final classification is "Cult Classic" - This is more selective and covers less well known albums and artists - these are album that are recognised as outstanding in a particular narrowly defined field and are often those that have slowly built-up a relatively substantial following. Sleepytime Gorilla Museum and Mr Bungle would fit into this category if those albums were regarded as such by a cross-section of the [genre] fans (and not just one person's opinion). Speaking of Patton: Angel Dust is a classic album ... no one needs to explain why it is a classic, if you have to explain it then it probably isn't a classic. Edited by Dean - May 06 2015 at 04:10 |
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essexboyinwales ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: April 27 2015 Location: Bridgend Status: Offline Points: 5309 |
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Er, no...I'm Essexian.... but anyway.... interesting discussion (artwork aside ![]() A few more thoughts: I agree that we each have our own idea of what is "classic". I've always struggled with CTTE, but if I'd heard it when it first came out, rather than just a few years ago, maybe I'd have fallen for it like so many others did, but I just don't get it......but then I don't get a lot of Yes' output.... Modern classics? To the very recent ones I already nominated as possibles (Sound Of Contact, EEFP), I would have to add Images And Words and The Human Equation, two of my favourite albums, but not universally loved I know! And, weirdly, both featuring James LaBrie, so go figure that one.... ![]() |
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Svetonio ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
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Actually, there are not strictly rules re the times frames.
Edited by Svetonio - May 06 2015 at 00:21 |
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