People's problems with growling

I can enjoy some death growls , athough I am far from an expert in the genre. They are quite useful to express a certain kind of emotions , and suit a song well when used every once in a while. What would be of "The Leper Affinity" without growls?

CPicard wrote: rushfan4 wrote: topofsm wrote:   The point my original post is trying to make is that growling is not easy to do and is definetely a tool that should be used in a lot of music. Therefore even though people don't like it, they should be able to appreciate it, and I'm mostly getting posts on how people dislike it.   It takes quite a bit of talent to belch the alphabet too.  It doesn't mean that I want to hear it or can appreciate it, but I suppose at the right level of inebriation.....  What it comes down to though is that folks like yourself the growls enhance your listening experience, whereas for me it almost totally ruins it.  Beware of the condescendance. In death-metal, we don't belch in the micro. We vomit in it.

Oh right, I forgot.  

rushfan4 wrote: topofsm wrote:   The point my original post is trying to make is that growling is not easy to do and is definetely a tool that should be used in a lot of music. Therefore even though people don't like it, they should be able to appreciate it, and I'm mostly getting posts on how people dislike it.   It takes quite a bit of talent to belch the alphabet too.  It doesn't mean that I want to hear it or can appreciate it, but I suppose at the right level of inebriation.....  What it comes down to though is that folks like yourself the growls enhance your listening experience, whereas for me it almost totally ruins it.

Beware of the condescendance. In death-metal, we don't belch in the micro. We vomit in it.

Wasn't it Mike Oldfield and his "Piltdown Man" thing?

Is John Entwistle the first growler?

Jimbo wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Petrovsk Mizinski wrote: Yes, as was mentioned a few pages back, Jane Doe by Converge rules, one of my favorite albums right now and would sound totally wrong without the hardcore/metal screaming. I get what this thread is trying to achieve, but there are just some people's mind you just can't change. Baldfriede is apparently " right in at least 90% of the cases. So I wouldn't even bother arguing, because I don't have the time, the patience and the inclination and past threads. I don't really come much to this forum anymore cos I have too many music projects going and I spend most of my time on audio production forums, and learnign about that stuff now instead of PA, so chances are you if you argue my post I probably wont be back to read it for ages lol Someone also thinks Peter Hammill can do raw and aggressive. Fair enough to TGMRoblov, but clearly non of us more metal inclined people are not really going agree. There was a time when I didn't like death metal at all, but hell, I've sat there and heard all the classic Obituary, Morbid Angel, Death, Carcass, In Flames, At the Gates etc records (since really I'm more of a metal fan than "prog" fan anyway) so I have a huge appreciation for the style of music in general. Fact: If you do not have the proper technique, you will f**k your vocal chords. It takes plenty of time to master and if you want to be good at it you need proper training , like singing or even proper hardcore screaming. I know a few people that have totally ruined their voices/tendons, whatever, from playing instruments incorrectly and having improper vocal technique. To be fair I'm the goddamn weirdo that listens to drone doom, emo/pop rock, death metal, jazz fusion and avant garde minimalist stuff, hip hop and post rock in the space of about 6 hours so really I just tend to listen to most genres if I and something good in it, thing being I'm just picky about what I like in individual genres. Some people are super open to new stuff, like myself, and are willing to give stuff some serious time to appreciate it if I can't get into it straight away, others can't. Some people just genuinely don't like something no matter how many times you try to explain it to them. And that's cool, cos there is a lot of music people have tried to get me into that I just couldn't, no matter how much I tried. So yeah, whatever, I love death growls, but I honestly wouldn't expect someone like Baldfriede, who probably doesn't have that background in listening to the Floridian and Gothenburg death metal scene bands like I do, to like death metal and/or death metal growls. I AM open to new stuff, very much so. I would even be open to growling; I am not against it per se. on the contrary, any vocal technique is worth exploring. What I am against is the attitude behind growling, which I consider to be puerile. I can't take these growlers seriously at all because of this attitude. "Look what a dangerous guy I am; aren't you afraid of me"? Sorry, but that's is simply childish. I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I do find growls a bit silly when they're supposed to scare you (sorry guys!), but they can be used quite effectively to convey all sorts of feelings; especially sadness. Listen to this song - especially around the 5:30 mark - and you'll see that the growls in this case have absolutely nothing to do with appearing threatening or scary. On a general note, I'm relatively indifferent towards growling. Can't say that I'm a fan, but it doesn't really bother me anymore. In some cases (like the one above), it definitely adds feeling to the composition.

That's why I gave a 90% figure. Any vocal technique can be put to good use. Since I growl myself if appropriate I certainly am not against it per se. I just find that special attitude I described ("Me big scary man") ridiculous.

topofsm wrote: BaldFriede wrote: I can live with shrieking, screaming, sobbing and all other kinds of vocals - but growling? What's the point of it? Does any of you ever growl in real life? Probably not. The only thing growling reminds me of are third rate horror movies, and I immediately think the content of the song must be third rate horror stuff whenever a singer growls. The worst thing is that I am right in at least 90% of the cases.   No, but I do tend to speak my words with an operatic vibrato when I'm talking to people.   The point is I don't think it's a valid argument, because people don't play instruments or sing in 'real life' whatever that means.   The point my original post is trying to make is that growling is not easy to do and is definetely a tool that should be used in a lot of music. Therefore even though people don't like it, they should be able to appreciate it, and I'm mostly getting posts on how people dislike it.   I also agree on how difficult it is listening to black metal vocals. It just sounds like high pitched gurgling to me, though I listened to Wolves in the Throne Room and it changed my opinion drastically, because it made the bleak atmosphere so much better.

I don't mind growling in music when used sparingly, for the effect.  When used constantly, it makes me feel like the band is using that as a crutch.  Instead of having to write a melody, the vocalist can just vomit the words out of his throat.  I have a similar opinion of most rap, as well.

Snow Dog wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Petrovsk Mizinski wrote: Yes, as was mentioned a few pages back, Jane Doe by Converge rules, one of my favorite albums right now and would sound totally wrong without the hardcore/metal screaming. I get what this thread is trying to achieve, but there are just some people's mind you just can't change. Baldfriede is apparently " right in at least 90% of the cases. So I wouldn't even bother arguing, because I don't have the time, the patience and the inclination and past threads. I don't really come much to this forum anymore cos I have too many music projects going and I spend most of my time on audio production forums, and learnign about that stuff now instead of PA, so chances are you if you argue my post I probably wont be back to read it for ages lol Someone also thinks Peter Hammill can do raw and aggressive. Fair enough to TGMRoblov, but clearly non of us more metal inclined people are not really going agree. There was a time when I didn't like death metal at all, but hell, I've sat there and heard all the classic Obituary, Morbid Angel, Death, Carcass, In Flames, At the Gates etc records (since really I'm more of a metal fan than "prog" fan anyway) so I have a huge appreciation for the style of music in general. Fact: If you do not have the proper technique, you will f**k your vocal chords. It takes plenty of time to master and if you want to be good at it you need proper training , like singing or even proper hardcore screaming. I know a few people that have totally ruined their voices/tendons, whatever, from playing instruments incorrectly and having improper vocal technique. To be fair I'm the goddamn weirdo that listens to drone doom, emo/pop rock, death metal, jazz fusion and avant garde minimalist stuff, hip hop and post rock in the space of about 6 hours so really I just tend to listen to most genres if I and something good in it, thing being I'm just picky about what I like in individual genres. Some people are super open to new stuff, like myself, and are willing to give stuff some serious time to appreciate it if I can't get into it straight away, others can't. Some people just genuinely don't like something no matter how many times you try to explain it to them. And that's cool, cos there is a lot of music people have tried to get me into that I just couldn't, no matter how much I tried. So yeah, whatever, I love death growls, but I honestly wouldn't expect someone like Baldfriede, who probably doesn't have that background in listening to the Floridian and Gothenburg death metal scene bands like I do, to like death metal and/or death metal growls. I AM open to new stuff, very much so. I would even be open to growling; I am not against it per se. on the contrary, any vocal technique is worth exploring. What I am against is the attitude behind growling, which I consider to be puerile. I can't take these growlers seriously at all because of this attitude. "Look what a dangerous guy I am; aren't you afraid of me"? Sorry, but that's is simply childish. How so you know that is the attitude? I've never presumed that at all when I've heard it. You said you'd be open to growling, but your posts say otherwise.

It is the context which suggests it. Growling is used by a lot of metal bands whose image already is centered around that. The lyrics are mostly about dark and violent topics, so the conclusion is pretty logical.

I'm not offended by growling at all; I just crack up laughing whenever I hear it. I just can't take it seriously. Ever watch how-to-growl Youtube videos? Comedy gold.

Yes, as was mentioned a few pages back, Jane Doe by Converge rules, one of my favorite albums right now and would sound totally wrong without the hardcore/metal screaming.
I get what this thread is trying to achieve, but there are just some people's mind you just can't change.
Baldfriede is apparently " right in at least 90% of the cases. So I wouldn't even bother arguing, because I don't have the time, the patience and the inclination and past threads. I don't really come much to this forum anymore cos I have too many music projects going and I spend most of my time on audio production forums, and learnign about that stuff now instead of PA, so chances are you if you argue my post I probably wont be back to read it for ages lol

Someone also thinks Peter Hammill can do raw and aggressive. Fair enough to TGMRoblov, but clearly non of us more metal inclined people are not really going agree.
There was a time when I didn't like death metal at all, but hell, I've sat there and heard all the classic Obituary,
Morbid Angel, Death, Carcass, In Flames, At the Gates etc records (since really I'm more of a metal fan than "prog" fan anyway) so I have a huge appreciation for the style of music in general.

Fact: If you do not have the proper technique, you will f**k your vocal chords. It takes plenty of time to master and if you want to be good at it you need proper training , like singing or even proper hardcore screaming.
I know a few people that have totally ruined their voices/tendons, whatever, from playing instruments incorrectly and having improper vocal technique.

To be fair I'm the goddamn weirdo that listens to drone doom, emo/pop rock, death metal, jazz fusion and avant garde minimalist stuff, hip hop and post rock in the space of about 6 hours so really I just tend to listen to most genres if I and something good in it, thing being I'm just picky about what I like in individual genres.

Some people are super open to new stuff, like myself, and are willing to give stuff some serious time to appreciate it if
I can't get into it straight away, others can't.
Some people just genuinely don't like something no matter how many times you try to explain it to them.
And that's cool, cos there is a lot of music people have tried to get me into that I just couldn't, no matter how much I tried.
So yeah, whatever, I love death growls, but I honestly wouldn't expect someone like Baldfriede, who probably doesn't have that background in listening to the Floridian and Gothenburg death metal scene bands like I do, to like death metal and/or death metal growls.