Prog and Politics

John Gargo wrote: Cygnus X-2 wrote: When did this place turn into a political forum? Personally, I don't really care what one person's ideals are, so nobody should get angry. Remeber, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Everyone should take a breather and read this a few times.

You are quite new to this arent you!

Cygnus X-2 wrote: When did this place turn into a political forum? Personally, I don't really care what one person's ideals are, so nobody should get angry. Remeber, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Everyone should take a breather and read this a few times. 

Sweetnighter wrote: Reed Lover wrote: Sweetnighter wrote: . So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest. This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives. Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally. Two points here: 1. What makes you think you can spout that offensive nonesense in public? So you only help people you know?? What kind of insensitive, inhumane bollocks is that.What if the boot was on the other foot and America became an arid desert and hadnt enough food to sustain itself.Would you still think that way? People only matter if you know them? You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror lad. 2.You refer to a beggar as not being "decent" (by inferrence). You are the one who isnt decent if you think that! Shame!  You disgust me. You trot this crap off as if it were all hypothetical, something that only exists in a book.People are out there sleeping rough, in the cold and you think they should be left to rot?? Well done. When did you join the Inhuman Race?   What have I said thats offensive? Regarding the "people only matter if you know them", yes, I stand by that position. The people I know in my life matter to me! Those I don't know don't matter. How could they? I don't know who they are, what kind of people they are, what they think, how they look, etc etc etc. For all it matters they don't exist. Now that doesn't mean that I'm not sympathetic to suffering or hardship! I gave $20 to the tsunami relief effort. I heard this horrible story on the radio... this woman lost her entire family in the tsunami, and when some men came to her aid from a charitable organization, they raped her. I couldn't believe it... so I send some money overseas. Will I ever see if it does anything? No. Has my life changed as a result of sending the $20? No. I hope that it changed somebody else's life, but I guess I'll never know. Helping those close to you who are in need is much more fulfilling. Can you deny that? In my example with the beggar I had no intention of having him being depicted as indecent. He could be a nice human being... I was trying to make a different point. Yes, I realize there are a lot of poor people out there, but welcome to reality people. Sitting behind our computers in the comfort of western society, we have it pretty good, and we're very lucky. Others, on the other hand, don't. But what are you going to do? No superethical power is going to take control and start redistributing wealth. As ideal as that may be for some, it just won't happen. Just. Won't. Happen. The best we can do is rely on the efforts of people who voluntarity go out and help those in need and give the poor the political freedoms necessary to rise up the economic ladder. We can only show them the door... we can't push them through it. And as history has shown, simply showing them the door would be a feat in itself. Bettering society truly starts on the personal level... thats all anybody can do.

So they rise up the economical ladder.What happens in 100 yrs time when capitalism demands there has to be winners and losers? What if the so-called third world nations are top of the ladder and America is slipping down?When the jobs dry up, who is going to push you through the door?Just because a system is the "status quo" does not make it right or just.Dont you realise that the billionaire illuminati depend on you buying into their system. Once you start to ask questions you put their lifestyle in jeopardy.You are being conned, that is what the right wing parties always do. They convince no-marks like you to vote for them.You with your average lifestyle voting to maintain and guarantee the lifestyles of the very, very rich.You are sustaining a system that promotes "privelage". Privelage = inequality, and not just financial equality.We are talking about something far more disgusting.A systen that says "I am better than you because I have more money" If you dont see the problem in that then you are stupid.

So tell me. There are people starving to death at this very moment.How can it be right for one individual to have personal assets 100's of thousands times more than he could ever use?I suppose i am to accept this am i? I am not talking about Orwellian Nightmare senarios here. I acknowledge that people are entitled to be rewarded for success and achievement. I dont believe in robbing the well off to pay the poor. What i do say is that how can a system be right when a few people have so much money they cant even count it? And others to have none at all through no fault of their own.
Before you go on about Animal Farm and The Trees, tell me;how does Paris Hilton fit into the scheme of things. Justify her lifestyle to me..if you can.That is what you are promoting with your right wing beliefs.And trust me, she is just the tip of the iceberg.

Reed Lover wrote: [QUOTE=John Gargo][QUOTE=Reed Lover] Here's an idea-f**k off back to Greece, before that sh*t hole of a country (USA) f**ks up your mind totally.Do you know how ridiculous writing:"Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals..." makes you sound.Talk about the exception proves the rule! Whats greek for numb f**ker?

Gee Reed why don't you say what you really feel.

Reed Lover wrote: Sweetnighter wrote: . So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest. This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives. Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally. Two points here: 1. What makes you think you can spout that offensive nonesense in public? So you only help people you know?? What kind of insensitive, inhumane bollocks is that.What if the boot was on the other foot and America became an arid desert and hadnt enough food to sustain itself.Would you still think that way? People only matter if you know them? You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror lad. 2.You refer to a beggar as not being "decent" (by inferrence). You are the one who isnt decent if you think that! Shame!  You disgust me. You trot this crap off as if it were all hypothetical, something that only exists in a book.People are out there sleeping rough, in the cold and you think they should be left to rot?? Well done. When did you join the Inhuman Race?

When I had to take my girlfriend to the emergency ward at the hospital recently (nothing serious thank god) but we did have Aqualung in the bed next to us!

Seriously:

Reed has a good point.  No matter what faith, culture or nation we come from we are all each others reponsibility.  We could all be the unfortunate very quickly.

Sweetnighter wrote: . So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest. This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives. Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally.

Two points here:

1. What makes you think you can spout that offensive nonesense in public? So you only help people you know?? What kind of insensitive, inhumane bollocks is that.What if the boot was on the other foot and America became an arid desert and hadnt enough food to sustain itself.Would you still think that way? People only matter if you know them? You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror lad.

2.You refer to a beggar as not being "decent" (by inferrence). You are the one who isnt decent if you think that!

Shame!

 You disgust me. You trot this crap off as if it were all hypothetical, something that only exists in a book.People are out there sleeping rough, in the cold and you think they should be left to rot?? Well done. When did you join the Inhuman Race?

Reed Lover wrote: It appeals to the young middle class kiddies, Sausages.I dont think i could find myself ever empathising with someone who talks of "leftist" politics as being idealist.The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant. Typical of a scouser to be running scared of MENSA.Maybe the whole city could be allowed a combined score-could get you into treble figures...

Read The Mismeasure of Man - Stephen Jay Gould.

The only thing IQ tests measure is the ability to pass IQ tests.

Personally, I'm a paid up member of DENSA and I'm proud of it! And Manchester wouldn't even get into double figures.

It appeals to the young middle class kiddies, Sausages.I dont think i could find myself ever empathising with someone who talks of "leftist" politics as being idealist.The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant.

Typical of a scouser to be running scared of MENSA.Maybe the whole city could be allowed a combined score-could get you into treble figures...