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Reed Lover View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 20:04
I'm pretty good at doing "angry" and "vehement"Evil Smile



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 20:03
This is why we shouldnt share our banale beliefs on a music forum, specially not in the wrong section.LOL



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 20:02
Originally posted by John Gargo John Gargo wrote:

Originally posted by Cygnus X-2 Cygnus X-2 wrote:

When did this place turn into a political forum? Personally, I don't really care what one person's ideals are, so nobody should get angry. Remeber, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Everyone should take a breather and read this a few times. 

LOLLOL

You are quite new to this arent you!Wink




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 20:01
Originally posted by John Gargo John Gargo wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

These are not my crazy socialist ideals they happen to be the ideals of my country and much of Europe. Britain has the most bouyant economy in the world at the moment-with a Socialist government.It really sticks in my craw when some under-educated, over-ambitious, money -obsessed young toad like you knocks socialism.What you are actually saying is f**k everyone else.And i mean that in the nicest way-not.

Here's an idea-f**k off back to Greece, before that sh*t hole of a country (USA) f**ks up your mind totally.Do you know how ridiculous writing:"Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals..." makes you sound.Talk about the exception proves the rule!Confused

Whats greek for numb f**ker?Wink

Why this Reed Lover fellow is QUITE unpleasant.  I'll humor him though...

Under-educated, over-ambitious, money-obsessed young toad?   I wish you could see me right now because I'm laughing my ASS off.  You seem to be so sure of socialism and yet you get so worked up when someone on a message board starts criticising it?  LIGHTEN UP.  I'm not saying "f**k (can we not curse here?) everyone else."  Things aren't that black and white...  not all of England subscribes to socialism.  And I'm not cursing off those that do... I'm just saying that I personally believe that it's a misguided political philosophy.  Obviously, you're a bit insecure about your own beliefs if you allow yourself to fly off the handle that easily.

Also, do you know how ridiculous you sound when you attempt to correct someone on something that was already correct to begin with?  It makes you look pretty silly.  Look at what I wrote again.  NOT EVERY COUNTRY IS RE-EMBRACING.  Then you say talking about the exception proves the rule?!?!?  Ummmm... no, it doesn't.  Just because something is the dominant paradigm does not justify it.  And you call me uneducated?

Congratulations... you have succeeded in making yourself look foolish... 

You really think soEvil Smile

Lighten up????????????????????LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:59

Originally posted by Cygnus X-2 Cygnus X-2 wrote:

When did this place turn into a political forum? Personally, I don't really care what one person's ideals are, so nobody should get angry. Remeber, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Everyone should take a breather and read this a few times. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:57
When did this place turn into a political forum? Personally, I don't really care what one person's ideals are, so nobody should get angry. Remeber, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:47
Originally posted by Sweetnighter Sweetnighter wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Sweetnighter Sweetnighter wrote:

. So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest.

This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives.

Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally.



Two points here:

1. What makes you think you can spout that offensive nonesense in public? So you only help people you know?? What kind of insensitive, inhumane bollocks is that.What if the boot was on the other foot and America became an arid desert and hadnt enough food to sustain itself.Would you still think that way? People only matter if you know them? You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror lad.

2.You refer to a beggar as not being "decent" (by inferrence). You are the one who isnt decent if you think that!

Shame!

Dead You disgust me. You trot this crap off as if it were all hypothetical, something that only exists in a book.People are out there sleeping rough, in the cold and you think they should be left to rot?? Well done. When did you join the Inhuman Race?

 



What have I said thats offensive?

Regarding the "people only matter if you know them", yes, I stand by that position. The people I know in my life matter to me! Those I don't know don't matter. How could they? I don't know who they are, what kind of people they are, what they think, how they look, etc etc etc. For all it matters they don't exist. Now that doesn't mean that I'm not sympathetic to suffering or hardship! I gave $20 to the tsunami relief effort. I heard this horrible story on the radio... this woman lost her entire family in the tsunami, and when some men came to her aid from a charitable organization, they raped her. I couldn't believe it... so I send some money overseas. Will I ever see if it does anything? No. Has my life changed as a result of sending the $20? No. I hope that it changed somebody else's life, but I guess I'll never know. Helping those close to you who are in need is much more fulfilling. Can you deny that?

In my example with the beggar I had no intention of having him being depicted as indecent. He could be a nice human being... I was trying to make a different point.

Yes, I realize there are a lot of poor people out there, but welcome to reality people. Sitting behind our computers in the comfort of western society, we have it pretty good, and we're very lucky. Others, on the other hand, don't. But what are you going to do? No superethical power is going to take control and start redistributing wealth. As ideal as that may be for some, it just won't happen. Just. Won't. Happen. The best we can do is rely on the efforts of people who voluntarity go out and help those in need and give the poor the political freedoms necessary to rise up the economic ladder. We can only show them the door... we can't push them through it. And as history has shown, simply showing them the door would be a feat in itself. Bettering society truly starts on the personal level... thats all anybody can do.

So they rise up the economical ladder.What happens in 100 yrs time when capitalism demands there has to be winners and losers? What if the so-called third world nations are top of the ladder and America is slipping down?When the jobs dry up, who is going to push you through the door?Just because a system is the "status quo" does not make it right or just.Dont you realise that the billionaire illuminati depend on you buying into their system. Once you start to ask questions you put their lifestyle in jeopardy.You are being conned, that is what the right wing parties always do. They convince no-marks like you to vote for them.You with your average lifestyle voting to maintain and guarantee the lifestyles of the very, very rich.You are sustaining a system that promotes "privelage". Privelage = inequality, and not just financial equality.We are talking about something far more disgusting.A systen that says "I am better than you because I have more money" If you dont see the problem in that then you are stupid.

So tell me. There are people starving to death at this very moment.How can it be right for one individual to have personal assets 100's of thousands times more than he could ever use?I suppose i am to accept this am i? I am not talking about Orwellian Nightmare senarios here. I acknowledge that people are entitled to be rewarded for success and achievement. I dont believe in robbing the well off to pay the poor. What i do say is that how can a system be right when a few people have so much money they cant even count it? And others to have none at all through no fault of their own.
Before you go on about Animal Farm and The Trees, tell me;how does Paris Hilton fit into the scheme of things. Justify her lifestyle to me..if you can.That is what you are promoting with your right wing beliefs.And trust me, she is just the tip of the iceberg.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:37
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

These are not my crazy socialist ideals they happen to be the ideals of my country and much of Europe. Britain has the most bouyant economy in the world at the moment-with a Socialist government.It really sticks in my craw when some under-educated, over-ambitious, money -obsessed young toad like you knocks socialism.What you are actually saying is f**k everyone else.And i mean that in the nicest way-not.

Here's an idea-f**k off back to Greece, before that sh*t hole of a country (USA) f**ks up your mind totally.Do you know how ridiculous writing:"Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals..." makes you sound.Talk about the exception proves the rule!Confused

Whats greek for numb f**ker?Wink

Why this Reed Lover fellow is QUITE unpleasant.  I'll humor him though...

Under-educated, over-ambitious, money-obsessed young toad?   I wish you could see me right now because I'm laughing my ASS off.  You seem to be so sure of socialism and yet you get so worked up when someone on a message board starts criticising it?  LIGHTEN UP.  I'm not saying "f**k (can we not curse here?) everyone else."  Things aren't that black and white...  not all of England subscribes to socialism.  And I'm not cursing off those that do... I'm just saying that I personally believe that it's a misguided political philosophy.  Obviously, you're a bit insecure about your own beliefs if you allow yourself to fly off the handle that easily.

Also, do you know how ridiculous you sound when you attempt to correct someone on something that was already correct to begin with?  It makes you look pretty silly.  Look at what I wrote again.  NOT EVERY COUNTRY IS RE-EMBRACING.  Then you say talking about the exception proves the rule?!?!?  Ummmm... no, it doesn't.  Just because something is the dominant paradigm does not justify it.  And you call me uneducated?

Congratulations... you have succeeded in making yourself look foolish... 



Edited by John Gargo
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:32
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by John Gargo John Gargo wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant.

If this is me you're talking to, I'd like to correct you.  I'm actually Greek, but I happen to live in America.  Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals...

If you'd take your blinkers off for a second you would realise I was addressing Sweetnighter!

These are not my crazy socialist ideals they happen to be the ideals of my country and much of Europe. Britain has the most bouyant economy in the world at the moment-with a Socialist government.It really sticks in my craw when some under-educated, over-ambitious, money -obsessed young toad like you knocks socialism.What you are actually saying is f**k everyone else.And i mean that in the nicest way-not.

Here's an idea-f**k off back to Greece, before that sh*t hole of a country (USA) f**ks up your mind totally.Do you know how ridiculous writing:"Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals..." makes you sound.Talk about the exception proves the rule!Confused

Whats greek for numb f**ker?Wink



You make that sound like not being a socialist is immoral! Thats absurd! Caring about others and being a socialist are definitely NOT THE SAME THING . I imagine John Gargo, like myself, simply feels that there are better ways to improve society than having blowhard politicians sitting on their fat rich asses telling the world how immoral it is and stealing from those who have rightfully earned their money to give it to the poor...  and far too often special interests. Would somebody tell me why socialists are so trusting of the fat greasy pigs in DC and London?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:28
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Sweetnighter Sweetnighter wrote:

. So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest.

This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives.

Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally.



Two points here:

1. What makes you think you can spout that offensive nonesense in public? So you only help people you know?? What kind of insensitive, inhumane bollocks is that.What if the boot was on the other foot and America became an arid desert and hadnt enough food to sustain itself.Would you still think that way? People only matter if you know them? You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror lad.

2.You refer to a beggar as not being "decent" (by inferrence). You are the one who isnt decent if you think that!

Shame!

Dead You disgust me. You trot this crap off as if it were all hypothetical, something that only exists in a book.People are out there sleeping rough, in the cold and you think they should be left to rot?? Well done. When did you join the Inhuman Race?

 



What have I said thats offensive?

Regarding the "people only matter if you know them", yes, I stand by that position. The people I know in my life matter to me! Those I don't know don't matter. How could they? I don't know who they are, what kind of people they are, what they think, how they look, etc etc etc. For all it matters they don't exist. Now that doesn't mean that I'm not sympathetic to suffering or hardship! I gave $20 to the tsunami relief effort. I heard this horrible story on the radio... this woman lost her entire family in the tsunami, and when some men came to her aid from a charitable organization, they raped her. I couldn't believe it... so I send some money overseas. Will I ever see if it does anything? No. Has my life changed as a result of sending the $20? No. I hope that it changed somebody else's life, but I guess I'll never know. Helping those close to you who are in need is much more fulfilling. Can you deny that?

In my example with the beggar I had no intention of having him being depicted as indecent. He could be a nice human being... I was trying to make a different point.

Yes, I realize there are a lot of poor people out there, but welcome to reality people. Sitting behind our computers in the comfort of western society, we have it pretty good, and we're very lucky. Others, on the other hand, don't. But what are you going to do? No superethical power is going to take control and start redistributing wealth. As ideal as that may be for some, it just won't happen. Just. Won't. Happen. The best we can do is rely on the efforts of people who voluntarity go out and help those in need and give the poor the political freedoms necessary to rise up the economic ladder. We can only show them the door... we can't push them through it. And as history has shown, simply showing them the door would be a feat in itself. Bettering society truly starts on the personal level... thats all anybody can do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:27
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

[QUOTE=John Gargo][QUOTE=Reed Lover] Here's an idea-f**k off back to Greece, before that sh*t hole of a country (USA) f**ks up your mind totally.Do you know how ridiculous writing:"Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals..." makes you sound.Talk about the exception proves the rule!Confused

Whats greek for numb f**ker?Wink

 

Gee Reed why don't you say what you really feel.

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:24

Originally posted by John Gargo John Gargo wrote:

Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant.

If this is me you're talking to, I'd like to correct you.  I'm actually Greek, but I happen to live in America.  Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals...

If you'd take your blinkers off for a second you would realise I was addressing Sweetnighter!

These are not my crazy socialist ideals they happen to be the ideals of my country and much of Europe. Britain has the most bouyant economy in the world at the moment-with a Socialist government.It really sticks in my craw when some under-educated, over-ambitious, money -obsessed young toad like you knocks socialism.What you are actually saying is f**k everyone else.And i mean that in the nicest way-not.

Here's an idea-f**k off back to Greece, before that sh*t hole of a country (USA) f**ks up your mind totally.Do you know how ridiculous writing:"Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals..." makes you sound.Talk about the exception proves the rule!Confused

Whats greek for numb f**ker?Wink




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:20
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

Originally posted by Sweetnighter Sweetnighter wrote:

. So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest.

This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives.

Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally.



Two points here:

1. What makes you think you can spout that offensive nonesense in public? So you only help people you know?? What kind of insensitive, inhumane bollocks is that.What if the boot was on the other foot and America became an arid desert and hadnt enough food to sustain itself.Would you still think that way? People only matter if you know them? You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror lad.

2.You refer to a beggar as not being "decent" (by inferrence). You are the one who isnt decent if you think that!

Shame!

Dead You disgust me. You trot this crap off as if it were all hypothetical, something that only exists in a book.People are out there sleeping rough, in the cold and you think they should be left to rot?? Well done. When did you join the Inhuman Race?

 

 

When I had to take my girlfriend to the emergency ward at the hospital recently (nothing serious thank god) but we did have Aqualung in the bed next to us!

 

Seriously:

Reed has a good point.  No matter what faith, culture or nation we come from we are all each others reponsibility.  We could all be the unfortunate very quickly.

 

 

 

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:12
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant.

If this is me you're talking to, I'd like to correct you.  I'm actually Greek, but I happen to live in America.  Also, the Greek socialist party lost it's first election in a long time in Greece last year, so not every country is re-embracing your crazy (and I mean that in the nicest way  ) socialist ideals...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 19:06

Originally posted by Sweetnighter Sweetnighter wrote:

. So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest.

This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives.

Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally.



Two points here:

1. What makes you think you can spout that offensive nonesense in public? So you only help people you know?? What kind of insensitive, inhumane bollocks is that.What if the boot was on the other foot and America became an arid desert and hadnt enough food to sustain itself.Would you still think that way? People only matter if you know them? You need to take a good look at yourself in the mirror lad.

2.You refer to a beggar as not being "decent" (by inferrence). You are the one who isnt decent if you think that!

Shame!

Dead You disgust me. You trot this crap off as if it were all hypothetical, something that only exists in a book.People are out there sleeping rough, in the cold and you think they should be left to rot?? Well done. When did you join the Inhuman Race?

 



Edited by Reed Lover



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 18:54
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Anyway, back on my soap box - Ayn Rand belongs in the same circle of Hell as white supremacists, MENSA, the British National Party, Jean Marie Le Pen, Pol Pot, UKIP, Uncle Joe Stalin, Eugene Terreblanche, Mao Tse Tung, Oswald Mosely and Idi Amin (to name but a few).

Approach her alleged ideas with extreme caution.



How does Ayn Rand belong in that circle in any way? If Rand was in that "circle of hell" she certainly wouldn't have any friends... racists, nationalists, and socialists are people that she probably wouldn't be able to sit down and have a nice cup of coffee with .

Rand's main message is often misrepresented by simply being labeled as "selfish", without true consideration of her ideas. In Rand's book "The virtue of selfishness" (which I've read) Rand makes a couple of points very clear. First, she makes clear that rational selfishness is not destructive towards others. A rational human being sees no merit in destroying another's person or property. We all have something to offer, and the selfish individual will do what he can to gain from others, and others will seek to gain from him. Volitional (NOT forced) agreements like this lead to peaceful interactions between people, allow everybody the opportunity to prosper, and foster genuine feelings of compassion and humanity. So yes, Rand values human relationships and sees good in friends helping friends, she just doesn't see the rationality behind a decent person walking out into the ghetto to give what he/she rightfully earned to some mumbling beggar that he/she doesn't care about in the slightest.

This makes sense. We help people who we care about, and we don't help people who play no role in our lives.

Now honestly, what is so hellish about that? Despite what others may think or like to think, she doesn't support a business owner who hooks up with the government so he can employ thousands of people at starving wages legally.

Send me a PM if you have other specific questions... although I'm not an authority on her works I've read all of her classic fiction novels and a few of her nonfiction books as well. I'll do my best to interpret what I think she's saying (god, i'm so selfish )

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 18:32
Originally posted by Reed Lover Reed Lover wrote:

It appeals to the young middle class kiddies, Sausages.I dont think i could find myself ever empathising with someone who talks of "leftist" politics as being idealist.The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant.Pinch

Typical of a scouser to be running scared of MENSA.Maybe the whole city could be allowed a combined score-could get you into treble figures...Wink

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 18:28
Originally posted by nacho nacho wrote:

[QUOTE=mirco]

"If your not leftish in your twenties, you have no hart;

if you still leftish in your fourties, yo have no brain"

Something like that was wrote by Churchill, what do you thing about that statement?

He'd probably drunk about 2 bottles of brandy when he said that. Presumably this was the same Churchill who was a keen supporter of eugenics and sent in armed troops to deal with striking Welsh miners. Great wartime leader yes; source of inifinite enlightenment and wisdom no.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 18:24

It appeals to the young middle class kiddies, Sausages.I dont think i could find myself ever empathising with someone who talks of "leftist" politics as being idealist.The kid is American so obviously doesnt realise that the rest of the world is re-embracing socialism as an alternative to f**king everyone with a low income right up the ass-without lubricant.Pinch

Typical of a scouser to be running scared of MENSA.Maybe the whole city could be allowed a combined score-could get you into treble figures...Wink




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Joined: November 18 2004
Location: Spain
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Points: 521
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2005 at 18:21
Originally posted by mirco mirco wrote:

"If your not leftish in your twenties, you have no hart;

if you still leftish in your fourties, yo have no brain"

Something like that was wrote by Churchill, what do you thing about that statement?

(OK, Churchill ain't prog, I know, I know...)

 

Oh sh*t, I'm completely brainless!!!

 

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