| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Scratchy 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 110
|
 Posted: December 17 2009 at 20:06 |
 Stool Man wrote:
I got into prog about five years ago, but I got into Pink Floyd in the early 70s.
Three things about Wish You Were Here which I'd consider prog are:
1. It's a concept album
2. It includes a long piece divided into two multi-part halves
3. It includes various sound effects throughout (glasses, laughter, footsteps, radio tuning, etc)
But my favourite albums are Ummagumma & Atom Heart Mother
|
None of those 3 points you make above I would regard as what defines what Prog is.1) other genres of music have had a concept - classical music, some pop music is even conceptual.2) you can have a 2 minute Prog track.3) I would associate that more with experimental or psychedelic music in general.
|
 |
Scratchy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 110
|
Posted: December 17 2009 at 19:58 |
I'm glad some people on here can also differenciate between Progressive Rock, Symphonic Rock, Virtuoso music & Instrumental Rock.Prog uses & sometimes combines all of the latter three, but none of the latter three define what progressive rock is.To be Prog you have to let your musical imaginations fly & break out of all musical classifications & be non-formuliac.
Psychedelic music only has to have an element of distorted music (which shadows the effect what you would her if under a psychedelic drug).Avant-garde music is generally non-formuliac but it generally keeps within it's eschewed form unless it also becomes progressive as well - if you know what I mean.Anybody else have a better way of differentiating the differences ??? Perhaps there are other genres which get confused in with what Prog is about as well (Pomp rock ???).
|
|
The Sleepwalker
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 03 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 15141
|
Posted: December 17 2009 at 16:36 |
Atavachron wrote:
RoyFairbank wrote:
Wish You Were Here was not their best work (that being Animals or the Final Cut in this posters opinion) but even it has a moral force that clearly distinguishes it from other acts which to their credit and our enjoyment consider rock and roll a form of artistic expression.
|
wow you have to be a real veteran Floyd fan to think TFC is their best.. that's comparable to a Zep fan liking Coda best (which I assure you a few old timer Zep fanatics do)
|
There are many people who really like TFC. I'm one of those and it's easily among my top 5 albums ever, but I'm a pretty big fan.
Now on the topic: I think Pink Floyd is prog without a single doubt. Their music is innovative, experimental and very often conceptual. They might be not as complicated as Yes or a band like that, but IMO complexity is not important for a band to be prog. Songs like "Echoes" and "Atom Heart Mother" are progressive without a doubt, as they feature many changes (both in mood and musicality), experimentalism and they feature things like reprises to make it feel like one big thing.
|
|
|
|
Tsevir Leirbag
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009
Location: Montréal
Status: Offline
Points: 8321
|
Posted: December 17 2009 at 16:01 |
Really, WHAT is the point of this thread. I personally hate threads like that.
Pink Floyd IS a progressive band. My favorite progressive band.
Have you ever listened to Animals, Meddle or Atom Heart Mother? It doesn't look so.
And come on... Wish You Were Here, not progressive? You got to be kidding!
|
|
Les mains, les pieds balancés
Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers,
Un marin mort,
Il dormira
- Paul Éluard
|
|
himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1601
|
Posted: December 17 2009 at 14:40 |
I don't feel that Pink Floyd is overly progressive, but they are a very good psychedelic rock band that in some ways crosses over into progressive music. And that small amount that they do cross over with seemed to be apparent pretty early for prog.
EDIT: Sorry about the triple post, my computer kind of just froze and went crazy.
Edited by himtroy - December 17 2009 at 14:43
|
|
TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
|
Posted: December 17 2009 at 13:16 |
Bonnek wrote:
That is the strangest question I have ever seen so far on this forum.
If Pink Floyd is not prog then what am I doing here 
Reasons? Innovation, originality, space, progressing song development, bombast, big concepts, excellent musicianship and general awesomeness.
Yeah sure, they're not symphonic twideledoo like ELP but symphonic prog is just one of the 22 subs on PA.
|
I have to agree with this. The twideledoo seems to get more credit. Sort of like, the more notes you play the closer you are to becoming full fledged prog. It is a misconception to a degree by some folks as they prefer gymnastics in playing. This is okay within itself just as long as the person does not reflect a macho attitude about it however that reflection is present in a good percentage of the music world anyway so, what can you do?  As I continue to tie myself in knots, I must add that too many notes are not always of the best intensions. Syd Barrett basically taught Roger Waters the concept of when not to play. It was an important rule based around the development of their music.
|
|
Bonnek
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 01 2009
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 4521
|
Posted: December 17 2009 at 12:25 |
That is the strangest question I have ever seen so far on this forum. If Pink Floyd is not prog then what am I doing here Reasons? Innovation, originality, space, progressing song development, bombast, big concepts, excellent musicianship and general awesomeness. Yeah sure, they're not symphonic twideledoo like ELP but symphonic prog is just one of the 22 subs on PA.
|
|
TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
|
Posted: December 17 2009 at 08:44 |
I was exposed to the music of Tangerine Dream back in 1971. During that time period many avant-garde fans that listened to 20th century composers would sometimes give Ummagumma a spin for good measure. Many kids my age would light candles, do other things, and sit in a circle like hippie wanna be's enjoying the fruits of Ummagumma. The album was respected in 2 different social circles. I thought of the album as a experimental adventure with avant-garde and others felt it was a record to trip on. The experimental adventure crowd brought the Pink Floyd band into prog classification while others of my generation used it for drug endulgence or thought it was just too weird for any classification at all. The experimental electronic styles of Pink Floyd and many others crossed into the prog area with bands like Eloy. So it's really the crossover concept that we are talking about when we consider early Floyd relative to prog.
|
|
kis-ka
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 24 2008
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 32
|
Posted: December 17 2009 at 06:00 |
Johnnytuba wrote:
Scratchy wrote:
Johnnytuba wrote:
Kashmir75 wrote:
I have a friend from uni who denies that Floyd (a band he loves) are prog rock (a term he disdains). He also loves Radiohead and refuses to associate them with the genre. Both of these bands created previously unheard of sounds and ideas, if that isn't prog, then what is?
I honestly had never heard anything like Kid A before that album came out. Same with DSOTM.
I can actually see why Sabbath are on the Archives. They did a great deal of experimenting with their sound in later albums. But they are still first and foremost, metal pioneers, not prog per se. But I love Sabbath and don't really care if they're prog or not.
I don't, in general, give a toss whether something is prog or not. I only care if I like the band or not. |
I don't care if a band is prog or not either. I also only care if I like the band or not. Regardless, I feel that this is all only a matter of opinion |
I assume you also like bands that have a much narrower / formulaic / generic style as I do as well.I also come back to Prog eventually though & always go for bands that have an open minded ,you could say, progressive element to their music (including Sabbath to a certain extent).
In more modern times Radiohead are one of the main forces behind breaking down barriers between Prog & the previously more biased punk associations of indie / alternative rock & vis-versa which still exists today & is a good thing in my opinion.There has been alot of so called alternative musicians and music fans that are not so worried about the almost fascist dividing lines between genres & fuse together different styles including Prog.Some admit their Prog associations while there are still others that hold true to the views generally formed in the late '70's & passed through on to newer musicians / audiences.
It is hoped that there will still be an audience for Progressive or the more expansive forms of music continue to develope, which have been under pressure, at certain periods, but seems to be very healthy at the moment - may it continue.The general media will always prefer music styles that they can commercially control more easily - punk-pop (now power pop ??) & indie pop are two recent sub genres that have gathered alot of support from certain sectors of the media this can be applied to.
Saying you don't really care what music it is, as long as you like it is being slighty ignorant of the commercial forces that exist within music.There are some kinds of music that just demand support because they ascue these commercial forces. |
I don't think it is ignorant to say that. Some people won't even give non-prog music a second look, or vice versa. It is ok to not care about what genre of music it is as long as it appeals to you. That being said, I am glad to see all of the responses. I knew some people would get upset over this, but all in all, its a matter of opinion |
music, like every thing in life that we like is a matter of taste
|
|
most men think they are Gods-most women are atheists
|
|
Johnnytuba
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 02 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 377
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 16:46 |
Scratchy wrote:
Johnnytuba wrote:
Kashmir75 wrote:
I have a friend from uni who denies that Floyd (a band he loves) are prog rock (a term he disdains). He also loves Radiohead and refuses to associate them with the genre. Both of these bands created previously unheard of sounds and ideas, if that isn't prog, then what is?
I honestly had never heard anything like Kid A before that album came out. Same with DSOTM.
I can actually see why Sabbath are on the Archives. They did a great deal of experimenting with their sound in later albums. But they are still first and foremost, metal pioneers, not prog per se. But I love Sabbath and don't really care if they're prog or not.
I don't, in general, give a toss whether something is prog or not. I only care if I like the band or not. |
I don't care if a band is prog or not either. I also only care if I like the band or not. Regardless, I feel that this is all only a matter of opinion |
I assume you also like bands that have a much narrower / formulaic / generic style as I do as well.I also come back to Prog eventually though & always go for bands that have an open minded ,you could say, progressive element to their music (including Sabbath to a certain extent).
In more modern times Radiohead are one of the main forces behind breaking down barriers between Prog & the previously more biased punk associations of indie / alternative rock & vis-versa which still exists today & is a good thing in my opinion.There has been alot of so called alternative musicians and music fans that are not so worried about the almost fascist dividing lines between genres & fuse together different styles including Prog.Some admit their Prog associations while there are still others that hold true to the views generally formed in the late '70's & passed through on to newer musicians / audiences.
It is hoped that there will still be an audience for Progressive or the more expansive forms of music continue to develope, which have been under pressure, at certain periods, but seems to be very healthy at the moment - may it continue.The general media will always prefer music styles that they can commercially control more easily - punk-pop (now power pop ??) & indie pop are two recent sub genres that have gathered alot of support from certain sectors of the media this can be applied to.
Saying you don't really care what music it is, as long as you like it is being slighty ignorant of the commercial forces that exist within music.There are some kinds of music that just demand support because they ascue these commercial forces. |
I don't think it is ignorant to say that. Some people won't even give non-prog music a second look, or vice versa. It is ok to not care about what genre of music it is as long as it appeals to you. That being said, I am glad to see all of the responses. I knew some people would get upset over this, but all in all, its a matter of opinion
|
|
"The things that we're concealing, will never let us grow.
Time will do its healing, you've got to let it go.
|
|
LonesomeTwin
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 15 2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 18
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 10:40 |
|
Are they punk? No, the anger is internal, not exernal (but see Animals for exceptions to rules) Are they a 'pop group'. Yes, they had an Xmas #1 ffs. Are they prog? Yes. They play music outside 4/4 occasionally, they make a track last as long as it needs to and keyboards are an integral part of the sound. HTH?
|
|
I always had a deep respect I mean that most sincere
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 05:20 |
Johnnytuba wrote:
Noted, I will check the search function next time...... |
Welcome to the archives, by the the way. Beware of the bananas. 
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
|
Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Status: Offline
Points: 2689
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 03:46 |
Kestrel wrote:
Not all progressive rock is symphonic.
|
only about 25% of the listed Top 100 prog albums are by bands classed as Symphonic Prog
|
|
rotten hound of the burnie crew
|
|
Kestrel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 18 2008
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 512
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 03:38 |
|
Not all progressive rock is symphonic.
|
|
Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Status: Offline
Points: 2689
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 03:15 |
|
I got into prog about five years ago, but I got into Pink Floyd in the early 70s.
Three things about Wish You Were Here which I'd consider prog are:
1. It's a concept album
2. It includes a long piece divided into two multi-part halves
3. It includes various sound effects throughout (glasses, laughter, footsteps, radio tuning, etc)
But my favourite albums are Ummagumma & Atom Heart Mother
|
|
rotten hound of the burnie crew
|
|
theBox
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 427
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 03:13 |
|
|
|
|
|
progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 02:57 |
RoyFairbank wrote:
Pink Floyd is not only a progressive band, its the only progressive band. |
RoyFairbank wrote:
Read the lyrics of Pink Floyd and compare to the fantasy stories of Genesis and Yes |
Thats a pretty naive statement. How many Genesis or Yes songs have you actually listened to?
RoyFairbank wrote:
isten to the depth of the musical moods, textures and artistic patience - there is nothing formulaic |
If there is nothing 'formulaic' about Pink Floyd and their music, then why do they have concept albums? Why do they have lyrics? Why do they write music, rather than just randomly jam?
RoyFairbank wrote:
Think about the political and philosophical weight behind the Floyd's material |
Many bands have the same lyrical characteristics, but this does not make them progressive, or the only progressive band.
RoyFairbank wrote:
There is no one else like Floyd. Wish You Were Here was not their best work (that being Animals or the Final Cut in this posters opinion) but even it has a moral force that clearly distinguishes it from other acts which to their credit and our enjoyment consider rock and roll a form of artistic expression. |
True that there is no one else like PF, but that does not make them progressive. I agree about WYWH, and I find it funny that a lot of prog fans think they're most mainstream albums are their best 
I semi-agree about the moral force on the album, but that really is down to opinion. I get a bigger emotional reaction from Opeth than I do Floyd, but that doesn't mean Opeth are more emotive or that Floyd aren't emotionally charged - Its purely opinion based.
Edited by progkidjoel - December 16 2009 at 02:58
|
|
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65800
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 02:49 |
theBox wrote:
While I don't agree at all with the "all-inclusive" policy of the site, I can see how this works for a large number of people here, so...[/IMG]
|
compared to most other prog sites, this place is conservative
|
|
theBox
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 427
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 02:45 |
1. I DO consider PF prog, if only for AHM. Meddle and WYWH. 2. While I don't agree at all with the "all-inclusive" policy of the site, I can see how this works for a large number of people here, so... 3. Could we please at least cut down on the METAL, guys??? (half joking) 
|
|
|
|
Evan
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 13 2009
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 98
|
Posted: December 16 2009 at 02:18 |
Pink Floyd is prog in the same way that London Calling era The Clash is punk. Its not a textbook example (while at the same time its not completely alien), but it has historically been considered part of the movement and, as such, in a very Orwellian way they are definitely prog because of it. ![]()
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Pink Floyd Progressive Rock?
