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Siloportem 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 216
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 Posted: May 04 2015 at 02:18 |
Seems to me that for a record to be a classic: People who aren't music fans have to be aware of it one (or more) decades after its release.
I don't get the complaints about modern technology. Doesn't stuff like spotify make it easier to track popularity? A real modern classic shall eventually be played by radio stations after it has become popular on free services like spotify.
OK Computer, maybe images and words?
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Thanks !! Your topics always so good and informative. I like you talk.
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
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Points: 4098
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Posted: May 03 2015 at 20:36 |
 HackettFan wrote:
^I think the landscape will have to change. How can there be consensus on what's a classic when everyone (hyperbole alert) is listening to music through ear buds and no one buys stuff. By what social mechanism would something evolve into a classic? |
Well said--agree 100%. It's a new world out there.
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HackettFan
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Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
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Points: 7951
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Posted: May 03 2015 at 20:29 |
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^I think the landscape will have to change. How can there be consensus on what's a classic when everyone (hyperbole alert) is listening to music through ear buds and no one buys stuff. By what social mechanism would something evolve into a classic?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: May 03 2015 at 12:10 |
Komandant Shamal wrote:
For painting "sky", "clouds" and so on, with above mentioned sfumato effect, for young Roger Dean it was easier to do it with aerosol car enamel paints because in that case the jet is already set by manufacturer. With aibrush, it's much more diffucult to do it, because the painter have to control the jet and yet to avoid bleeding of paint what often happen [what knows damn well anyone who ever have been a hobby modeler of small aicrafts that have to be painted in a camouflage colors]. But the aerosol car enamel paint is inferior because you cant use it for small details [and yet on LP jacket sized piece of paper - when you hold an album jacket of Yes done by Roger Dean, it's the real size of an original Roger Dean work on paper - it's not a wall where graffiti artists are painting their big images] and also because the paints cannot be mixed in favor to get a several shades of one color. When you prepare paint for airbrush you can make a hue, and you can painting the details but you must be very, very skillful in that, and you need a time to practice that.
That's why Roger Dean's works from 70s are combination, though magnificent, of aerosol car enamel / guache(s) done with an airbrush (his skies, clouds, haze, etc.) and watercolors done with "normal" brushes for the small details.
BTW, Roger Dean as a young man was an industrial designer, not a painter. So he designed his floating islands, he didnt "just find" these forms while eg he was painting his visions with oil on canvas as eg Salvador Dali did.
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I fail to see the point you are attempting to make here - you have added absolutely nothing to what I have already said. If you want to agree with me then go ahead and agree with me but this is just getting ridiculous now.
And sorry... your playing with plastic toy models does not qualify you to discuss airbrush and aerosol can painting techniques at the level Roger Dean worked at. From what you have written here there is now little doubt in my mind that you know nothing of either technique other than what you quickly read on the internet today.
Are we finished now? Can we go back to talking about whether there is or ever will be a modern classic prog album?
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What?
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Komandant Shamal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2015
Location: Yugoslavia
Status: Offline
Points: 954
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Posted: May 03 2015 at 06:55 |
Dean wrote:
Komandant Shamal wrote:
Dean wrote:
Komandant Shamal wrote:
I believe you but it's not some special revelation that someone would be flattered by amazement as you probably expected, and i will explain you why. If you said that Roger Dean did do CttE front cover with aerosol car paints, it's ok, why not, but If i say that an aibrush was used at this cover of an album by Smak released in 1980.....
:: insert pointless cover image here ::
.....then everybody can see that effectivelly it's the same thing on that kind of covers ie that "big" difference in used technique is invisible on the final product.
:: insert pointless cover image here ::
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Dean wrote:
The Close to the Edge cover was not painted with an airbrush. Roger Dean didn't even own an airbrush at that time, his first airbrushed cover was Yessongs. The CttE inner cover was painted using cans of aerosol car enamel paint (See Views by Roger Dean page 105) - he wasn't happy with the final picture and you don't have to look that closely at it to see that the masking and spraying wasn't that great.
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So, you were saying?... |
Roger Dean used cans of car enamel paints because he didnt own yet an airbrush at that time as you read or he didn't know yet how to use that instrument on the right way as i speculated [with an aerosol can of paint it couldnt happen that, like airbrush if you dont know to handle well, begin to bleed the paint unevenly and that sh*t, this is the most important thing, cannot be fixed anymore, and all work could be destroyed in a blink of eye] but it doesnt matter actually because of his intention.
His intention was to use aerosol can enamel paint just for an effect - to blending one color to another like a smoke, or as Italians would say, to make sfumato.
Effectively, it's the same thing if he did it with an airbrush instead of the cans of aerosol enamel paint because the difference of those techniques is invisible at the final product ie CttE album jacket. Thats what i said. |
The picture on the inside of the gatefold was painted using cans of aerosol paint - the sky - the lake - the rocks - the waterfalls - the clouds & mist - the islands - all painted using cans of aerosol paint, the fine-detail and outlining was done by over-painting in ink. Got that? He didn't use aerosol cans for "effect"; he used them to make figurative art - the Octopus cover for Gentle Giant was car enamel, as were the first two Greenslade covers, the Mowtown Scarab and Osibisa Woyaya.
It is harder to do than using an airbrush because the nozzle and the airflow cannot be adjusted nor can they be regulated, it takes great technique and ability to make even the simplest composite images using them. Roger Dean perfected his technique over many years and was exceptionally good at it, however I can tell that CttE inner cover was not painted with an airbrush. If you cannot that does not concern me.
I repeat for the umpteenth time: His first airbrushed artwork was for Yessongs - the floating islands in space ("escape") was car enamel and the rest ("arrival", "awakening", "pathways") were all airbrush, his technique on those paintings shows that he knew how to use the instrument.
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For painting "sky", "clouds" and so on, with above mentioned sfumato effect, for young Roger Dean it was easier to do it with aerosol car enamel paints because in that case the jet is already set by manufacturer. With aibrush, it's much more diffucult to do it, because the painter have to control the jet and yet to avoid bleeding of paint what often happen [what knows damn well anyone who ever have been a hobby modeler of small aicrafts that have to be painted in a camouflage colors]. But the aerosol car enamel paint is inferior because you cant use it for small details [and yet on LP jacket sized piece of paper - when you hold an album jacket of Yes done by Roger Dean, it's the real size of an original Roger Dean work on paper - it's not a wall where graffiti artists are painting their big images] and also because the paints cannot be mixed in favor to get a several shades of one color. When you prepare paint for airbrush you can make a hue, and you can painting the details but you must be very, very skillful in that, and you need a time to practice that.
That's why Roger Dean's works from 70s are combination, though magnificent, of aerosol car enamel / guache(s) done with an airbrush (his skies, clouds, haze, etc.) and watercolors done with "normal" brushes for the small details.
BTW, Roger Dean as a young man was an industrial designer, not a painter. So he designed his floating islands, he didnt "just find" these forms while eg he was painting his visions with oil on canvas as eg Salvador Dali did.
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Stereolab
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 22 2014
Location: NorCal
Status: Offline
Points: 126
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Posted: May 03 2015 at 04:55 |
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I suspect one would find a lot more dissent against modern proposed classics than against the usual '70s suspects. I would only go as far as allowing for classics to be raised for particular sub-genres of prog; I really can't think of anything so fundamentally and widely acclaimed to count as a modern "prog" classic in the completely unqualified sense. In a way that's depressing, I suppose.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: May 03 2015 at 04:45 |
rogerthat wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
It seems to me that things are too fractured today. Not producing a genuine classic out of this particular age may not be peculiar to Prog. It's probably true of every music genre. I don't see any wave of support for any artist/artists anywhere. Maybe I just don't get around enough. |
Yup, for instance the popularity of Deloused has dipped greatly...to the extent that TMV got voted out against Heep on this forum. There used to be Dream Theater threads left, right and centre on this forum; now they only get into the conversation (EVEN on the DT appreciation thread) when they have a new album. Where are The Decemberists now; their albums were the toast of this forum at the time of their release. My point being that the popularity of modern 'classics' peaks pretty early and they fade away from public memory rather quickly. And it's not because they are bad vis-a-vis the classics of the 70s; it's simply that the music scene is too fragmented today and a small hardcore fanbase cannot prop up the popularity of an album for too long. I would say Kid A was the last prog classic and something dramatic needs to happen in the prog world (and the music industry in general) for that feat to be repeated. If Kid A is considered too weird and not 'inclusive' enough, then OK Computer but that's it. The likes of Genesis or Yes have either not made albums in years or not made albums that enough people care about and yet they remain in the conversation practically all the time while even a band like Porcupine Tree is not much discussed any more after they stopped making new albums. And PT did have crossover appeal; they pulled in fans who didn't otherwise care much for prog.
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I agree. I think outside the rarefied atmosphere of Prog OK Computer has achieved general Classic status, (Kid A less so perhaps), but it managed that in spite of being seen as Progressive Rock even in the loose sense of the word... it was probably regarded as being a "Classic" long before it was accepted as being "Prog" here. But within the confines of what we view as being Progressive Rock the fragmentation of sub-subgenres and tastes means that the chances of finding modern albums that have wide appeal within the genre as a whole are pretty slim.
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What?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 03 2015 at 04:26 |
Komandant Shamal wrote:
Dean wrote:
Komandant Shamal wrote:
I believe you but it's not some special revelation that someone would be flattered by amazement as you probably expected, and i will explain you why. If you said that Roger Dean did do CttE front cover with aerosol car paints, it's ok, why not, but If i say that an aibrush was used at this cover of an album by Smak released in 1980.....
:: insert pointless cover image here ::
.....then everybody can see that effectivelly it's the same thing on that kind of covers ie that "big" difference in used technique is invisible on the final product.
:: insert pointless cover image here ::
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Dean wrote:
The Close to the Edge cover was not painted with an airbrush. Roger Dean didn't even own an airbrush at that time, his first airbrushed cover was Yessongs. The CttE inner cover was painted using cans of aerosol car enamel paint (See Views by Roger Dean page 105) - he wasn't happy with the final picture and you don't have to look that closely at it to see that the masking and spraying wasn't that great.
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So, you were saying?... |
Roger Dean used cans of car enamel paints because he didnt own yet an airbrush at that time as you read or he didn't know yet how to use that instrument on the right way as i speculated [with an aerosol can of paint it couldnt happen that, like airbrush if you dont know to handle well, begin to bleed the paint unevenly and that sh*t, this is the most important thing, cannot be fixed anymore, and all work could be destroyed in a blink of eye] but it doesnt matter actually because of his intention.
His intention was to use aerosol can enamel paint just for an effect - to blending one color to another like a smoke, or as Italians would say, to make sfumato.
Effectively, it's the same thing if he did it with an airbrush instead of the cans of aerosol enamel paint because the difference of those techniques is invisible at the final product ie CttE album jacket. Thats what i said. |
Once again:
I said the INNER cover was painted using cans of aerosol car enamel paint. Got that? Has that sunk into your skull yet? I'm not talking about the simple two-colour blend on the front cover - that is such an arse-numbingly simple effect to do that it's not worthy of being discussed - but if you insist - no I cannot tell that CttE front cover was painted with cans of aerosol or an airbrush HOWEVER I CAN tell that that Smak cover was NOT painted with cans of aerosol paint (I also think that it could have been done better, it seems a little sloppy to me but maybe that's the effect they were going for). If you cannot see this then that really does not concern me, you would not be my first or second choice as an expert on art.
HOWEVER - I was NOT talking about the front cover I was talking about the INNER cover...
The picture on the inside of the gatefold was painted using cans of aerosol paint - the sky - the lake - the rocks - the waterfalls - the clouds & mist - the islands - all painted using cans of aerosol paint, the fine-detail and outlining was done by over-painting in ink. Got that? He didn't use aerosol cans for "effect"; he used them to make figurative art - the Octopus cover for Gentle Giant was car enamel, as were the first two Greenslade covers, the Mowtown Scarab and Osibisa Woyaya.
It is harder to do than using an airbrush because the nozzle and the airflow cannot be adjusted nor can they be regulated, it takes great technique and ability to make even the simplest composite images using them. Roger Dean perfected his technique over many years and was exceptionally good at it, however I can tell that CttE inner cover was not painted with an airbrush. If you cannot that does not concern me.
I repeat for the umpteenth time: His first airbrushed artwork was for Yessongs - the floating islands in space ("escape") was car enamel and the rest ("arrival", "awakening", "pathways") were all airbrush, his technique on those paintings shows that he knew how to use the instrument.
I present verifiable facts and the benefit of my experience with both techniques and you answer with speculation. All this reveals is how little you know of this subject.
/edit: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Switching from aerosol cans to airbrush is actually very easy. It does not surprise me that Roger Dean's first airbrushed artwork was of a high standard. Mastering airflow and nozzle setting takes but a few practice runs to perfect, as does mixing paint to the correct consistency. What takes a while getting use to is switching from one colour to another - with cans of paint you just put down one can and pick up another, the ambidextrous can even use one in each hand (that's not difficult either) but with an airbrush you have to clean the brush thoroughly first and that takes time. I partly resolved this by buying a second airbrush and you'll see many airbrush artists will have several brushes set-up with a broad palette of colours.
Edited by Dean - May 03 2015 at 05:02
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What?
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Komandant Shamal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2015
Location: Yugoslavia
Status: Offline
Points: 954
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Posted: May 03 2015 at 02:21 |
Dean wrote:
Komandant Shamal wrote:
I believe you but it's not some special revelation that someone would be flattered by amazement as you probably expected, and i will explain you why. If you said that Roger Dean did do CttE front cover with aerosol car paints, it's ok, why not, but If i say that an aibrush was used at this cover of an album by Smak released in 1980.....
:: insert pointless cover image here ::
.....then everybody can see that effectivelly it's the same thing on that kind of covers ie that "big" difference in used technique is invisible on the final product.
:: insert pointless cover image here ::
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Dean wrote:
The Close to the Edge cover was not painted with an airbrush. Roger Dean didn't even own an airbrush at that time, his first airbrushed cover was Yessongs. The CttE inner cover was painted using cans of aerosol car enamel paint (See Views by Roger Dean page 105) - he wasn't happy with the final picture and you don't have to look that closely at it to see that the masking and spraying wasn't that great.
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So, you were saying?... |
Roger Dean used cans of car enamel paints because he didnt own yet an airbrush at that time as you read or he didn't know yet how to use that instrument on the right way as i speculated [with an aerosol can of paint it couldnt happen that, like airbrush if you dont know to handle well, begin to bleed the paint unevenly and that sh*t, this is the most important thing, cannot be fixed anymore, and all work could be destroyed in a blink of eye] but it doesnt matter actually because of his intention.
His intention was to use aerosol can enamel paint just for an effect - to blending one color to another like a smoke, or as Italians would say, to make sfumato.
Effectively, it's the same thing if he did it with an airbrush instead of the cans of aerosol enamel paint because the difference of those techniques is invisible at the final product ie CttE album jacket. Thats what i said.
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4098
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 22:31 |
To answer your question--don't think there will be another prog album as note for note perfect as CTTE. 
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 21:28 |
HackettFan wrote:
It seems to me that things are too fractured today. Not producing a genuine classic out of this particular age may not be peculiar to Prog. It's probably true of every music genre. I don't see any wave of support for any artist/artists anywhere. Maybe I just don't get around enough. |
Yup, for instance the popularity of Deloused has dipped greatly...to the extent that TMV got voted out against Heep on this forum. There used to be Dream Theater threads left, right and centre on this forum; now they only get into the conversation (EVEN on the DT appreciation thread) when they have a new album. Where are The Decemberists now; their albums were the toast of this forum at the time of their release. My point being that the popularity of modern 'classics' peaks pretty early and they fade away from public memory rather quickly. And it's not because they are bad vis-a-vis the classics of the 70s; it's simply that the music scene is too fragmented today and a small hardcore fanbase cannot prop up the popularity of an album for too long. I would say Kid A was the last prog classic and something dramatic needs to happen in the prog world (and the music industry in general) for that feat to be repeated. If Kid A is considered too weird and not 'inclusive' enough, then OK Computer but that's it. The likes of Genesis or Yes have either not made albums in years or not made albums that enough people care about and yet they remain in the conversation practically all the time while even a band like Porcupine Tree is not much discussed any more after they stopped making new albums. And PT did have crossover appeal; they pulled in fans who didn't otherwise care much for prog.
Edited by rogerthat - May 02 2015 at 21:54
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 20:00 |
Lear'sFool wrote:
Pastmaster wrote:
After thinking about it, I honestly think an album being a 'classic' is all a matter of opinion. For example, I don't like many so-called 'classics' of prog. I don't like CttE, Thick as a Brick gets boring after awhile, I only like 'Dancing With the Moonlit Knight' from SEBtP, and I don't like ITCOTCK. When you think about it, it's pretty difficult to call an album you don't like a classic so that's why I think it's a matter of opinion. For example, I find AC/DC's 'Let There be Rock' album to be one of the greatest hard rock albums ever made and believe it to be a classic, but many would say 'Highway to Hell' or 'Back in Black' are classics. While I love those albums too, they didn't leave as much of an impact on me as 'Let There be Rock' did.
CttE is seen as one of if not the greatest prog album ever made, however I disagree. As far as Yes goes, I think 'Fragile' is a much better album, and it's among my favorites, so of course it leaves more of an impact on me. While it would make sense for an album to be called a classic once it has a huge influence on bands to come or something like that, there will always be people who don't like the 'classic' album. I think it's logical for different people to all have their different list of classic albums.
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Differences in choices of classics, I've seen, can be reflected in different groups, where the vast majority of a group will believe that such and such album is a classic or the classic from a band, while another group would have a majority disagree. Speaking of Yes, most big time progheads of course cite Close To The Edge as the crowning achievement of the band, but outside of those circles I've seen most people instead root for Fragile. Some folks here might be stunned to see how many times musicians featured on Amoeba Music's "What's In My Bag?" series picked Fragile. Perhaps, taking into account both the opinions of various progheads and outsiders, it can be said that the most quintessentially classic Yes album is in fact Fragile. |
Well, on the side of the great epics like Close to the Edge or Gates of Delirium, Heart of the Sunrise is their best song imo.
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Matthew _Gill
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Joined: June 07 2012
Location: Wakefield
Status: Offline
Points: 347
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 14:50 |
Controlling Crowds Part IV is a class album if you do indeed class Archive as prog.
Rajaz and OK Computer are great albums made away from the Golden Age of Prog.
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sublime220
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2015
Location: Willow Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 1563
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 14:43 |
Dean wrote:
Pastmaster wrote:
Dean wrote:
[So, no IQ The Road Of Bones is not such an album - if it achieves comparable status with Script for a Jester's Tear or Misplaced Childhood (which it won't) that still will not make it a classic album] |
I see it ranked much higher than those albums on multiple lists, including ours. |
Chart ranking (especially for a recently released album) does not make it a classic album. |
As much as find most things you argue with to be strenuous, this is absolutely correct. Brain Salad Surgery is almost always considered a classic. Yet it is beat by very unknown albums like Modry Efekt and Boris. The only one that could possibly be considered a classic later in my mind is The Raven (although something is telling me that Swans - To Be Kind will also be one).
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There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 8644
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 11:40 |
Pastmaster wrote:
After thinking about it, I honestly think an album being a 'classic' is all a matter of opinion. For example, I don't like many so-called 'classics' of prog. I don't like CttE, Thick as a Brick gets boring after awhile, I only like 'Dancing With the Moonlit Knight' from SEBtP, and I don't like ITCOTCK. When you think about it, it's pretty difficult to call an album you don't like a classic so that's why I think it's a matter of opinion. For example, I find AC/DC's 'Let There be Rock' album to be one of the greatest hard rock albums ever made and believe it to be a classic, but many would say 'Highway to Hell' or 'Back in Black' are classics. While I love those albums too, they didn't leave as much of an impact on me as 'Let There be Rock' did.
CttE is seen as one of if not the greatest prog album ever made, however I disagree. As far as Yes goes, I think 'Fragile' is a much better album, and it's among my favorites, so of course it leaves more of an impact on me. While it would make sense for an album to be called a classic once it has a huge influence on bands to come or something like that, there will always be people who don't like the 'classic' album. I think it's logical for different people to all have their different list of classic albums.
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Differences in choices of classics, I've seen, can be reflected in different groups, where the vast majority of a group will believe that such and such album is a classic or the classic from a band, while another group would have a majority disagree. Speaking of Yes, most big time progheads of course cite Close To The Edge as the crowning achievement of the band, but outside of those circles I've seen most people instead root for Fragile. Some folks here might be stunned to see how many times musicians featured on Amoeba Music's "What's In My Bag?" series picked Fragile. Perhaps, taking into account both the opinions of various progheads and outsiders, it can be said that the most quintessentially classic Yes album is in fact Fragile.
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Pastmaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2015
Location: Spiderwood Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 1774
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 11:03 |
After thinking about it, I honestly think an album being a 'classic' is all a matter of opinion. For example, I don't like many so-called 'classics' of prog. I don't like CttE, Thick as a Brick gets boring after awhile, I only like 'Dancing With the Moonlit Knight' from SEB tP, and I don't like ITCOTCK. When you think about it, it's pretty difficult to call an album you don't like a classic so that's why I think it's a matter of opinion. For example, I find AC/DC's 'Let There be Rock' album to be one of the greatest hard rock albums ever made and believe it to be a classic, but many would say 'Highway to Hell' or 'Back in Black' are classics. While I love those albums too, they didn't leave as much of an impact on me as 'Let There be Rock' did.
CttE is seen as one of if not the greatest prog album ever made, however I disagree. As far as Yes goes, I think 'Fragile' is a much better album, and it's among my favorites, so of course it leaves more of an impact on me. While it would make sense for an album to be called a classic once it has a huge influence on bands to come or something like that, there will always be people who don't like the 'classic' album. I think it's logical for different people to all have their different list of classic albums.
Edited by Pastmaster - May 02 2015 at 11:24
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 08:52 |
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It seems to me that things are too fractured today. Not producing a genuine classic out of this particular age may not be peculiar to Prog. It's probably true of every music genre. I don't see any wave of support for any artist/artists anywhere. Maybe I just don't get around enough.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 08:11 |
Komandant Shamal wrote:
twalsh wrote:
Could you name any bands that have made a really strong impression that are outside of the Anglo-centric realm? |
Of course I can. There were a number of 100%PROG bands and solo artists that were released in 70s some classic albums with a really strong impression as you said, and in the same time they were outside Anglo-centric realm, e.g. Santana, Can, Le Orme, Igra Staklenih Perli, to new a few.
However, when an Anglo-centric prog fan is to think about prog in the way that only English symphonic [and related] bands from 70s are prog then 90% material of those bands that were outside of mentioned Anglo-centric realm will not sound as a prog to the ears of an Anglo-centric fan, maybe they will sound to his/her ears "proggy" at best. |
This is a straw man argument and not very good one at that. You are still peddling this unsubstantiated hypothesis and now, since no one has taken your bait, you are inventing answers to justify your unproven opinion.
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What?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 07:42 |
Komandant Shamal wrote:
I believe you but it's not some special revelation that someone would be flattered by amazement as you probably expected, and i will explain you why. If you said that Roger Dean did do CttE front cover with aerosol car paints, it's ok, why not, but If i say that an aibrush was used at this cover of an album by Smak released in 1980.....
:: insert pointless cover image here ::
.....then everybody can see that effectivelly it's the same thing on that kind of covers ie that "big" difference in used technique is invisible on the final product.
:: insert pointless cover image here ::
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Dean wrote:
The Close to the Edge cover was not painted with an airbrush. Roger Dean didn't even own an airbrush at that time, his first airbrushed cover was Yessongs. The CttE inner cover was painted using cans of aerosol car enamel paint (See Views by Roger Dean page 105) - he wasn't happy with the final picture and you don't have to look that closely at it to see that the masking and spraying wasn't that great.
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So, you were saying?...
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What?
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Komandant Shamal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2015
Location: Yugoslavia
Status: Offline
Points: 954
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Posted: May 02 2015 at 07:20 |
Dean wrote:
Komandant Shamal wrote:
brainstormer wrote:
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Close To The Edge is not a piece of airbrushed artwork. There are marked differences between artwork made with an airbrush and one made using cans of aerosol paint, firstly his airbrush art is done in water colour whereas the aerosol can is cellulose car enamel (acrylic aerosols that graffiti artists use are a modern invention) which is why the marbling effect you see in a lot of his early work |
I believe you but it's not some special revelation that someone would be flattered by amazement as you probably expected, and i will explain you why. If you said that Roger Dean did do CttE front cover with aerosol car paints, it's ok, why not, but If i say that an aibrush was used at this cover of an album by Smak released in 1980.....
.....then everybody can see that effectivelly it's the same thing on that kind of covers ie that "big" difference in used technique is invisible on the final product.
Edited by Komandant Shamal - May 02 2015 at 07:22
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a modern classic prog album
