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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Points: 10751 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:55
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

All throughout the day we size up situations and use past experience to make wise choices. There's no time for lengthy judicial procedings, we have common sense. But when an obviously bogus review shows up on the front page we are lost and clueless, time for a lengthy debate and an oblique look at every possible angle, yep, its still bogus.

There is a whole world of difference between looking at an iffy review and accusing an artist of collusion. With the former you have the choice of accepting it, deleting it or asking the reviewer for a revision - with the latter you need hard concrete proof. The one choice you don't have is to accuse the artist without proof.
 

Yes a bogus review is still bogus, but the only person you can hold responsible for it is the person who posted it unless you have documented evidence of a chain of connection between the reviewer and the artist.

Accusing an artist of collusion on an open forum is bad form, this is my 50th million apology on that at this point. Yes we should not do that. But still, it is pretty obvious to me when an artist is up to something, I know it when I see it.

But its not up to me to decide what to do about these guys, thats up to you guys.

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Originally posted by GuyM GuyM wrote:

em·pir·i·cism

[em-pir-uh-siz-uhm]  
–noun
1. undue reliance upon experience, as in medicine; quackery.


Since I'm not a doctor, I was thinking more along the lines of

em·pir·i·cism  
(m-pîr-szm)
n.
1. The view that experience, especially of the senses, is the only source of knowledge.
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Jörgemeister Jörgemeister wrote:

for being a full time artist Guy does seems to have a lot of free time to reading all his reviews, posting in forums and writing PM's.
Just saying. Smile
  1. Who said Guy is a full-time artist?
  2. Surely full time artists have more free time than the rest of us
  3. Oh, btw - It's the Holidays Confused Who's working?
 


  1. He is not? well he seems to be. all those albums, the work with The Tangent, he puts more time into it than some full artists i know.
  2. If they do, they don't seem to like spending it in prog forums.
  3. I am Cry
And i wasn't saying it as a bad thing, I'd surely enjoy, lets say Roine Stolt to come here once in a while and chat a little with the fans.


Edited by Jörgemeister - December 23 2010 at 13:51
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snobb View Drop Down
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Points: 3584 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:42
Originally posted by Jörgemeister Jörgemeister wrote:

for being a full time artist Guy does seems to have a lot of free time to reading all his reviews, posting in forums and writing PM's.Just saying. Smile


He's not. He said he's just semi-pro, having his weekends and nights for his music.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jörgemeister Jörgemeister wrote:

for being a full time artist Guy does seems to have a lot of free time to reading all his reviews, posting in forums and writing PM's.
Just saying. Smile
  1. Who said Guy is a full-time artist?
  2. Surely full time artists have more free time than the rest of us
  3. Oh, btw - It's the Holidays Confused Who's working?
 
What?
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Dean View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:


All throughout the day we size up situations and use past experience to make wise choices. There's no time for lengthy judicial procedings, we have common sense. But when an obviously bogus review shows up on the front page we are lost and clueless, time for a lengthy debate and an oblique look at every possible angle, yep, its still bogus.
There is a whole world of difference between looking at an iffy review and accusing an artist of collusion. With the former you have the choice of accepting it, deleting it or asking the reviewer for a revision - with the latter you need hard concrete proof. The one choice you don't have is to accuse the artist without proof.
 
Yes a bogus review is still bogus, but the only person you can hold responsible for it is the person who posted it unless you have documented evidence of a chain of connection between the reviewer and the artist.
What?
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for being a full time artist Guy does seems to have a lot of free time to reading all his reviews, posting in forums and writing PM's.
Just saying. Smile
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

No, I think phony reviews are very easy to spot. Next time one comes on the front page I will report it. Any artist is going to get attract the occasional weird review, but when an artist is attracting a lot of those kind of reviews its because they have been soliciting reviews through fan clubs, web sites etc.

Gaaah!!!! That's not fact, that's not proof, that's not evidence. If you are going to make statements like that then you have to present substantiated irrefutable proof. Gut-feel and intuition is unacceptable.
Well, I know a web site is not a classroom, but you wouldn't last 5 minutes in a room full of teenagers with that kind of thinking. Cops know it too, when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to.

What's that supposed to mean? You wouldn't last 5 femtoseconds in my lab by guessing and supposing - which is as irrelevant to this as your classroom comment is.


All throughout the day we size up situations and use past experience to make wise choices. There's no time for lengthy judicial procedings, we have common sense. But when an obviously bogus review shows up on the front page we are lost and clueless, time for a lengthy debate and an oblique look at every possible angle, yep, its still bogus.
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Originally posted by GuyM GuyM wrote:

"when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to".


Oh dear...we were doing so well to clear all this up as well

Please get over your gut feelings..it does not help anyone..show me some solid proof and fine, we'll have to deal with it, but I WILL NOT be called deceitful based on your 'faultless inner moral clock'..sorry..it is NOT good enough a reason to do that.

 


Guy, do you see your name mentioned there? I apologised for using your name a long time ago and I moved on, we are having a hypothetical discussion about reviews now. Don't always assume people are talking about you.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

No, I think phony reviews are very easy to spot. Next time one comes on the front page I will report it. Any artist is going to get attract the occasional weird review, but when an artist is attracting a lot of those kind of reviews its because they have been soliciting reviews through fan clubs, web sites etc.

Gaaah!!!! That's not fact, that's not proof, that's not evidence. If you are going to make statements like that then you have to present substantiated irrefutable proof. Gut-feel and intuition is unacceptable.

Well, I know a web site is not a classroom, but you wouldn't last 5 minutes in a room full of teenagers with that kind of thinking. Cops know it too, when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to.
What's that supposed to mean? You wouldn't last 5 femtoseconds in my lab by guessing and supposing - which is as irrelevant to this as your classroom comment is.
What?
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Negoba View Drop Down
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Originally posted by GuyM GuyM wrote:

This is getting us nowhere apart from getting me even more fed up.

There is NO vote rigging campaign running and never has been!!!!!!...if there is then show me some evidence or please all shut up about it now!!!!
Gut feelings, patterns, assumptions, innuendo, insults....all do nothing to help the situation or the site or me (selfishly)
Please let me know if you get anymore odd reviews etc and we'll talk about it, OK?
 
 
I showed you evidence of the pattern before. Just go through your reviews page. It's not that difficult.
 
Does that mean you're doing anything active? No. I actually suspect you're not.
 
But you could have handled this much better.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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snobb View Drop Down
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I am not 30 years in music, as John is, but I am 20+ yrs in international business. So - there are plenty of folks who just work their job, and always some others,who think they are smart enough to play their own game.

Nothing strange, people are all the same, but on musical site speaking about music,this discussion reminds business meeting too much , Possibly it's great, businessmen started to play music, almost summer of love...

Edited by snobb - December 23 2010 at 13:28
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GuyM View Drop Down
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This is getting us nowhere apart from getting me even more fed up.

There is NO vote rigging campaign running and never has been!!!!!!...if there is then show me some evidence or please all shut up about it now!!!!
Gut feelings, patterns, assumptions, innuendo, insults....all do nothing to help the situation or the site or me (selfishly)
Please let me know if you get anymore odd reviews etc and we'll talk about it, OK?
 
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Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

There's a big difference between having suspicions and laying out your case. Despite seeing an obvious pattern and having enough experience to know how that pattern typically happens, you still have to grant each individual reasonable benefit of the doubt before you call them out.
 

I agree, the calling out was uncool on my part.
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"when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to".

Oh dear...we were doing so well to clear all this up as well
Please get over your gut feelings..it does not help anyone..show me some solid proof and fine, we'll have to deal with it, but I WILL NOT be called deceitful based on your 'faultless inner moral clock'..sorry..it is NOT good enough a reason to do that.
 
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Just get Ivan in here, he will do an unbiased legal analysisApprove
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There's a big difference between having suspicions and laying out your case. Despite seeing an obvious pattern and having enough experience to know how that pattern typically happens, you still have to grant each individual reasonable benefit of the doubt before you call them out.
 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Sorry ...no, the "No facts" comment  was NOT about you ...just saying as a general rule in reviews that's all I liek them to be accurate...nothing more
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

No, I think phony reviews are very easy to spot. Next time one comes on the front page I will report it. Any artist is going to get attract the occasional weird review, but when an artist is attracting a lot of those kind of reviews its because they have been soliciting reviews through fan clubs, web sites etc.

Gaaah!!!! That's not fact, that's not proof, that's not evidence. If you are going to make statements like that then you have to present substantiated irrefutable proof. Gut-feel and intuition is unacceptable.

Well, I know a web site is not a classroom, but you wouldn't last 5 minutes in a room full of teenagers with that kind of thinking. Cops know it too, when it doesn't make sense there is a reason, things happen because people want them to.
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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by GuyM GuyM wrote:

Nothing to do with validity or the like ..I just like just accuracy...yes people can get things wrong (like in that finger tapping example) but that is an honest mistake IMO..because of an assumption..but, when I do any writing I try to make sure I verify my facts first. That is all I ask for really...best endeavours and no wild statements.
The whole dis-service and turn off thing statement are very fine words indeed so long as you are not on the receiving end of it I can assure you!!!...you may able to sit by while people call you a liar in public and say not a word but I won't, sorry...I think it is simply unfair to accuse someone with no facts to back it up...it is an injustice and I speak out against it wherever I find it...I try to admit it when I AM wrong

 

If you think i'll shut up just so you'll buy an album of mine, then you are sadly mstaken..I don't need the money that much!

 

That's all folks

G

 
My facts are the weird reviews that show up. Look, I probably shouldn't accuse a site member of anything, so I apologised to you for that. But why don't you likewise not accuse me of not having any facts.

"weird reviews that show up" are not facts John, they are just reviews - making assumptions about those reviews are nothing but supposition and wild guesses. If you don't have tangible things like proof and evidence then you don't have facts.

No, I think phony reviews are very easy to spot. Next time one comes on the front page I will report it. Any artist is going to get attract the occasional weird review, but when an artist is attracting a lot of those kind of reviews its because they have been soliciting reviews through fan clubs, web sites etc.


But that wouldn't break any PA rule John. And not only that, but PA is already well equiped with a system that prevents possible distortion through such proceedings. So instead of watching certain albums pages like this: "Stern Smile", why don't you get the album, review it with your weight 10 times that of our Mexican friend of last evening and bring your worries to relief Wink
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