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Posted: August 20 2012 at 15:28
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
If a musician hasn't heard enough music, then it's their own fault, which is why pop music exists. These "musicians" lack the ability to play their instruments and are more concerned with money.
This is utterly ignorant. For one thing, all progressive rock is pop music. For another, I think you vastly underrate the artistic integrity of just about anybody who writes their own music. Very few pop musicians who write their own music are concerned with money more than their music. Those that don't write and only interpret other people's music for a living... well. that's another thing.
And of course, a lack of ability to play your instruments doesn't necessarily stop you from making good music and technical incompetence is very rare in any kind of music that is actually popular anyway.
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
If a musician hasn't heard enough music, then it's their own fault, which is why pop music exists. These "musicians" lack the ability to play their instruments and are more concerned with money.
This is utterly ignorant. For one thing, all progressive rock is pop music. For another, I think you vastly underrate the artistic integrity of just about anybody who writes their own music. Very few pop musicians who write their own music are concerned with money more than their music. Those that don't write and only interpret other people's music for a living... well. that's another thing.
And of course, a lack of ability to play your instruments doesn't necessarily stop you from making good music and technical incompetence is very rare in any kind of music that is actually popular anyway.
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Posted: August 20 2012 at 12:40
^ I agree that a problem with some prog acts is that, even though we have the internet now, many bands don't get the exposure they deserve, because there are just soooo many bands past and present, and they have to be really doing something special to get some recognition. Older bands from the 70s, or prog acts still active from the 90s/early 2000s are still immensely more popular than any new band formed in the last 8-9 years.
It is possible though. Haken has gotten pretty popular recently, and they only have 2 albums out right now, and formed about 5 years ago.
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Posted: August 20 2012 at 12:31
darkshade wrote:
^ The only thing younger musicians lack is writing abilities. Sure they can play circles around the older guard, but that don't mean a thing if you can't write interesting music. I sometimes sense it is because they feel everything that can be done has already been done; but sometimes these are the same people that just haven't heard enough music to understand what CAN be done with music, and how to do new things with it.
If a musician hasn't heard enough music, then it's their own fault, which is why pop music exists. These "musicians" lack the ability to play their instruments and are more concerned with money. I think there's just too much negativity surrounding the newer generation of prog musicians. A lot of the problems stem from the listener's unwillingness to listen to something on it's own terms and let go of the past. Steven Wilson certainly doesn't have any problems writing music. The Mars Volta don't have any problems either. There are always exceptions in every generation and musicians that stand out above the others because they're doing something different and unique. It might not be Yes, Genesis, or King Crimson, but why get hung up on the past? This is exactly the attitude that is killing music IMHO.
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Posted: August 20 2012 at 12:22
^ The only thing younger musicians lack is writing abilities. Sure they can play circles around the older guard, but that don't mean a thing if you can't write interesting music. I sometimes sense it is because they feel everything that can be done has already been done; but sometimes these are the same people that just haven't heard enough music to understand what CAN be done with music, and how to do new things with it.
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Posted: August 20 2012 at 12:05
freyacat wrote:
I cannot agree that "The newer generation have a much larger palette that they can draw inspiration from."
When the early progressive acts were drawing on Classical, Jazz, and Folk traditions, this was the widest musical palette possible, developed over centuries in the case of Classical, spanning many cultures in the case of folk, and including a variety of styles (rag-time, boogie-woogie, swing, cool, modal, and free) in the case of jazz.
These influences brought such a variety of approches to melody, instrumentation, rhythm, song structure, and sonic texture. To compare these to the difference between metal and alternative rock strains credibility.
The truth is, today's rock musicians largely lack the background of listening and training that enriched the classic-rock heroes they learned from. That's why the music today is less interesting.
Just because Roine Stolt continues along a line of inquiry which began in the late 60's, does not make him less progressive than Steven Wilson. I think that some of his work with the Flower Kings has been the most exciting music going on at the time. They only fall flat when they succumb to the theory that arena-rock guitar cruch equals relevance.
There is a reason my 13-year-old friends understand Porcupine Tree right away. It is not that different from the other music they listen to. It plays by basically the same rules, and has a very narrow range of possible variations that might surprise or confuse the listener.
Today's musicians have access to all of these styles and genres you mention, which only highlights my point. Thanks for only reiterating what I already said. I do think you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about in regards to musicians of today lacking the listening and training that the older generations have had. I think if anything they have had more. Many of prog's musicians today have extensive training and can easily run circles, technically speaking, around the older guys. But let's not make this a who is better argument, that would just be moronic, I just don't agree with your narrow views of the current crop of prog musicians. I'll leave it at that.
Edited by Mirror Image - August 20 2012 at 12:11
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Posted: August 20 2012 at 11:56
I cannot agree that "The newer generation have a much larger palette that they can draw inspiration from."
When the early progressive acts were drawing on Classical, Jazz, and Folk traditions, this was the widest musical palette possible, developed over centuries in the case of Classical, spanning many cultures in the case of folk, and including a variety of styles (rag-time, boogie-woogie, swing, cool, modal, and free) in the case of jazz.
These influences brought such a variety of approches to melody, instrumentation, rhythm, song structure, and sonic texture. To compare these to the difference between metal and alternative rock strains credibility.
The truth is, today's rock musicians largely lack the background of listening and training that enriched the classic-rock heroes they learned from. That's why the music today is less interesting.
Just because Roine Stolt continues along a line of inquiry which began in the late 60's, does not make him less progressive than Steven Wilson. I think that some of his work with the Flower Kings has been the most exciting music going on at the time. They only fall flat when they succumb to the theory that arena-rock guitar cruch equals relevance.
There is a reason my 13-year-old friends understand Porcupine Tree right away. It is not that different from the other music they listen to. It plays by basically the same rules, and has a very narrow range of possible variations that might surprise or confuse the listener.
sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time
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Posted: August 18 2012 at 22:56
cabalaska wrote:
It's rather ironic that SW comments in other interviews about his latest solo album as being greatly influenced by his mixing the King Crimson albums and how he tried to capture that spirit--even by adding saxophone.
How is what he did with this latest album anymore about the future than what other prog bands have done, i.e. the ones he deprecates???
I think he's become a lot more accepting of the term progressive rock lately. We must all keep in mind that this interview that I quoted was done in 2007. I think it's understandable that Wilson was trying to distance himself from the progressive rock tag whereas someone like Stolt really embraces it and has no problem with it. As I said, both PT and TFK aren't really doing anything different. Besides the way their music sounds, both bands incorporate different genres into their music just like the progressive bands of the 70s have done. The main difference is the newer prog bands are incorporating styles that had been developed AFTER progressive rock into their music. The older generation of prog bands were coming from either blues, jazz, or classical backgrounds. The newer generation have a much larger palette that they can draw inspiration from. I see TFK as an extension of what the 70s bands like Genesis and Yes were doing whereas PT are drawing more influences from electronica, Minimalism, metal, and alternative rock. That's the way I look at it anyway.
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Posted: August 18 2012 at 21:43
It's rather ironic that SW comments in other interviews about his latest solo album as being greatly influenced by his mixing the King Crimson albums and how he tried to capture that spirit--even by adding saxophone.
How is what he did with this latest album anymore about the future than what other prog bands have done, i.e. the ones he deprecates???
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Posted: August 16 2012 at 14:29
The Bearded Bard wrote:
richardh wrote:
The thing that annoys me about that later interview is Steven's apparent ignorance of the English indie band Mansun that existed in the nineties (they are in PA). They released some very proggy stuff long before Radiohead withough being the slightest bit derivative of seventies prog (although a bit Beatles pastichey admittedly). Its a bit of a self conscously cool thing to do give credit to Radiohead for a prog revival which perhaps does reinforce the opinion put forward that he is a somewhat insecure person who needs to be seen as 'with it'.
Long before? Didn't Mansun release their debut album, Attack of the Grey Lantern, the same year as Radiohead released their third album, OK Computer?
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Posted: August 16 2012 at 11:39
richardh wrote:
The thing that annoys me about that later interview is Steven's apparent ignorance of the English indie band Mansun that existed in the nineties (they are in PA). They released some very proggy stuff long before Radiohead withough being the slightest bit derivative of seventies prog (although a bit Beatles pastichey admittedly). Its a bit of a self conscously cool thing to do give credit to Radiohead for a prog revival which perhaps does reinforce the opinion put forward that he is a somewhat insecure person who needs to be seen as 'with it'.
Long before? Didn't Mansun release their debut album, Attack of the Grey Lantern, the same year as Radiohead released their third album, OK Computer?
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Posted: August 15 2012 at 14:20
Mirror Image wrote:
So I've been doing a lot of thinking about Steven Wilson and have come to conclusion that regardless of what he said and how much I disagree with it, he is a great musician and songwriter. I plan on giving his music more a chance to grow on me. I ordered Fear Of A Blank Planet tonight after watching this:
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Posted: August 15 2012 at 11:12
napoca wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
So I've been doing a lot of thinking about Steven Wilson and have come to conclusion that regardless of what he said and how much I disagree with it, he is a great musician and songwriter. I plan on giving his music more a chance to grow on me. I ordered Fear Of A Blank Planet tonight after watching this:
I don't like too much the first two songs from the album, but I think Anestethize is one of his best song he ever wrote. Enjoy it.
Yes, Anesthetize is just superb. I love all the moods and emotions it goes through in the span of just 12 minutes.
Edited by Mirror Image - August 15 2012 at 11:13
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Posted: August 15 2012 at 10:48
Mirror Image wrote:
So I've been doing a lot of thinking about Steven Wilson and have come to conclusion that regardless of what he said and how much I disagree with it, he is a great musician and songwriter. I plan on giving his music more a chance to grow on me. I ordered Fear Of A Blank Planet tonight after watching this:
I don't like too much the first two songs from the album, but I think Anestethize is one of his best song he ever wrote. Enjoy it.
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Posted: August 15 2012 at 01:14
So I've been doing a lot of thinking about Steven Wilson and have come to conclusion that regardless of what he said and how much I disagree with it, he is a great musician and songwriter. I plan on giving his music more a chance to grow on me. I ordered Fear Of A Blank Planet tonight after watching this:
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
Time Flies would have been a more obvious example for me
This is from his UPCOMING NEW SOLO ALBUM, what makes me wonder of he really changed his mind.
sounds interesting to me (I will definetly be getting it anyway). I suspect that his 'attitude' may have softened a bit on the retro prog thing but just in case it hasn't I think we should carry on branding him a raving ego maniac until he makes a grovelling apology to Roine
That interview with Wilson was from years ago, though. I think his stance on progressive rock may have softened since then. SW didn't used to like being called 'prog'. I think he's embraced the label now. Certainly, a lot of the material on Grace for Drowning sounded like 70s prog (Crimson, Tull, etc). Luminol definitely has that Yes kind of feel. I am interested, I have the new blu ray on pre-order
Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
Time Flies would have been a more obvious example for me
This is from his UPCOMING NEW SOLO ALBUM, what makes me wonder of he really changed his mind.
sounds interesting to me (I will definetly be getting it anyway). I suspect that his 'attitude' may have softened a bit on the retro prog thing but just in case it hasn't I think we should carry on branding him a raving ego maniac until he makes a grovelling apology to Roine
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Steven Wilson Vs. Roine Stolt
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HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
I do think you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about in regards to musicians of today lacking the listening and training that the older generations have had. I think if anything they have had more. Many of prog's musicians today have extensive training and can easily run circles, technically speaking, around the older guys. But let's not make this a who is better argument, that would just be moronic, I just don't agree with your narrow views of the current crop of prog musicians. I'll leave it at that.
