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FunkyM 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 12 2010
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 Posted: January 20 2013 at 21:55 |
 awaken77 wrote:
I consider "neo-prog" only original bands from beginning of 80-thies (Marillion, Pendragon, IQ, etc) |
That's what I mainly think of when I hear the term "neo-prog" too, although I would be willing to accept bands from later than the 1980s that make music in a similar style as also being neo-prog. (Unless we want to call them Neo-neo-prog.)  In regards to what Martin Orford wrote, I just don't see what the problem is with prog music fans using the label "neo-prog". If I understand the term correctly, "neo" stands for "new" and "prog" stands for progressive rock. I guess I'm missing something here, but that seems to be almost exactly what he wants his music to be categorized under. According to his article his main beef seems to be that a number of people have a low opinion of the neo-prog style in general, which leads him to believe that "neo-prog" is a derisive term. But wouldn't people who treat "neo-prog" with derision do so whether the music was called neo-prog or the "New Wave of Progressive
Rock"?
Edited by FunkyM - January 20 2013 at 21:56
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:26 |
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Sigh! I always thought the similarities between the two were in the following sections:
IQ's `First of the Last' sounds somewhat similar to `Lover's Leap', especially those guitars that start at about 2:35.
Parts of `The Wrong Host' sound like sections of `The Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man'
The section of `Mortal Procession' that starts at 17:50 sounds just like `Gods of Magog' parts of `Apocalypse in 9/8'
The outro organ/guitar solo of `Ghosts of Days' sounds rather similar to the final moments of `As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs'.
I'm sure there are others who've picked up other little similarities that I've missed?
Anyway, I really hadn't want to this drag on, but I sure wasn't making some lone solitary statement, it's been mentioned regularly on the Forums here and there by numerous posters.
But I truly LOVE `Harvest of Souls', as I do the whole album! Loved it since the day I bought so many year ago, so certainly not trying to dis-credit it. The section of `Harvest' called `Nocturne' is truly beautiful and filled with great lyrics and a touching vocal from Nicholls!
Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - January 20 2013 at 17:45
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:11 |
Oh right - more carbon copies.
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What?
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:09 |
Dean wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Dean wrote:
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know, |
If that was aimed at me - of course IQ and Marillion were influenced by Genesis and the 70s bands. It was those bands thst inspired them.
But too many people claim that Grendel is a "copy" of Supper's Ready, which it isn't.
And noone seems to level the same accusations at Anglagard or Wobbler, whose influences are even more blatant. |
If it is so that a band can be influenced/inspired by another band then a song by a band can influence/inspire a song by another band.
No one has claimed that either song is a copy of Supper's Ready. |
Oh no?
Sean Trane "So much had been said for so many years about Grendel as a masterpiece and was cruelly deceived when I found this poorman's Supper by You-know-who".
South Side of the Sky "The collection opens with the 17 plus minute Grendel which is a Genesis' Supper's Ready-clone if there ever was one"
Both taken from reviews of B'Sides Themselves.
I rest my case.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:02 |
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Have to say, I don't think IQ/Orford/Nicholls helped their case by essentially REMAKING `Suppers Ready' on `Dark Matter', as much as I dearly love that album!  |
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Fair enough - he did say that it was a carbon copy.
Got a similar quote for Grendel yet? |
Haven't checked.
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Dean
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 17:02 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Have to say, I don't think IQ/Orford/Nicholls helped their case by essentially REMAKING `Suppers Ready' on `Dark Matter', as much as I dearly love that album! |
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Fair enough - he did say that it was a carbon copy.
Got a similar quote for Grendel yet?
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What?
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:57 |
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Have to say, I don't think IQ/Orford/Nicholls helped their case by essentially REMAKING `Suppers Ready' on `Dark Matter', as much as I dearly love that album! |
richardh wrote:
The connection between Harvest Of Souls and Suppers Ready is very obvious
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Edited by Snow Dog - January 20 2013 at 17:01
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Dean
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:55 |
Hercules wrote:
Dean wrote:
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know, |
If that was aimed at me - of course IQ and Marillion were influenced by Genesis and the 70s bands. It was those bands thst inspired them.
But too many people claim that Grendel is a "copy" of Supper's Ready, which it isn't.
And noone seems to level the same accusations at Anglagard or Wobbler, whose influences are even more blatant. |
If it is so that a band can be influenced/inspired by another band then a song by a band can influence/inspire a song by another band.
No one has claimed that either song is a copy of Supper's Ready.
Edited by Dean - January 20 2013 at 16:55
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What?
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Snow Dog
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:44 |
Hercules wrote:
Dean wrote:
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know, |
If that was aimed at me - of course IQ and Marillion were influenced by Genesis and the 70s bands. It was those bands thst inspired them.
But too many people claim that Grendel is a "copy" of Supper's Ready, which it isn't.
And noone seems to level the same accusations at Anglagard or Wobbler, whose influences are even more blatant. |
I played Harvest of Souls again and still do not hear it. Something is wrong with me possibly. Maybe you can only hear it properly on LP with a tube amp.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
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Points: 7024
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:34 |
Dean wrote:
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know, |
If that was aimed at me - of course IQ and Marillion were influenced by Genesis and the 70s bands. It was those bands thst inspired them.
But too many people claim that Grendel is a "copy" of Supper's Ready, which it isn't.
And noone seems to level the same accusations at Anglagard or Wobbler, whose influences are even more blatant.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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awaken77
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 374
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 10:25 |
Hercules wrote:
rdtprog wrote:
The closer a band came to make a Supper's Ready copy is Marillion with "Grendel"
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Grendel is NOT like Supper's Ready. Not at all.
The mood, the structure, the lyrics are as different as they could be. OK, there a passage in 9/8 and they're roughly the same length - that's the similarity and nothing else. |
Agree on that. One more journalist's cliche. I read review on Marillion 1st, ans author claimed that Grendel is a Supper's ready rip-off. It seems like that he never listened both :-(
The only similarity b/w Marillion'83 and Genesis is a vocalist, particularly voice timbre. Arrangement and songwriting is different.
Edited by awaken77 - January 20 2013 at 10:29
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Slaughternalia
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 10:08 |
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It's a label that describes a group of bands with reasonable accuracy, and it's here to stay, whether the artists like it or not. Philip Glass claims not to be a minimalist composer, but it doesn't change the fact that he clearly is one. And how many math rock bands actually label themselves as such?
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I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 07:20 |
lazland wrote:
Following on from this, then, is it not the case that teams should be a little bit more open to variations from their strict interpretation of the various styles, and also react positively to positive and open suggestions and criticisms when there are disagreements about additions? I would rather this than being shouted at and told to mind my own bloody business, as has happened on more than a few occasions. As I said in the other thread, the sub-genres form an important resource of the site as a whole, not individual empires.
This, btw, also, IMO, supports my view that artists should be added to the site where we agree it/they are prog, and argue about the semantics of styles afterwards. |
Nail meet hammer.
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octopus-4
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Joined: October 31 2006
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:42 |
To stay off-topis, can we suggest Vangelis for Xover? And now 
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
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Points: 13872
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:08 |
Dean wrote:
Having a few artists in "the wrong category" doesn't do any harm, it just reflects the diversity of opinion on the various styles of music that we regard as being Progressive Rock, few artists adopt one single style of music and stick to it throughout their musical career. Even a band like Status Quo, who many regard as a one-trick pony, ventured beyond 12-bar blues and so it is with most (if not all) Prog bands.
The aim should be the best fit, not the exact fit and often close enough is good enough. |
And that is a perfectly reasonable, sensible, and pragmatic statement, and I would not argue with a single word.
Following on from this, then, is it not the case that teams should be a little bit more open to variations from their strict interpretation of the various styles, and also react positively to positive and open suggestions and criticisms when there are disagreements about additions? I would rather this than being shouted at and told to mind my own bloody business, as has happened on more than a few occasions. As I said in the other thread, the sub-genres form an important resource of the site as a whole, not individual empires.
This, btw, also, IMO, supports my view that artists should be added to the site where we agree it/they are prog, and argue about the semantics of styles afterwards.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 04:15 |
Having a few artists in "the wrong category" doesn't do any harm, it just reflects the diversity of opinion on the various styles of music that we regard as being Progressive Rock, few artists adopt one single style of music and stick to it throughout their musical career. Even a band like Status Quo, who many regard as a one-trick pony, ventured beyond 12-bar blues and so it is with most (if not all) Prog bands.
The aim should be the best fit, not the exact fit and often close enough is good enough.
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What?
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 30235
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 03:17 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Me, I'd either drop it or move others into it. Flower Kings and Spock's Beard come to mind. Two Bands which never took off with me. I like some Marillion. Go figure. 
On a side note, what the hell are Vangelis and Synergy still doing in prog-related?
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apparently Vangelis was included the electronic prog sub genre at first but then was removed. Some people don't realise that Vangelis had a solo career before he started using synths in 1975. If you take his music only for the period 1975 onwards then he is electronic prog but when you factor in the earlier albums (Earth , Hypothesis, The Dragon etc) its trickier.
All completely off topic of course. 
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rdtprog
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:50 |
Hercules wrote:
rdtprog wrote:
The closer a band came to make a Supper's Ready copy is Marillion with "Grendel"
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Grendel is NOT like Supper's Ready. Not at all.
The mood, the structure, the lyrics are as different as they could be. OK, there a passage in 9/8 and they're roughly the same length - that's the similarity and nothing else. |
At least you admit that i am right for about 3 minutes at the end of that song!
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran
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Dean
Special Collaborator
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:43 |
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When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know,
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What?
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:42 |
rdtprog wrote:
The closer a band came to make a Supper's Ready copy is Marillion with "Grendel"
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Grendel is NOT like Supper's Ready. Not at all.
The mood, the structure, the lyrics are as different as they could be. OK, there a passage in 9/8 and they're roughly the same length - that's the similarity and nothing else.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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stop the "Neo" prog label ?
