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Manuel
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Topic: Does Form Still Follow Function? Technology & Art Posted: January 07 2015 at 09:58 |
The way I see it, both complement each other. How can there be technology without the inspiration to create something (in this case art/music)? And how can art/music progress without technology? The real origin of both is human inspiration, creativity and skills, and both art/music and technology help things happen.
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SteveG
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Posted: January 07 2015 at 09:17 |
^Thanks for the link and the excellent quote, Gerard. That says it all.
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Gerinski
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 18:23 |
"Oxygène and Zoolook are two very different albums on the sonic map, because as we know, it’s the tool that defines the style and not the other way around."
Jean Michele Jarre, 2012, talking on how the synth models he used defined the music he created (i.e. the string ensembles defined what Oxygene was like and the Fairlight defined what Zoolook was like).
Music follows the technology available at its time.
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presdoug
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:53 |
SteveG wrote:
presdoug wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
I read the other day that piano sales are at an all time low. Technology has trumped form and function: Rather sad, in a sense. Sort of like the demise of door-to-door Encyclopedia Britannica salesmen. | That resonates with me, personally. My late father sold Encyclopedia Britannica door-to-door in the 1950s for a while. |
Wow, PD. At first I thought you were going to say that you're father played grand piano with an orchestra or something. I didn't see the Encyclopedias coming, which my father also sold door to door once. |
Cool. My Dad eventually became an English Literature teacher (High school level)
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SteveG
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:48 |
presdoug wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
I read the other day that piano sales are at an all time low. Technology has trumped form and function: Rather sad, in a sense. Sort of like the demise of door-to-door Encyclopedia Britannica salesmen. | That resonates with me, personally. My late father sold Encyclopedia Britannica door-to-door in the 1950s for a while. |
Wow, PD. At first I thought you were going to say that you're father played grand piano with an orchestra or something. I didn't see the Encyclopedias coming, which my father also sold door to door once.
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SteveG
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:46 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^Yes. I regret buying that Casio in the early nineties!  |
Well, as a curmudgeonly old fart, I think there is something to be said about hearing a Steinway being played, as opposed to a Roland merely digitally mimicking the sound. Of course, I read things called books (yes, those rectangular items with paper pages and a cover) rather than Kindles or what-have-you, so I'm practically astoneaged when it comes to technological advances. |
No argument here. I still read books by candlelight. Just kidding, but I still dig books instead of tablets.
Edited by SteveG - January 06 2015 at 16:47
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presdoug
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:44 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
I read the other day that piano sales are at an all time low. Technology has trumped form and function: Rather sad, in a sense. Sort of like the demise of door-to-door Encyclopedia Britannica salesmen. |
That resonates with me, personally. My late father sold Encyclopedia Britannica door-to-door in the 1950s for a while.
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:27 |
SteveG wrote:
^Yes. I regret buying that Casio in the early nineties!  |
Well, as a curmudgeonly old fart, I think there is something to be said about hearing a Steinway being played, as opposed to a Roland merely digitally mimicking the sound. Of course, I read things called books (yes, those rectangular items with paper pages and a cover) rather than Kindles or what-have-you, so I'm practically astoneaged when it comes to technological advances.
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SteveG
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:18 |
^Yes. I regret buying that Casio in the early nineties!
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:16 |
I read the other day that piano sales are at an all time low. Technology has trumped form and function: Rather sad, in a sense. Sort of like the demise of door-to-door Encyclopedia Britannica salesmen.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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SteveG
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:09 |
^Yes, Rick. Da Vinci does appear as appear as one who fully integrated both fields equally. Great point.
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Rick Robson
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 16:04 |
SteveG, I believe that it's important to have in mind that the technology in music wouldn't have evolved without the composers often writing visionary "music of the future" (kind of composing very much with contemporary instruments in mind.) This happened for instance with the piano, as I read in Wiki it has evolved technologically more than any other musical instrument, such in a way that it caused quite a few changes in the playing style of a performer when he attempts to render on a modern piano works written for earlier ones. But anyway I agree that the engineering aspect of creation must have come first, Da Vinci came to mind as an expert in both fields (engineering and arquitecture.)
Edited by Rick Robson - January 06 2015 at 16:04
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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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SteveG
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 11:55 |
^Good point but I believe that humans or, more correctly proto humans, may have used tools before they could speak, so tech still seems to come first.
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King Only
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 11:48 |
SteveG wrote:
It was only my point to emphasize the importance of technology in art and that it may have even proceeded it. But yes, they are intertwined to me. |
I'm sure that the very first music made by humans would have been vocal, so I don't think you can say that technology proceeded music. But in terms of modern music, of course technology is essential.
Probably the very first art was just people using their fingers to draw in mud and sand. No tools required.
And literature was originally just spoken stories, passed on from person to person orally. There are cultures that had no written languages but they still had a rich tradition of storytelling but they didn't have books or pens or paper etc.
Edited by King Only - January 06 2015 at 11:48
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SteveG
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 11:33 |
^Yes, Luca. It was only my point to emphasize the importance of technology in art and that it may have even proceeded it. But yes, they are intertwined to me.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 11:30 |
Wasn't creating the first flute from a bone a form of technology? I don't think we can draw a separation line. Wood? electricity? electronics? computers? You need a lot of technology to create and build a church organ, isn't it?
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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SteveG
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 11:26 |
HolyMoly wrote:
"Technology" is really just another word for anything that is created
for a functional purpose (edit: a similar, yet distinct point from that being made by King Only above - whose post I did not see until after my orig post) - like the stick you mentioned drawing a line
in the sand, that was one of the first "tools" ever conceived by our
species. So really, practically anything can be described as
technology, and with that view, then of course music making cannot
precede it. But that's not a particularly useful piece of information
by itself.
Maybe the question, then, is whether one could
CONCEIVE of music (i.e. the cognitive "dreaming up" of music) without
necessarily having the tools (yet) to play it. Let's say I sat down and
tried to dream up a piece of music using timbres and tones that have
NEVER been used before - because no instrument yet exists that can make
those exact sounds. Would I be able to do it? Of course I would,
because I'm a genius. But seriously, could I? I'm going to fix a tall
glass of water and ponder this for a bit.
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Good point Steve, but I have the feeling, and it's only a feeling, that tones and pitch and the like were discovered by accident and not thought of in advance. There's no proof to this but it seems sensible to me.
This is a response to Sleeper's assertion regarding symbiotic relationships too. Your hammering a piece of steel and one day it produces a note and then a symbiotic relationship could follow.
Edited by SteveG - January 06 2015 at 11:28
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HolyMoly
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 11:25 |
sleeper wrote:
I see the two as symbiotic, the desire to create and advance art has resulted in new technology to create new sounds and the desire to advance the technology to do things better has opened the door to an ever more diverse aray of art. For millenia the two have been feeding off each other and will likely continue to do so.
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I think this is the answer I was trying to come up with in my own post. Bravo.
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It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
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sleeper
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 11:23 |
I see the two as symbiotic, the desire to create and advance art has resulted in new technology to create new sounds and the desire to advance the technology to do things better has opened the door to an ever more diverse aray of art. For millenia the two have been feeding off each other and will likely continue to do so.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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SteveG
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Posted: January 06 2015 at 11:23 |
^I agree that the use of technical means is inherent in Man. But again, I stress that that use superseded the Man's interest in art. It was first used for the preservation of life and the formation of weapons for defense.
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