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Artists considered prog on here but not elsewhere |
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Gordy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Folk/Eclectic/PSIKE/Metal/Post/Math Team Joined: January 25 2007 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 4597 |
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Bunkur, a Dutch drone/doom metal band from Tilburg, are a perfect example:
Edited by Gordy - August 09 2021 at 22:15 |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18638 |
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Hi, Well, not sure about the bills, but it certainly helped add up the money in the coffers! Taunting is, for me, tough ... me taunting DE because of Ian and JT is the same as he taunting me about AD2. It gets nowhere in 3 seconds flat before you type anything. And tomorrow another innocent fan adds another log to the fire that is still smoldering some, and it flares up all over again! I do not dislike RUSH, however, when compared to the early "progressive" work and its time, place, and meaning, the band RUSH is not as valuable and important as many of the others. THAT is not to say they are not good and did not create good things ... they were excellent, and created many things that are remembered and still appreciated! Although I still say that they did not exactly stand up to the prime examples of progressive music, though their work deserves, at least, a prog-related something or other. The tough issue is that this is all done by ALBUM and this needs to be changed to ARTIST so that we at the very least appreciate the artist's work in their ENTIRETY instead of just one song from one album! This would help define a lot of PROGRESSIVE music a lot better and take away the middling examples that don't make sense ... like calling a band "symphonic" simply because they have keyboards, and heck, even Pink Floyd is symphonic, so is Banco, and AD2 and Can or the Grateful Dead! But that designation has simply shown how little folks that "created it" don't know music history to create something that the music is not! And the band's next album is not either! I think the re-definition, with music history in mind, makes a lot better sense and it would put PROGRESSIVE MUSIC in the MAP, instead of it being relegated to a bunch of folks that don't know music (geeks?) who are simply making it "known" that they dislike the classical music iron clad definitions that always hate new music! AND, of course, electric music has been hell on most orchestral anything, up to and including a synthesizer replacing whole parts of the orchestra, which makes it even worse for academia ... they know they are doomed, but 500 years of music history is not going down the tubes as fast as we think, and we need to wake up to that ... that some geeks think they know music better and call something "symphonic" when it has keyboards and they don't even know what the terms mean, specially when the album has 8 or 10 songs at about 4 minutes each ... so much for a "symphonic" idea, which was reserved for pieces that were much longer and better defined within music, which many geeks refuse to accept and work with! Changes, are always, it seems, very unpopular. However, the changes that WORK and make sense, usually end up surviving the whole thing and make all of it stronger. I'm not sure that PA is doing that well, and tomorrow another website that does not like PA will create a new name for something or other within Progressive, and fans decide that it makes better sense than so much non-sense at PA. Those things happen in life, and you only have to look at your daughters and sons to see it, and shake your head ... it's their life and you can not change it! I'm not sure it matters that one site has it and another doesn't. What matters is how each side arranges and defines their database and information. I think PA has undergone too many changes and too many people that had different ideas and tomorrow this band will be accepted as pre-post-alt-prog ... and here we go again, defining a piece of music that does not say anything about the actual music ... it might define a specific time and place, but you still don't know anything about its music!
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15453 |
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^ and they do seem to take the bait!
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cstack3 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7527 |
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LOL!! No, bands mix up their genres all the time....Yes' "90125" was not the groundbreaking innovation of CTTE, but it paid the bills. I just like to taunt Rush fans since they have such an extreme defense reaction, like ants when the ant hill is attacked! |
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15453 |
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^ why is it so hard to recognize non-prog bands as having prog albums? They are here for those albums and for no other reason. Can anybody really claim that albums like HEMISPHERES, A FAREWELL TO KINGS and 2112 aren't prog?
Me no thinks so |
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cstack3 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7527 |
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From Wikipedia: Rush was a Canadian rock band formed in Toronto in 1968, consisting of Geddy Lee (bass, vocals, keyboards, composer), Alex Lifeson (guitars, composer), and Neil Peart (drums, percussion, lyricist). After its formation in 1968, the band went through several configurations before arriving at its classic power trio lineup with the addition of Peart in 1974, who replaced original drummer John Rutsey right after the release of their eponymous debut album, which contained their first radio hit, "Working Man". Rush is known for its musicianship, complex compositions, and eclectic lyrical motifs drawing heavily on science fiction, fantasy and philosophy. The band's style changed over the years, from a blues-inspired hard rock beginning, later moving into progressive rock, then a period marked by heavy use of synthesizers, before returning to guitar-driven hard rock since the end of the 1980s. (this doesn't meet my definition of a prog-rock band).
Edited by cstack3 - June 29 2021 at 15:38 |
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Argo2112 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 20 2017 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 4462 |
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Geez, Not this again! Go to your room!
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18638 |
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Hi, I suppose that all the freedom that FC makes use of in the early days with Thompson going silly on the guitar, and the the violin doing the same thing, that kinda makes it "prog-related", however, it should ultimately be changed and completely updated to something or other since "Prog Folk" would not, generally, have improvisation and long winded solos! I supposed that it was just about the little songs and well known limericks and lyrics. This kinda reminds me of the early days Bob Dylan, when he picked up an electric guitar and every one thought he was being stupid and just another hacker out there. It did not "change" who he was, and it added a lot more to his work in the end. But the folks that hated something electric in "Folk Music" were the first ones to leave the bus and never hear or appreciate the music and where it was headed as time went by, with or without Bob! The Folk Clubs here in Portland (two here I think I have seen), do not do "acoustic" folk music anymore, just to give you an idea, meaning that the so called "Prog Folk" is based on an acoustic idea that is not exemplary of the history of Folk music at all. Thus, this designation needs to be cleaned up and likely removed, although there are many acoustic folks out there that could use that designation, but I bet that less folks listen to it, than anything else! Times change ... and the idea of "Prog Folk" is long gone. PA just has to do some small adjusting to the designations to ensure they "fit" a reasonable and decent description of what the music is all about ... and today, the idea of "Prog Folk" probably gets more laughs and jokes than metal surgery on your w**ker!
Edited by moshkito - June 29 2021 at 10:17 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Progishness ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2020 Location: Planet Rhubarb Status: Offline Points: 2565 |
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Oh behave!
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"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2 |
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cstack3 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7527 |
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...errr....Rush?
(Sorry, I could not contain myself!)
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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kenethlevine ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 9179 |
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well said Mike!
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15453 |
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The imperfections of a democratic system! OK, the site isn't perfect but really... who cares if Tori Amos is here or not. The overall usefulness of this site is 95% kickass! Unfortunately we live in a dimension / universe / whatever that doesn't allow 100% perfection. I signed the petition to appeal that decision but haven't yet gotten an answer. Obli-di Obli-da
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10740 |
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For some of the more questioned artists that have been mentioned, their addition often has less to do with their music, but has more to do with some site members who have been on the site a long time and have done a lot of work on the site know how to work the system and know how to get artists on here.
I used to be one of those people before I retired from working on the site. There used to be several others who do not come around much anymore. |
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15453 |
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Not missing your point. Just adding to your point that many consider revolutionary artists prog when they're not. BandCamp is the worst. A little bit of experimental touches and they add the prog tag. Ugh.
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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13383 |
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I don't mind Enya at all. Actually have her first 2 albums, which are quite distinctive. And "May It Be" and "Aniron" from The Lord of the Rings are beautiful. And no, she's not prog. I still would like someone to explain how Clannad is "Prog Folk" while Fairport Convention is only "Prog-Related". Fairport was far more progressive and influential in Brit folk -- it is laughable. I repeat, laughable.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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kenethlevine ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog-Folk Team Joined: December 06 2006 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 9179 |
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not to blow my own horn here but at least one of my google searches involving Clannad and prog justified their discussion based on Clannad being in PA
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Shadowyzard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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For my part, neither. I just backed up Mike's point. I hadn't followed the whole discussion, either. Sorry if I sounded like I was trying to falsify your "point". |
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nick_h_nz ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6742 |
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That’s ridiculous, and you know it. Apart from the fact that Enya was barely in Clannad at all (two albums), being a member of a band doesn’t make something prog or not prog. 🙄 [EDIT] Much to the horror of some here, I’m sure, I don’t mind Enya either. I’m not a fan of Clannad at all, but I quite like quite a few Enya songs. So to ultra simplify things, I don’t really like Clannad, but I’m aware they are considered prog outside PA, and I can understand why (regardless of whether I agree with that, or like the band); and I do like quite a bit of Enya, but have never thought of her as prog, and it would seem neither has anyone else. Edited by nick_h_nz - June 28 2021 at 11:01 |
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nick_h_nz ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6742 |
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Enya prog? I have never seen that, but it’s possible, I guess? Enya and Clannad are not really the same thing. But, as I say, I have never seen Enya recognised as being prog. Clannad, on the other hand, regardless of whether you have seen it or not, have been recognised as prog in a surprising number of places. I say surprising, because I was googling their name with various prog sites I am aware of - and only one of them came up with no results. But it would appear that there are even more prog blogs, mags and websites that consider Clannad to be prog than I thought. I guess I never noticed, even though I follow those sites, etc. because I tend to gloss over and skip past any articles/reviews about bands and artists that don’t interest me. But Enya? I’ll Google, but I’m not expecting to see her name associated with prog at all. 🤔 [EDIT] Ok, I have googled, and not one of the prog blogs, mags or websites that recognise Clannad as prog, call Enya prog. And the two prog radio stations that I was able to find have played Clannad from show setlists, have never (that I could see in the Google results) played Enya. So I think it’s safe to say that there is no danger that Enya will ever enter PA. 😜 Edited by nick_h_nz - June 28 2021 at 10:53 |
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