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Pictures or Ricochet
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Poll Question: Your favorite?
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22 [46.81%]
5 [10.64%]
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Jared View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 27 2025 at 10:54
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:


In terms of choosing a favorite live album containing all new material, for me it's easy peasy. That'll be Piktors Verwandlungen by Anyone's Daughter.

Some passages of the music are beautiful, but I really wish the words had been sung rather than narrated?
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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The only Tangerine Dream album I can willingly listen to for more than 10 seconds, without being bored to tears, is Force Majure (1979). While ELP's Pictures at an Exhibition is the "lesser poop" of the two, I'm gonna vote None, just because it is an option. :D

In terms of choosing a favorite live album containing all new material, for me it's easy peasy. That'll be Piktors Verwandlungen by Anyone's Daughter.

Edited by Hrychu - January 27 2025 at 03:09
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Pictures quite easily; you can tell the atmosphere generated by those Geordies adds to the performance.   I also remember what Danny Baker wrote about 'The Old Castle' in particular.  ELP were very much a live band and this argument holds even up to the Works tour.  Fantastic album. 
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Pictures. What I have heard from Tangerine Dream just hasn't clicked with me... too much atmosphere without enough melody. I prefer something more melodic like Jean Michel Jarre's Oxygene and Equinoxe albums.


Tangram? That is chock full of beautiful melodies. That and the slightly underrated Underwater Sunlight also spring to mind.


I checked out some albums on Spotify. And did buy one (don't remember if it's Ricochet or Phaedra. I don't remember if I checked out Tangran, but I will do so now, thanks.
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Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Pictures. What I have heard from Tangerine Dream just hasn't clicked with me... too much atmosphere without enough melody. I prefer something more melodic like Jean Michel Jarre's Oxygene and Equinoxe albums.

Tangram? That is chock full of beautiful melodies. That and the slightly underrated Underwater Sunlight also spring to mind.
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

People that is good with facts say that this is the concert where most of the material for Ricochet was taken from:



That's the show, but less than twenty minutes from the concert proper were used for "Part Two": Edgar Froese's piano improvisation at the very beginning and a new bridge connect the two live segments (which were remixed for the album, so they don't sound as heard in concert, anyway).

"Part One" is essentially a montage based on parts they liked when they reviewed their many hours of improv from the tour (UK, Fall of '75). The Mellotron parts, Edgar's guitar, Chris's drumming, etc., were all (re)recorded in Virgin's studio, The Manor, where they recorded Phaedra and Rubycon.

Edited by verslibre - January 20 2025 at 14:21
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Pictures. What I have heard from Tangerine Dream just hasn't clicked with me... too much atmosphere without enough melody. I prefer something more melodic like Jean Michel Jarre's Oxygene and Equinoxe albums.
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Heart of the Matter View Drop Down
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People that is good with facts say that this is the concert where most of the material for Ricochet was taken from:
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Pictures by a mile - one of the albums that would always be on my desert island list.
"Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour
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Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

^^ not a Toscanini fan... he conducted practically everything at the pace of a race horse.
But with a precision, drive and clarity unmatched by any conductor then or since....

I really can't agree with that at all... there have literally been forty, fifty, sixty premier league conductors who have subsequently interpreted the music with far more satisfying results than AT, who was very much a man of his time.  
Nothing could be further from the truth; we will have to agree to disagree on this matter.

we will... all I can say is that if you went into pretty well any classical music forum and expressed that view, you'd be met with polite disbelief and a feeling that you actually knew very little about CM interpretation.
I'm sorry, but I find your tone gravitating towards being insulting towards me. Let's just say we disagree and leave it at that, please.
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Jared View Drop Down
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Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

^^ not a Toscanini fan... he conducted practically everything at the pace of a race horse.
But with a precision, drive and clarity unmatched by any conductor then or since....

I really can't agree with that at all... there have literally been forty, fifty, sixty premier league conductors who have subsequently interpreted the music with far more satisfying results than AT, who was very much a man of his time.  
Nothing could be further from the truth; we will have to agree to disagree on this matter.

we will... all I can say is that if you went into pretty well any classical music forum and expressed that view, you'd be met with polite disbelief and a feeling that you actually knew very little about CM interpretation.
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

^^ not a Toscanini fan... he conducted practically everything at the pace of a race horse.
But with a precision, drive and clarity unmatched by any conductor then or since....

I really can't agree with that at all... there have literally been forty, fifty, sixty premier league conductors who have subsequently interpreted the music with far more satisfying results than AT, who was very much a man of his time.  
Nothing could be further from the truth; we will have to agree to disagree on this matter.
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Jared View Drop Down
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Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

^^ not a Toscanini fan... he conducted practically everything at the pace of a race horse.
But with a precision, drive and clarity unmatched by any conductor then or since....

I really can't agree with that at all... there have literally been forty, fifty, sixty premier league conductors who have subsequently interpreted the music with far more satisfying results than AT, who was very much a man of his time.  
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Points: 8821 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2025 at 07:31
Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

^^ not a Toscanini fan... he conducted practically everything at the pace of a race horse.
But with a precision, drive and clarity unmatched by any conductor then or since....
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Jared View Drop Down
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^^ not a Toscanini fan... he conducted practically everything at the pace of a race horse.
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Pictures At An Exhibtion was originally about ELP playing at the Isle Of Wight festival in 1970 but before their debut album came out. They had to cobble something together at short notice and so of course took on Mussorgsky's popular classical work (although actually made famous when Ravel added orchestration as it was originally a series of solo piano pieces).

'Pictures' was one of the Classical releases I owned in my early 20's. I initially bought and subsequently returned to was the Brendel and Previn disk, where the Piano version is followed by Ravel's orchestration. Because I knew the classical version years before I heard ELP's truncated encore, my view of the latter has always been coloured, unfavourably by the former. I don't believe even ELP believed their version to be on a par with a studio album, as it was initially their intention to release a double album, with this as the 'second' record. In the end, they released it as a stand alone, but at mid-price. It's great fun, but really can't be compared to Ricochet...



Nice! I have a CD with Leonard Bernstein conducting. I haven't dug it out for years.

Apparently there are some 40+ different orchestrated versions inc one by Sir Henry Wood who founded 'The Proms'. Generally it's the Ravel version that is the standard.

I also love Tomita's version ( and for me it's better than ELP's version). Keith Emerson was also a bit of a fan of Tomita's version on the quiet and 'nicked' some of it for ELP's 1974 and later versions I think.

BTW I do enjoy ELP's version from Mar Y Sol (A festival held in Puerto Rico in 1972). It is the shorter version but Keith's Hammond spits and crackles very pleasingly!
What I feel is the best recording of Pictures At An Exhibition; the NBC Orchestra conducted by the master maestro Arturo Toscanini 
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Heart of the Matter View Drop Down
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Mar Y Sol Festival, Puerto Rico, 1972
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[/QUOTE]

BTW I do enjoy ELP's version from Mar Y Sol (A festival held in Puerto Rico in 1972). It is the shorter version but Keith's Hammond spits and crackles very pleasingly!
[/QUOTE]

Concur...Emerson's Hammond never sounded better live then on Mar Y Sol...
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Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Pictures At An Exhibtion was originally about ELP playing at the Isle Of Wight festival in 1970 but before their debut album came out. They had to cobble something together at short notice and so of course took on Mussorgsky's popular classical work (although actually made famous when Ravel added orchestration as it was originally a series of solo piano pieces).

'Pictures' was one of the Classical releases I owned in my early 20's. I initially bought and subsequently returned to was the Brendel and Previn disk, where the Piano version is followed by Ravel's orchestration. Because I knew the classical version years before I heard ELP's truncated encore, my view of the latter has always been coloured, unfavourably by the former. I don't believe even ELP believed their version to be on a par with a studio album, as it was initially their intention to release a double album, with this as the 'second' record. In the end, they released it as a stand alone, but at mid-price. It's great fun, but really can't be compared to Ricochet...



Nice! I have a CD with Leonard Bernstein conducting. I haven't dug it out for years.

Apparently there are some 40+ different orchestrated versions inc one by Sir Henry Wood who founded 'The Proms'. Generally it's the Ravel version that is the standard.

I also love Tomita's version ( and for me it's better than ELP's version). Keith Emerson was also a bit of a fan of Tomita's version on the quiet and 'nicked' some of it for ELP's 1974 and later versions I think.

BTW I do enjoy ELP's version from Mar Y Sol (A festival held in Puerto Rico in 1972). It is the shorter version but Keith's Hammond spits and crackles very pleasingly!


Edited by richardh - January 16 2025 at 21:52
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MFP View Drop Down
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I really like Pictures but I love Ricochet. Easy choice for me.
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