Under-estimated bands

Dick Heath wrote: That's a bit of an insult to J.W.Hodkinson, who had one of the finest blues jazz voices of the 70's  - and is still to be heard in the NW of England. (At least his song didn't include tree-hugging).  Alas If's great saxophonist, Dick Morrissey died about two ago.

I agree.It wasn't ment as an insult.I was thinking more about the vocals on Roxanne - which I believe are good,not since he's become a Contempory/New Age artist.

....Moh Ha Ha Ha!

....just kidding Reed

gdub411 wrote: Bay City Rollers

Did you know thatBay City Rollers is an anagram of

"favoured by UPS van drivers" ?

whilst I seem to be on my own on this one, I feel that "The Sentinel" by Pallas is a very under-estimated album by a very under-estimated band.

Let'd hear it for Pallas

I'm bring deafened by the roar of indifference here.

They are good honest-try out the MP3's on this site.

Recommended ones to check out:-

Bodkin - (rare) heavy guitar/organ from Scotland

Black Widow - Unfairly catagorised along side Black Sabbath(much more varied/more suble).More like early Yes and Led Zeppelin or Spooky Tooth.

Byzantium - sort of US West Coast/Jazz Prog

Cirkus - Good vocals(not sure about lyrics)/guitar with mellotron/orchastrated backing.

Clouds - sounds a bit outdated with its jazzy orchastrated backing but there's something about them that I like.

Cressida - A little on the light side for my taste but can't fault their craftsmanship

Czar - If like King Crimson's 21st Cent. Psycho. man you'll like this band

Dark - Fuzz Psych-Prog

If - Jazz Prog - God the singer doesn't half sound like Sting(at his best that is)

Khan - Steve Hillage & Dave Stewart(not that one - the one who played with Bill Bruford) at their best- Space Shantity - a must for any collection.

Fuchusia - only heard one track - 'another nail' but sounds good - folk Psych/prog

Druid - Yes clones but they do it bl**dy well

Fuzzy Duck - Heavy - guitar/organ prog

Comus - Folk psych/prog- First Utterance only though

Lunarscape wrote:

Ivan; Triumvirat have lots of elements similar to ELP but elements enough to be difererent. A typical example of "wannabe" should be Le Orme, not Triumvirat. The main difference is that Jurgen Fritz had a much stronger "classical" influence in his keyboard playing, where as Emmerson is borderline between jazz and neoclassic. ELP had more fusion elements in their music than Triumvirat. The similarities; prog power-trios with keyboards, drums and bass

No Lunarscape, I never said Triumvirat was an ELP clone, I was the one who said they were under estimated, blame that to others (LOL), I even said I found Spartacus and Illusions as strong as almost any ELP album,  and I stand on this. Also Mediterranean Tales and Pompeii are pretty decent albums.

Can’t agree more with your description of both bands, I always felt Keith Emerson received his main influence from the late Romantic and Modern classical periods, you can listen lots of references from those periods (Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Janacek or even Ginastera).

Some people blame them for A La Carte or even for Russian Roulette and they are right, those albums don’t have the same quality as the ones above mentioned, but if you dig in the backyard of every good band you’ll find some corpses also, in the case of  ELP there is Love Beach and In the Hot Seat, Genesis has almost all the three men era, Yes has the Rabin years, Wakeman has a lot of bland New Age, etc.

About Le Orme I don’t agree with you, in Felona e Sorona, the Yes and Genesis references are at least as strong as the ones from ELP, but as every Italian Symphonic band they had that unique Mediterranean sound blended with Symphonic prog’ that made them so different to any British Progressive band

About Kansas Cesar talked enough and I agree 100% with him (Now you believe me they are under estimated by many Prog’ fans?), they were far from being mediocre as someone said before, Kansas is pure USA Prog’, they blended hard rock with symphonic prog’ and melodic music perfectly, the fact they had some commercial songs doesn’t make them bad.

No prog’ band had more commercial success than Pink Floyd and they are considered the “peak of the crop” by millions. Returning to Kansas, Even Dust in the Wind is a beautiful tune, simple but effective, far from being a love song as some “intelligent” critic wrote in a famous magazine (on the contrary it’s depressive), but it was media’s fault that the song was overplayed and everybody got tired of it.

2 or 3 albums? I'd say at least 10 albums, please, where do you leave tracks as  Song For America, Miracles Out of Nowhere, Closet Chronicles, Magnum Opus, The Wall, Icarus, Journey from Mariabronn, Portrait, Carry on Wayward Son, etc. All great prog’ songs from different albums.

Kansas IMO never went POP, you can blame them for being closer to hard rock than most symphonic bands but hard rock is not POP.

The opinions about Focus seem divided, Richardh even called them tedious and lazy. Well, they are different to any British Prog’ band, as the Italians, the people of  Nederland have their own unique style, sometimes Ackerman’s melodic passages seem endless, but that’s their own sound, it’s softer than most British prog’, but Camel is also softer and also are very good.

Maybe the fact that Focus is mainly instrumental (This Van Leer uses his voice mostly for yodeling and making sounds) makes them seem softer and less complex than they are, but for those that don’t like Focus I recommend Hamburger Concerto, I’m sure you’ll find this album rewarding.

Nice discussion.

Lunarscape wrote: Bands like Kansas are definitly not underestimated since you dont survive on 3-4 prog rock tunes on two albums. IMO Kansas is indeed overestimated mostly due to marketing policies by some record companies. Ivan; Triumvirat have lots of elements similar to ELP but elements enough to be difererent. A typical example of "wannabe" should be Le Orme, not Triumvirat.

Once again here we are: KANSAS were keen on melodies and fine arrangements, and then they scored a number of hit singles... Voilá... they are overestimated. In my humble opinion, they were a prog rock band that put special emphasis on the rock side of things, yet their multi-keyboard orchestrations, emotional melodic lines, the splendorous use of violin and piano in many places, and of course, the bizarre arrangements and complex rhythm patterns in their most ambitious numbers, all of these factors qualify them as a very good prog band. But again, they made lots of money with some singles, right?, and that's something that a "allegedly real" prog-head should not forgive them, right?  Yeah, KANSAS went AOR regrettably, but that's IMHO less sick than going techno-pop, like Genesis): Banks and co. should have left the techno-business in the exclusive hands of Ultravox, OMD, and some others who knew better. 

Now, LE ORME. While LE ORME received some clear influences by ELP, they managed to keep a distinct sound very much related to that Mediterranean folklore that also filled some of the best compositions by PFM and BMS. The baroque factor in some LE ORME's numbers is also based upon the spirit of their own land, not ELP. That becomes obvious whenever Pagliuca plays his RMI electric harpsichord with fluid delicateness; it's a 20th Century Italian paying tribute to an 18th Century fellowcountryman, not imitating Emerson. When playing the Hammond, you can tell that he was into Emerson, but the band itself was far from being a ELP clone. To me it's obvious that TRIUMVIRAT is much, too much less independent from the ELP influence than LE ORME (not that I don't enjoy Trumvirat's first four albums, which I do, indeed...)

Nice discussion indeed, as well... Regards.  

ivan_2068 wrote: Kansas: Often compared with STYX, Boston and other AOR bands due to the fact that all are from USA and reached their peak around the same years, Triumvirat: They are considered ELP clones when I really believe Illusions and Spartacus are as solid as any ELP release. Focus: The fact that they are from a country where prog' bands are not prolific leads to consider them a B class band, when I believe they are unique. Also because they are a flute based band leads to compare them or confuse them with Jethro Tull (90% of the people still believe The House of the King is a Tull song) when both are completely different. Iván

1. Only the first 2 Kansas albums are that good IMO.After that they went AOR .....or should that be AWOL? 

2.Triumvirat are ELP 'wannabies'.Nowhere near as good as ELP though.

3 Focus could be very tedious at times.Too much of ther music is 'lazy' and lacks structure for my liking.They could be brilliant though ie 'Sylvia' and 'Hocus Pocus'.