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Philip 
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 Topic: Anglagard vs. Bacamarte
Posted: September 19 2007 at 15:18 |
 Nightfly wrote:
I haven't heard Bacamarte, am I missing something special here? |
You are missing something very, very special.
I could be a little suspect in here because i'm portuguese and normally, portuguese prog rock fans like brazilian prog rock. But Depois do Fim is really a unique album and an absolute masterpiece of prog as we see in the ratings. It's an essencial album
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akin
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 09:16 |
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i don't like Anglagard very much. I think the prog in Hybris is not natural and lacks fresh ideas.
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Nightfly
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 08:54 |
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I haven't heard Bacamarte, am I missing something special here?
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Sckxyss
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 16:02 |
P.H.P. wrote:
Correction:
"I still in disagreement with you Iván, because you continue saying that they're 100% 70's prog, and my believe is that there's no such band.."
And nop, Iván, it's not bad taste, it's only to compare results and see what others think, about what we're talking, just that, or is it bad taste if I care about other's considerations?, I don't think so.
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How can you even continue arguing after reading his last post? He proved, with quoted evidence that they stuck purely to the 70s symphonic sound. Unless you can find some evidence that contradicts that, you have no argument. The opinions gathered from a poll can't change fact.
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oracus
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 08:41 |
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They both made a masterpiece! But i think Hybris is one of my favorites, so i vote it
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Mlaen
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 08:26 |
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There are very, very few albums that can match the majesty of Depois do fim...
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P.H.P.
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 02:16 |
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Correction:
"I still in disagreement with you Iván, because you continue saying
that they're 100% 70's prog, and my believe is that there's no such band.."
And nop, Iván, it's not bad taste, it's only to compare results and see what others think, about what we're talking, just that, or is it bad taste if I care about other's considerations?, I don't think so.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 01:13 |
P.H.P. wrote:
I still in disagreement with you Iván, because you continue saying that they're 100% prog, and my believe is that there's no such band,
Well, that they were 100% Prog is out of the question, Anglagard is 100% Prog as a lot of bands, more than most because they didn't had time to became any other thing being that they disolved after only two albums.
all are inspired in 70's prog music, because to be really 100% 70's they must have grown in that period of time like adults, not teens, or use a time machine to stop the time back in the 70's, thing that is ficticious and never happened, but what I really say is to sound 70's you must not have listened to any new stuff because that would be a distractory in order to create a pure 70's band, and that's pretty hard, ergo, to be completely 70's prog sounding is impossible in any later time.
Why? They grew listening Prog, remember when Anglagard was formed, the youngest member was 16 and the older were 21.
They formed the band exclusively to play music of the 70's:
| In the summer of 1991 Tord Lindman and Johan Högberg were looking for musicians with an interest for the progressive and innovative music of the early seventies.
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They even say it in an interview, they accepted no fusion or other styles:
| What were your motivations for playing progressive rock?
Mattias Olsson: I think we were all big fans of the old bands, and decided "we are going to do this for real!", "we are going to do the big symphonic rock album!". And we were very lucky to find other people who were really into it, who were ready to play the same kind of music. Indeed, I've been talking with other people in London and in America, for instance, and they always say "I really want to begin a symphonic rock band, but I've this guitar player who is really into fusion", or "I've my bass player who really wants to play pop", so it never really matches. We were really lucky to find out members that could agree and play the same kind of music, in the same way.
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As a fact Thomas Johnson, Mattias Olsson and Jonas Engdegĺrd went to school together and they studied with a teacher who was a fan of the 60's and 70's.
| You went to school together with Jonas and Mattias. What was it like, when you had music classes?
We had the best possible music teacher. He is kind of a folk musician playing electric guitar with a huge collection of '60s and '70s rock/pop/prog/psyk/folk music. We were about five, six students that regularly went to the music room to play some guitar, have a cup of coffee, listen to odd music. I don't remember his music lessons very well though
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So they all grew listening 70's music, their teacher formed them with the same music the bands of the 70's listened and formed a band exclusively to play 70's music, the result couldn't be other.
And Anglagard is so appreciated because of their very great symphonic prog inspired in the 70's prog, and that wonderfully sounded classic and modern and the same time, that's because they're so interesting for us prog-heads, remember modernity doesn't necessarily mean bad, just ask Dream Theater in the 90's.
Never said Modern is synonymous of bad, there are lots of modern bands that I love, but Anglagard as a band was extremely careful to play exclusively in the style of the 70's and even refusing to use any technology not availlable in the 70's.
As a matter of facts, Anglagard is more complex and more Symphonic than most of the 70's Symphonic bands.
Almost forgot, please don't mention Dream Theater as an example of a great band, I can't stand them, this doesn't mean they are bad or has anythjing to do with modernity, it's simply I don't like their music at all.
Iván
EDIT: Please if it's so important for you to be right, it's OK you are right and they are modern (for you), but please don't start a poll asking who agrees or disagrees with you or me, this is not a contest and that poll is pretty distasteful.
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 18 2007 at 02:18
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P.H.P.
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 00:41 |
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...And Iván what about Wobbler?
Anyways I will create a poll about Anglagard's sound, to see what others think about it, ok?
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moreitsythanyou
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 00:26 |
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I've always thought of these two bands together because they're both quite good, but far from the masterpieces people makes them out to be. Either way, Hybris.
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 <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]
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P.H.P.
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Posted: September 18 2007 at 00:22 |
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I still in disagreement with you Iván, because you continue saying that they're 100% 70's prog, and my believe is that there's no such band, all are inspired in 70's prog music, because to be really 100% 70's they must have grown in that period of time like adults, not teens, or use a time machine to stop the time back in the 70's, thing that is ficticious and never happened, but what I really say is to sound 70's you must not have listened to any new stuff because that would be a distractory in order to create a pure 70's band, and that's pretty hard, ergo, to be completely 70's prog sounding is impossible in any later time.
And Anglagard is so appreciated because of their very great symphonic prog inspired in the 70's prog, and that wonderfully sounded classic and modern and the same time, that's because they're so interesting for us prog-heads, remember modernity doesn't necessarily mean bad, just ask Dream Theater in the 90's.
Edited by P.H.P. - September 18 2007 at 02:12
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 23:19 |
P.H.P. wrote:
Iván, I mantain my statement, by the following reasons, think well...
why are Anglagard so famous in the Prog Rock scene, and of course among prog fans?
1) because they did exactly 70's symph??....no
I believe that's precisely the reason why they are so appreciated, after more than a decade of Neo Prog, a genre that wasn't fully accepted by plder Progheads, returning to the 70's was a miracle for most of us.
Lets remember that the orioginal prog bands were doing stuff closer to Pop than to Prog, so Anglagard was a return to the roots.
2) or because they brought a fresh new air into symphonic prog scene??....yes
there many bands doing traditional 70's prog, with no success in prog fans, wonder why...do you seriously think if Anglagard would have done just traditional 70's symph they would have reached that high status in Prog Rock circles?
Yes, Neo was seen as bland by most Prog fans, lets be honest with that, the old fans believed Prog as they knew it was dead, but then out of nowhere comes a band formed by teens that made the exact music they liked. with the same approach as the pioneers, this is for what many of us prayed during the 80's-
It's also important to remember that in the 80's and early 90's it wasn't common to fiond Prog bands doing pure Symphonic, Anglagard and par Lind started all again.
I don't think so, the answer is obvious, to sound 70's it's not everything about instrumentation like you argued,
Not argued that PHP, it's the approach, the sound, orchestration, atmosphere, complexity, everything.
it's about the music that you really do, their music is inspired with no doubt in the 70's sound, it's complex music, most than some traditional 70's bands,
Please PHP it's clearly pure and pristine 70's sound, no references to Neo Prog or anything released in the 80's.
it certainly has a bit of 80's prog sound, an eclectic sound they develop, so there's no 100% of pure 70's prog like you said, there's modernity and originality in the music of Anglagard, and most important than that, they're good.
They are original because they copied nobody, that they are good, they are great, but i can't find any band closer to the 70's in any later decade than Anglagard.
Cheers
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 17 2007 at 23:21
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Evandro Martini
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 19:42 |
I vote for Bacamarte. I have to say that what what keeps me from loving Anglagard as much as most of you do is their metal influence. It's totally clear to me that they have metal influence, as their sound often gets very heavy, with distorted guitars and keyboards that don't sound very pleasant. On the other hand, Bacamarte always sounds beautiful to my ears, with great instrumental and a gentle singer as well. And I've heard from reliable sources that their album was recorded in 1977, but they could release it only years later. If it wasn't so, anyway, the songs were already composed by 1977. So it's no surprise they have a pure 70s sound 
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"You’ll never make any money playing music that people can’t sing.” Keith Emerson's father
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P.H.P.
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 18:20 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
P.H.P. wrote:
Bacamarte sounds more 70's than Anglagard, Depois do Fim was done in the 80's, and Anglagard's in the 90's so that's where their progressive rock sound could grab a bit more of modernity, even some melodic and metallic hints to their music, like it was on Hybris. |
IMHO this part is not accurate P.H.P. Anglagard is a product of Prog Renaissance in Sweden which started with the foundation of the Swedish Art Rock Academy by Par Lindh to rescue the values of Symphonic Prog of the 70's as their fundamental mission.
Anglagard's sound is 100% exact to the 70's, as a fact there can't be any hint of modernity because they refused to use any instrument or technology not availlable in the 70's.
You can find some hints of Metal (more precisely Prog Metal took it from them) in Par Lindh Project, but Anglagard is pure 70's Symphonic.
Bacamarte on the other hand mixes Genesis and Yes influences with Italian Symphonic influence, more precisely of PFM but closer to the Argentinean approach rather than Brazilian.
Both are outstanding bands, but there's no way Bacamarte has a more 70's oriented sound than Anglagard.
Now, this is 100% subjective, but I go with Anglagard, IMHO the most impressive band after Gabriel's Genesis.
Iván |
Iván, I mantain my statement, by the following reasons, think well... why are Anglagard so famous in the Prog Rock scene, and of course among prog fans?
1) because they did exactly 70's symph??....no
2) or because they brought a fresh new air into symphonic prog scene??....yesthere many bands doing traditional 70's prog, with no success in prog fans, wonder why...do you seriously think if Anglagard would have done just traditional 70's symph they would have reached that high status in Prog Rock circles?... I don't think so, the answer is obvious, to sound 70's it's not everything about instrumentation like you argued, it's about the music that you really do, their music is inspired with no doubt in the 70's sound, it's complex music, most than some traditional 70's bands, it certainly has a bit of 80's prog sound, an eclectic sound they develop, so there's no 100% of pure 70's prog like you said, there's modernity and originality in the music of Anglagard, and most important than that, they're good.
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1800iareyay
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Posted: September 16 2007 at 21:51 |
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Anglagard edges out Bacamarte for me. Hybris is nearly perfect, while Depois do Fim has some moments that come off as filler to me. Very close call, though.
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Shakespeare
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Posted: September 16 2007 at 21:51 |
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Rock on Ivan.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: September 16 2007 at 21:46 |
P.H.P. wrote:
Bacamarte sounds more 70's than Anglagard, Depois do Fim was done in the 80's, and Anglagard's in the 90's so that's where their progressive rock sound could grab a bit more of modernity, even some melodic and metallic hints to their music, like it was on Hybris. |
IMHO this part is not accurate P.H.P. Anglagard is a product of Prog Renaissance in Sweden which started with the foundation of the Swedish Art Rock Academy by Par Lindh to rescue the values of Symphonic Prog of the 70's as their fundamental mission.
Anglagard's sound is 100% exact to the 70's, as a fact there can't be any hint of modernity because they refused to use any instrument or technology not availlable in the 70's.
You can find some hints of Metal (more precisely Prog Metal took it from them) in Par Lindh Project, but Anglagard is pure 70's Symphonic.
Bacamarte on the other hand mixes Genesis and Yes influences with Italian Symphonic influence, more precisely of PFM but closer to the Argentinean approach rather than Brazilian.
Both are outstanding bands, but there's no way Bacamarte has a more 70's oriented sound than Anglagard.
Now, this is 100% subjective, but I go with Anglagard, IMHO the most impressive band after Gabriel's Genesis.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - September 16 2007 at 22:05
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Sckxyss
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Posted: September 16 2007 at 19:51 |
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Tough poll! I love both albums.. I'll go with Bacamarte to even out the score. The fact that it was alone as one of the only solid pure prog albums in the 80s makes it more special for me.
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P.H.P.
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Posted: September 16 2007 at 17:20 |
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Both bands have nothing in common, completely different sounds, both really well done, remember Bacamarte has all the latin flavour and Anglagard has the tradition of the european sound, Bacamarte sounds more 70's than Anglagard, Depois do Fim was done in the 80's, and Anglagard's in the 90's so that's where their progressive rock sound could grab a bit more of modernity, even some melodic and metallic hints to their music, like it was on Hybris.
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magnus
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Posted: September 16 2007 at 17:13 |
Oh my, this is a hard one! I LOVE Depois do Film, especially the wonderful Passaro de Luz... But I'm not sure if I can choose between that and Hybris  oh, shucks... I'll vote for Depois do Film just to even the score a bit...
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The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Anglagard vs. Bacamarte
