Subgenre Discussion

bhikkhu wrote: Logan wrote: I would like a tree (subcategories), but apparently the software does not make it possible at this time.  For instance: you click on Prog Metal and then the subcategories are listed but also includes a master band list of all metal bands.I wouldn't want a category called "Other (Zeuhl, Avant, Electronic, Raga, etc.)" or general either, but I do think that Zeuhl could be made a subcategory of Avant, and one could include Krautrock and Canterbury too).  Or maybe not, as there is that relation to jazz/ rock fusion in Canterbury, Zeuhl, RIO, and well lots of Prog... Never mind.. needs more thought.I've sometimes wondered if jazzy prog and non-jazzy prog categories would work. haha.  Way too simplistic, but subcategories would be great. Where were you when I was having this discussion before.

I would've offered my support if I'd seen it, it would be a great improvement.  When I last suggested it, though, I seem to remember being told that the change was not currently supported by the forum software.

It's what I thought might be good when I saw the Art Rock split (though wasn't sure how a master category should be handled, described or quite how it should work), and then again with Prog Metal (a simple one).   I do remember some other conversations on simplifying the categories (which is when I wanted master and sub-categories).  There's often an overlap of styles in the categories.  I'd also like to see subcategories for ones like Prog Folk (Symphonic Folk, Acid Folk, Celtic Folk, Folk-Rock, World Folk or whatever).  In fact, with something like the metal split, we could expect this at some time. Oh, and I'd be tempted to put Indo Prog/ Raga rock under folk.

However it's done, it should make it easier to find music of interest... As it is now, it looks rather intimidating, sloppy, and confusing.  Grouping trees would be great that show strong relations between bands (perhaps as an additional feature), and it could be designed in such a way that it indicates the confluence of styles (but that's another idea).  But make the master "genres" simple.

Kotro wrote: The more the subgenres the better. Even the ones we already have should be divided (like Psychedelic/Space Rock or RIO/Avant-Prog). Just stop labeling bands and start labeling albums. This has been discussed for ages now, is it that hard to implement?

I think yes... 

Kotro wrote: The more the subgenres the better. Even the ones we already have should be divided (like Psychedelic/Space Rock or RIO/Avant-Prog).

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Shakespeare wrote: I've always thought that there should be very few subgenres. I think the site would work very well if the genres were simply: General Progressive Rock Progressive Metal Other (Zeuhl, Avant, Electronic, Raga, etc.) Perhaps it would be wise to give a few more separations, but still. It keeps things neat, concise, and general. I like the idea of very few subgenres, but the description of the subgenres can give insight to the many subdivisions of the subgenre. Seems as though a lot of people do like having many subdivions, and some people want even more! I'm not suggesting that we make this a change for the site (especially since we JUST re-did the metal subgenres) but I'd just like to talk about it. What are the advantages to many subgenres? P.S. (I never understood why we need 3 genres for metal when it's all metal. ) How can a genre like "General Progressive Rock" be "concise"? And if you're complaining about the metal separation, why do you want to have more than one genre for rock when it's *all* rock?

Well my post does suggest grouping all rock bands together.

The more the subgenres the better. Even the ones we already have should be divided (like Psychedelic/Space Rock or RIO/Avant-Prog).

Edited by Kotro - December 09 2007 at 07:20

Shakespeare wrote: I've always thought that there should be very few subgenres. I think the site would work very well if the genres were simply: General Progressive Rock Progressive Metal Other (Zeuhl, Avant, Electronic, Raga, etc.) Perhaps it would be wise to give a few more separations, but still. It keeps things neat, concise, and general. I like the idea of very few subgenres, but the description of the subgenres can give insight to the many subdivisions of the subgenre. Seems as though a lot of people do like having many subdivions, and some people want even more! I'm not suggesting that we make this a change for the site (especially since we JUST re-did the metal subgenres) but I'd just like to talk about it. What are the advantages to many subgenres? P.S. (I never understood why we need 3 genres for metal when it's all metal. )

How can a genre like "General Progressive Rock" be "concise"? And if you're complaining about the metal separation, why do you want to have more than one genre for rock when it's *all* rock?

All we need to accomodate your expectations are pages which group the current sub genres together ... it should be no problem to make a page which lists all metal sub genres, another one which lists all core prog rock genres (symphonic, psychedelic/space, neo, eclectic, heavy) and one which lists the rest. In fact I hope that M@x finally decides to spend 5 minutes of his life to create those pages, so that people like you can try them out and see for yourself why such a general categorization is not very helpful.

darqdean wrote: Logan wrote:  And then perhaps we'd need to open it up to members to tag (or enlist many people to tag) or figure it out in the forums wuth everyone's participation.  Or whatever. Tag-teams

Great one! Anyway, we'll wrestle with that if and when the day comes.

Logan wrote:  And then perhaps we'd need to open it up to members to tag (or enlist many people to tag) or figure it out in the forums wuth everyone's participation.  Or whatever.

micky wrote: Logan wrote: Hmm, I've always thought that multi-tagging would be useful, especially if the search engine supports it well.  Say I'm looking for a folk prog/ avant prog/ krautrock/ Zeuhl/ fusion/ symph crossover album (to be overly complicated).  I'd also like to be able to search related bands (but I'm sure that there was another thread on that).  very useful.....    again..  use Yes as an example....  how many of their albums are actually symphonic... on one hand you can count them.   The genres are  guides  now... the problems are when people see them as absolutes...

Absolutely... Not only did many bands change direction (approach other styles.. as a predominant value) but many albums have various styles.

 I definitely like the "genres," as an easy guide, which generally should define the most important characteristics of the Prog sound (or as in Eclectic, one style does not dominate enough and is particularly varied) but this would be very useful as a guide to albums, and to give one an indication of the bands' directions (which albums one should consider, and what one can expect of them.  As it is now, the reviews serve that purpose to an extent, but this would make it much easier to find things via determined criteria).  But what a massively long task it will be to include that info considering the huge number of bands in the database -- so if it's to be done, I hope it's done soon since more albums are being added each day.  And then perhaps we'd need to open it up to members to tag (or enlist many people to tag) or figure it out in the forums wuth everyone's participation.  Or whatever.

Hmm, I've always thought that multi-tagging would be useful, especially if the search engine supports it well.  Say I'm looking for a folk prog/ avant prog/ krautrock/ Zeuhl/ fusion/ symph crossover album (to be overly complicated).  I'd also like to be able to search related bands (but I'm sure that there was another thread on that).