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victor77 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 13 2007
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 142
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 Topic: 6 Degrees of Prog Appreciation
Posted: June 23 2009 at 09:16 |
 paganinio wrote:
you can't listen to industrial prog until you reach level 5. |
does it really exist? there have been some posts about the inclusion of the term as a subgenre, but, as far as I know, no agreement has been reached,Personally, I support the idea
And about this particular point, I think thereīs something wrong on reaching the master level. Despite listening and really loving the most adventurous kinds of music, I donīt consider myself a "MASTER LEVEL" proghead, just a curious listener who still has a lot to discover. Maybe Iīm missing the point, but I donīt think that, once the most difficult and unaccessible music is enjoyed, then the rest should not be appreciated.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: June 22 2009 at 16:54 |
1. Initiate - Rush, Floyd, Tull (Popular Music that is also prog) - Queensryche for the metal crowd
2. Student - Genesis, Yes, ELP (the Symphonic Classics) - Dream Theater, Opeth (the canon of the genre)
3. Apprentice - King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Anglagard (The harder part of the canon, more obscure symphonic) Cynic, Devin Townsend
4. Journeyman - Mahavishnu Orchestra, PFM, Caravan (Checking out other tougher genres) Mr. Bungle, Ohm
5. Craftsman - Ant Phillips, Brand X, QVL, Magma, Softs (Filling out obscure members of the core, trying a little crazy stuff) - Unexpect, Ephel Duath
6. Master - Shakti, Weather Report, Enid, Comus, Jonas Hellborg (The only stuff that excites you doesn't even have reviews on this site and / or immediately empties a room) Kayo Dot, ?????
Many artist will have albums on multiple levels, KC for instance would have ITCOTKC on level 2, Red on 3, and Larks' Tongues on 4 for example. Trespass would be a 3. Weather Report would span 4 to 6.
Edited by Negoba - June 22 2009 at 16:57
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: June 22 2009 at 16:08 |
crimson87 wrote:
1-DSOTM / WYWH/ The Wall
2- Classic symphonic records: CTTE , Foxtrot , and finally BSS and Tales. ( There can be a RPI variation here if the listener does not care about the language barrier)
3-King Crimson/Gentle Giant/VDGG: Essential to open your mind to new sounds at an early stage and also including jazz influences.
4-More exprimental stuff from the 70's: Soft Machine's Third , Can's Tago Mago and Gong.
5-Jazz: All Miles Davis essential records from the late 60's and 70's. Then following records done by his bandmates at the time , that will lead the listener to jazz fusion.
6-Being exposed to jazz , the listener now can get into Rock in opposition Zeuhl or Avant Prog
7-Final Stage: Free Jazz , Several listens to 'Trane's Ascention will get you your PhD in progressive rock. |
This is more like it! (except, I love free jazz, but just not that crazy about Ascention)
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13878
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Posted: June 22 2009 at 13:20 |
Degree One: Fish era Marillion Degree Two: Genesis Degree Three: Yes Degree Four: Hogarth era Marillion Degree Five: The Flower Kings Degree Six: King Crimson I'll probably change my mind later  
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 573
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 22:51 |
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Sorry, you've got that backwards. Stage 6 is reality. Everything else is illusion.
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 21:29 |
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 573
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 21:26 |
Conor Fynes wrote:
Degree One: Pink Floyd
Degree Two: Genesis
Degree Three: Porcupine Tree
Degree Four: The Mars Volta
Degree Five: Dream Theater
Degree Six: Devin Townsend
Fair enough? |
You sure Dream Theater would be Degree Five? They seem like they would be more entry level to me. I think their music is generally easier to grasp than anyone else on that list (except some Pink Floyd) and because they're moderately heavy they would be more accessible for a lot of modern music fans who might get put off by some stuff (like softer Genesis moments)
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 21:03 |
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Stage 6 definitely has to be some sort of Avant-Garde or Free Jazz stuff.
Or Merzbow. Yeah, Merzbow.
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Ignore this fool. He doesn't know what he's talking about.
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YOU'RE NOT COOL ENOUGH TO FULLY APPRECIATE MUSIC YOU'LL BE STUCK AT STAGE 5 FOREVER LOL
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 21:00 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Stage 6 definitely has to be some sort of Avant-Garde or Free Jazz stuff.
Or Merzbow. Yeah, Merzbow.
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Ignore this fool. He doesn't know what he's talking about.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 20:58 |
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Stage 6 definitely has to be some sort of Avant-Garde or Free Jazz stuff.
Or Merzbow. Yeah, Merzbow.
Edited by MovingPictures07 - June 21 2009 at 20:58
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Morakthesage
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 04 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 28
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 20:52 |
Stage 1: Pink Floyd
Stage 2: Symphonic Prog in General
Stage 3: Soft Machine
Stage 4: Hawkwind
Stage 5: Can
Stage 6: Avant Prog/ RIO
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 18:23 |
...or by genre
Degree One: Prog Related/Crossover Prog
Degree Two: Symphonic Prog
Degree Three: Heavy Prog
Degree Four: Progressive Metal (Mainstream)
Degree Five: Post Metal/Extreme Prog Metal
Degree Six: Avant-Garde Metal
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Conor Fynes
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 11 2009
Location: Vancouver, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: June 21 2009 at 18:20 |
Degree One: Pink Floyd
Degree Two: Genesis
Degree Three: Porcupine Tree
Degree Four: The Mars Volta
Degree Five: Dream Theater
Degree Six: Devin Townsend
Fair enough?
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
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Posted: June 20 2009 at 15:00 |
crimson87 wrote:
I don't know about this there are many alterantive ways to get into prog. In my opinion there are two main routes you can follow:
The first one is the one I followed , starting with early 60's bands then into psych stuff from San Francisco and 70's hard rock. This route is recommended for all those that don't like metal
The second one is for the metal lovers that eventually listen to some prog records by mainstream metal bands like Metallica and Iron Maiden , then listening some Power Metal and eventually getting into DT (Probably getting also into LTE or Transatilantic which may get them into KC via Tony Levin or TFK Marillion and Spocks Beard) , they will then look for similar modern acts and listen to Tool PT and eventually reaching Pink Floyd to make a conection with the golden era.
Levels of appreciation , well I am not quite sure but here it goes
1-DSOTM / WYWH/ The Wall
2- Classic symphonic records: CTTE , Foxtrot , and finally BSS and Tales. ( There can be a RPI variation here if the listener does not care about the language barrier)
3-King Crimson/Gentle Giant/VDGG: Essential to open your mind to new sounds at an early stage and also including jazz influences.
4-More exprimental stuff from the 70's: Soft Machine's Third , Can's Tago Mago and Gong.
5-Jazz: All Miles Davis essential records from the late 60's and 70's. Then following records done by his bandmates at the time , that will lead the listener to jazz fusion.
6-Being exposed to jazz , the listener now can get into Rock in opposition Zeuhl or Avant Prog
7-Final Stage: Free Jazz , Several listens to 'Trane's Ascention will get you your PhD in progressive rock. |
Think you nailed it right on the head. I actually got into jazz before I got into prog so my intro to prog was through Jazz-Fusion (so I started on level 5 and then went to level 1  ). But for the most part, the entire pyramid is dead on. I guess I'm really all over the place, needing to get into Gentle Giant and VDGG more but having already digested a lot of jazz. So its probably the RIO, Avant Garde and Free Jazz stuff I haven't even touched upon
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: June 20 2009 at 14:51 |
crimson87 wrote:
I don't know about this there are many alterantive ways to get into prog. In my opinion there are two main routes you can follow:
The first one is the one I followed , starting with early 60's bands then into psych stuff from San Francisco and 70's hard rock. This route is recommended for all those that don't like metal
The second one is for the metal lovers that eventually listen to some prog records by mainstream metal bands like Metallica and Iron Maiden , then listening some Power Metal and eventually getting into DT (Probably getting also into LTE or Transatilantic which may get them into KC via Tony Levin or TFK Marillion and Spocks Beard) , they will then look for similar modern acts and listen to Tool PT and eventually reaching Pink Floyd to make a conection with the golden era.
Levels of appreciation , well I am not quite sure but here it goes
1-DSOTM / WYWH/ The Wall
2- Classic symphonic records: CTTE , Foxtrot , and finally BSS and Tales. ( There can be a RPI variation here if the listener does not care about the language barrier)
3-King Crimson/Gentle Giant/VDGG: Essential to open your mind to new sounds at an early stage and also including jazz influences.
4-More exprimental stuff from the 70's: Soft Machine's Third , Can's Tago Mago and Gong.
5-Jazz: All Miles Davis essential records from the late 60's and 70's. Then following records done by his bandmates at the time , that will lead the listener to jazz fusion.
6-Being exposed to jazz , the listener now can get into Rock in opposition Zeuhl or Avant Prog
7-Final Stage: Free Jazz , Several listens to 'Trane's Ascention will get you your PhD in progressive rock. |
According to this I'm working on level 5 now, I haven't listened to much jazz yet but I've heard Kind of Blue and I love it, but I have listened to Mahavishnu Orchestra and I love Henry Cow and a bit of a fancy for some Zeuhl. If I listen to more jazz I would go straight to 7.
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: June 20 2009 at 12:40 |
I don't know about this there are many alterantive ways to get into prog. In my opinion there are two main routes you can follow:
The first one is the one I followed , starting with early 60's bands then into psych stuff from San Francisco and 70's hard rock. This route is recommended for all those that don't like metal
The second one is for the metal lovers that eventually listen to some prog records by mainstream metal bands like Metallica and Iron Maiden , then listening some Power Metal and eventually getting into DT (Probably getting also into LTE or Transatilantic which may get them into KC via Tony Levin or TFK Marillion and Spocks Beard) , they will then look for similar modern acts and listen to Tool PT and eventually reaching Pink Floyd to make a conection with the golden era.
Levels of appreciation , well I am not quite sure but here it goes
1-DSOTM / WYWH/ The Wall
2- Classic symphonic records: CTTE , Foxtrot , and finally BSS and Tales. ( There can be a RPI variation here if the listener does not care about the language barrier)
3-King Crimson/Gentle Giant/VDGG: Essential to open your mind to new sounds at an early stage and also including jazz influences.
4-More exprimental stuff from the 70's: Soft Machine's Third , Can's Tago Mago and Gong.
5-Jazz: All Miles Davis essential records from the late 60's and 70's. Then following records done by his bandmates at the time , that will lead the listener to jazz fusion.
6-Being exposed to jazz , the listener now can get into Rock in opposition Zeuhl or Avant Prog
7-Final Stage: Free Jazz , Several listens to 'Trane's Ascention will get you your PhD in progressive rock.
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: June 20 2009 at 06:05 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
I award PhD's for prog appreciation to people who enjoy all of the following albums.
1. King Crimson -- Lizard
2. The Flower Kings -- Space Revolver
3. Magma -- MDK
4. Marillion -- Script for a Jester's Tear
5. Mike Oldfield -- Amarok
6. Peter Gabriel -- PG III |
PhD me, mister!! --- Based on paganinio's model, I can't get clearence for levels 3 and 5, because I hate metal.  And I refuse to get my PhD with a work on Close To The Edge. The theory that CttE is a masterpiece is just as valid as geocentric model of the universe turned out to be. 
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
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Posted: June 20 2009 at 05:40 |
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: June 20 2009 at 02:46 |
I award PhD's for prog appreciation to people who enjoy all of the following albums.
1. King Crimson -- Lizard
2. The Flower Kings -- Space Revolver
3. Magma -- MDK
4. Marillion -- Script for a Jester's Tear
5. Mike Oldfield -- Amarok
6. Peter Gabriel -- PG III
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paganinio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1327
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Posted: June 20 2009 at 01:07 |
The Quiet One wrote:
^please explain a lit bit more what do I have to do, sounds like fun, but not sure what to do.
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OK here are some more guidelines. 1. you can't listen to symphonic rock until you reach level 4. 2. you can't listen to industrial prog until you reach level 5. 3. you can't have a full listen to Close to the Edge until you reach level 6. I haven't done those things, and I'm at level 3. 
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6 Degrees of Prog Appreciation
