Christian Prog

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Well, if none of your statements was meant ironically or in a sarcastic way, then I apologize.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Can we talk about something else now?

Yes, what about ... preachy lyrics?

Well, another example is: Iona, one of my favourite bands. I love their music but find it hard to appreciate their lyrics - again not because of their religious nature (I'm not religious but I can relate to the "universal" spiritual sentiment behind religious texts) but because most of them are not very inventive or playful.

In general, I think Iona are a good example for bands that get shunned because of their religious beliefs and contents - although, musically, they should be as famous and adored as Clannad or similar bands. It's really sad ...    

MikeEnRegalia wrote: I don't know Iona, I'll listen to some samples ...

Here are some samples from their guitarist's solo album. Stylistically the album's very much like Iona.

Edited by Miaugion

Trouserpress wrote: bmorgan wrote: Fishy wrote: Trouserpress wrote : I don't like anyone who preaches in music, whatever the message they're delivering is. Couldn't agree more !!! If you want to write a book, write a book, not a song !!! Everyone has the right to stand for his beliefs but religion should really be a private matter. If some religious artist gets his inspiration from his beliefs that's allright !!! But if he starts writing lyrics about it.....no thank you !!!!!!     So really great composers such as Handel and the contemporary composer Arvo Part should shut the f**k up, huh? This music beats the sh*t out of any prog crap you can throw.... Oh yeah, as well as composing music, people from all religious traditions have been writing books for centuries. There's this book called the Bible, one called the Koran, etc. And check out the Upanishads....... I mean there's something for everyone. You see, religious people have been doing it all for centuries....... I find that most folks who have a problem with any religious reference in music really don't have a problem when composers/musicians throw anti-religious themes at the world, especially these damn rockers who think their sh*t don't stink. Usually, it's kids that are impressed and influenced by these kinds of lyrics. Don't believe me then come see me where I work, dude. You can hardly reach the kids I work with, can't hardly talk to them. Throw some damn Slipknot at them or some other sh*t music and......well, see for yourself. It's a weird world.......and rock n' roll has helped in making it weird. Drugged up pieces of sh*t idolized by teenie boppers.....   Point i - My original statement was that music shouldn't be a platform for PREACHING. If religious beliefs provide inspiration for music then that's fine. Even discuss it lyrically for all I care as long as it's poetic and unimposing. What bothers me is when ANY KIND OF OPINION BE IT PRO OR ANTI-RELIGIOUS is shoved down my throat just by listening to a piece of music. Point ii - There isn't "something for everyone" in terms of religious texts, as not everyone is religious. I don't understand that statement at all. Point iii - I'm 19, and therefore probably come under the category of a "kid" or "teenie bopper" as you (somewhat hilariously) referred to us as. Believe it or not, not all young people are easily influenced and we don't all wear Marilyn Manson t-shirts. Some are, just as some adults will swallow whatever the gogglebox throws at them.

Point 1 and Point 3 - "as long as it's poetic and unimposing."  Don't want to be bothered, eh? Don't care to be challenged? Is that it? I've actually read quite a bit of poetry in my life and found it very imposing....some even challenging me to be a better person. Would such poetry be considered too "preachy" for you?

Some of the most challenging ideas that I have encountered in my lifetime have come from sources that were incongruous with my religious background. Hell, I'm currently reading - with much pleasure I might add  - some work of Anthony Flew.

I was 19 once - don't care to be again. I am an educator and business man who deals with both pre-teens and teens.  I encounter within a 12 month period somewhere around 350+ kids.  I am well aware that not all teens are "bad". But I have seen for several years now what "worldly" influences have done to many teens. Yes, rock and roll HAS  been ONE terrible influence in many of their lives. I'm not even going to waste my time arguing the point. 

Point 2 - You totally misunderstood me which is probably my fault since I had a stinking night with some kids - almost had to arrest three of them.  The guy wrote something to the effect that religious ideas should be in books not music. The point is simple: since the beginning, both books and music have provided a medium for the expression of religious ideas. This idea that religion is a private matter is an idea I have a problem with, especially since I'm a liberatarian. Nuff said. Ain't even worth arguing about on this forum.........

I'm going to listen to good music.......like THE MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA

 

 

I think people have more of a problem with not liking the music than agreeing with the lyrics. We listen to death metal not because we like to slit our guts open and disembowl each other but because we like the music. I don't see "christian" lyrics stopping me from listening to any particular band - but if the music is bland or just plain SUCKS than i'm not going to listen to it. The best christian song writers are the ones that you don't realize are actually christian.

seabre wrote: I think most of you people are just being silly idiots.

wtf?

Edited by MikeEnRegalia

Some Christian metal bands (often categorized as "white metal" bands):
Tourniquet (thrash metal with prog elements)
Veni Domine (doom metal with prog elements)
Saviour Machine (try this one)
Recon (similar (which means almost identical) to early Queensryche)
Believer ( a death metal (!!!) band)

Trouserpress wrote: bmorgan wrote: Trouserpress wrote: bmorgan wrote: Fishy wrote: Trouserpress wrote : I don't like anyone who preaches in music, whatever the message they're delivering is. Couldn't agree more !!! If you want to write a book, write a book, not a song !!! Everyone has the right to stand for his beliefs but religion should really be a private matter. If some religious artist gets his inspiration from his beliefs that's allright !!! But if he starts writing lyrics about it.....no thank you !!!!!!     So really great composers such as Handel and the contemporary composer Arvo Part should shut the f**k up, huh? This music beats the sh*t out of any prog crap you can throw.... Oh yeah, as well as composing music, people from all religious traditions have been writing books for centuries. There's this book called the Bible, one called the Koran, etc. And check out the Upanishads....... I mean there's something for everyone. You see, religious people have been doing it all for centuries....... I find that most folks who have a problem with any religious reference in music really don't have a problem when composers/musicians throw anti-religious themes at the world, especially these damn rockers who think their sh*t don't stink. Usually, it's kids that are impressed and influenced by these kinds of lyrics. Don't believe me then come see me where I work, dude. You can hardly reach the kids I work with, can't hardly talk to them. Throw some damn Slipknot at them or some other sh*t music and......well, see for yourself. It's a weird world.......and rock n' roll has helped in making it weird. Drugged up pieces of sh*t idolized by teenie boppers.....   Point i - My original statement was that music shouldn't be a platform for PREACHING. If religious beliefs provide inspiration for music then that's fine. Even discuss it lyrically for all I care as long as it's poetic and unimposing. What bothers me is when ANY KIND OF OPINION BE IT PRO OR ANTI-RELIGIOUS is shoved down my throat just by listening to a piece of music. Point ii - There isn't "something for everyone" in terms of religious texts, as not everyone is religious. I don't understand that statement at all. Point iii - I'm 19, and therefore probably come under the category of a "kid" or "teenie bopper" as you (somewhat hilariously) referred to us as. Believe it or not, not all young people are easily influenced and we don't all wear Marilyn Manson t-shirts. Some are, just as some adults will swallow whatever the gogglebox throws at them. Point 1 and Point 3 - "as long as it's poetic and unimposing."  Don't want to be bothered, eh? Don't care to be challenged? Is that it? I've actually read quite a bit of poetry in my life and found it very imposing....some even challenging me to be a better person. Would such poetry be considered too "preachy" for you? Yes. bmorgan wrote: Some of the most challenging ideas that I have encountered in my lifetime have come from sources that were incongruous with my religious background. Hell, I'm currently reading - with much pleasure I might add  - some work of Anthony Flew. Wonderful. And this is relevant how, exactly? bmorgan wrote: I was 19 once - don't care to be again. I am an educator and business man who deals with both pre-teens and teens.  I encounter within a 12 month period somewhere around 350+ kids.  I am well aware that not all teens are "bad". But I have seen for several years now what "worldly" influences have done to many teens. Yes, rock and roll HAS  been ONE terrible influence in many of their lives. I'm not even going to waste my time arguing the point.  But you just did. So you had a dreadful time being a teenager and you meet some others who currently are. That's a real shame and you all have my sympathy, but just don't tar us all with the same brush, that's all I'm asking. bmorgan wrote: Point 2 - You totally misunderstood me which is probably my fault since I had a stinking night with some kids - almost had to arrest three of them.  The guy wrote something to the effect that religious ideas should be in books not music. The point is simple: since the beginning, both books and music have provided a medium for the expression of religious ideas. This idea that religion is a private matter is an idea I have a problem with, especially since I'm a liberatarian. Nuff said. Ain't even worth arguing about on this forum......... Well that was his comments not mine. The big difference, though, between religious ideas in religious texts and those same ideas in music is simple - music is a form of popular entertainment, religious texts are treated more as guidebooks and/or historical documents. My point still stands - I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT MUSIC IS AN APPROPRIATE PLATFORM FOR PREACHING ANY IDEAS. You seem to be taking great care to skirt round that issue, despite it being the core of my argument. bmorgan wrote: I'm going to listen to good music.......like THE MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA They're okay. I like my fusion to be a little livelier though. Have you ever heard Samla Mammas Manna?

So apparently it's a matter of opinion. I think music can be used in any way the composer sees fit. And I realize that was his comments.....I was originally referring to both of you. Yes, prog music is popular entertainment...more serious than top 40 stuff. But some folks find music a bit mre than mere entertainment. Of course, if you don't like "preachy" lyrics no one is forcing you to listen. I'm not skirting any issue buddy. MUSIC - EVEN NON-VOCAL MUSIC - CAN AND HAS BEEN THE MEDIUM FOR MANY PHILOSOPHICAL, RELIGIOUS, POLITICAL, ETC., IDEAS. And it's not about to change now.

I didn't say I had a dreadful time being a teen......in fact, I enjoyed my teen life. But with the life I have now, it doesn't compare. I have more freedom, knowledge, money, etc.  And there is one point I haven't made that I need to make....I've helped a lot of the same teens that I've spoken about. Many come back to me to thank me for being patient with them......you see, I'm "preachy". I challenge and inspire my students to live better. I've gotten some out of the drug life. I've helped many to stop drinking. I've kept many in school and helped some get into college. A good percentage of my former students are living productive lives. Again, I was and am "preachy". Have to be. Come try to deal with the at-risk kids I encounter on a daily basis. See if some people on this earth need a little religion.

I'll tell you why my reference to Anthony Flew is relevant. Flew happens to be a prominent atheist philosopher. As a liberal Christian, it doesn't bother me at all to read and be challenged by such an outstanding thinker. Some folks paint people interested in religion and religious life as dumb asses, but that kind of sentiment won't hold water. I am not a closed minded fundamentalist. I thought you needed to know that.

As far as the group you mentioned, while I've heard the name, I have never heard of their music. And I'm not embarrassed to admit that. I was a music major in college for two years so I've forgotten more music than the average person has even heard. I prefer the work of Copland, Harris, Russell, etc. to 98% of the "prog" I've heard thus far. And, of course, I listen to pure jazz more than the tainted stuff. 

And this is getting rather boring........I feel like I'm arguing with a teenager. Wait, I am......

I apologize..........I shouldn't have done that.

Edited by bmorgan

eugene wrote: It's very interesting discussion here to read, but back to the topic - no one has mentionned a very interesting and very very christian American band - Akacia. I have one album "An Other Life" by them, which is quite enjoyable listen - good progressive rock with deeply christian lyrics.

 

I have not heard them yet.  Thank for the suggestion.  What style of prog are they, and who might they be related to (in music terms)?

eugene wrote: It's very interesting discussion here to read, but back to the topic - no one has mentionned a very interesting and very very christian American band - Akacia. I have one album "An Other Life" by them, which is quite enjoyable listen - good progressive rock with deeply christian lyrics.

The post-Kansas band, A.D., was a good band in my opinion. Timeline was a good album. Check out Kerry Livgren's website...I think you can purchase some of AD's stuff off there. (I may be wrong.)

You can't go wrong by buying anything with the Livgren name on it....

Thank you doc psykodelia. I will have to go check those bands out.