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King of Loss 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 17080 |
 Posted: May 08 2005 at 19:41 |
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Most Metal bands sound nowhere like Black Sabbath. Only like doomish metal bands sound like Sabbath and they number in the 10's. THEN I GUESS METALLICA IS NOT METAL THEN!!
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 02:35 |
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That's false logic - you're starting with the assumption that Black Sabbath are the band that all metal bands should sound like. You're completely forgetting earlier bands that deserve the retrospective tag, like Blue Cheer. The next statement is false - there are literally hundreds of "doomish" metal bands - depending on your yardstick of what constitutes doomish, and who is and who isn't "doomish". The fact that "doomish" isn't really a genre is by-the-by - I'm assuming that you mean bands with a very "dark" sound, probably including tritones in the riffs and lyrics based on devil worship, witchcraft, illegal sexual practices, etc. To use your false logic, though, your last statement is completely wrong; Black Sabbath wrote riffs based on tritones and lyrics concerning evil, often including drug use. They had long hair and wrote fist-pumping choruses. Metallica wrote riffs based on tritones and lyrics concerning evil and drug use. They had long hair and wrote fist-pumping choruses. Therefore, if Black Sabbath are metal, so are Metallica. The biggest hint is that "Metallica" have the word "metal" in their name...
Edited by Certif1ed |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30456 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 02:45 |
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Dream Theater are a 'prog metal' band just not a very good one.They have always been too conscious of not losing their metal audience while trying to be prog as much as they can.Six Degrees was promising and suggested they could be on the verge of a major breakthrough BUT then Train Of Thought came
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 07 2004 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 3830 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 03:15 |
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Wait, since when is doom about devil worship, witchcraft, and illegal sexual practices? You might be thinking of death/black metal... but doom is much more 'depressed', normally about death, dying, and all that.  Typical doom lyrics: I can't say that I am free as long as they return if I had a way out of here would I then return? they seldom will speak, no they only breathe, slow do they know that I'm afraid, so afraid they depend on my worries, so I know and I'm awake, I'm right in the circle now I am with them there is no way I am going to be free because their hearts, they are similar to mine there is no way they are going to release me from this chain of rows unto our own hearts I can't say that I resist my promises I can't say that I regret, behaving like my enemies I seldom will speak, no I only breathe, ghost I never said they were *good*. :P |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 03:36 |
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I don't know - I was just making assumptions. I don't recognise "doom" as a genre - and those that define it seem to have different opinions on what it is. Same goes for so-called death or black metal. Death were/are a band that played very heavy thrash metal, with riffs based around Black Sabbath-like tritones, and lyrics that had a pre-occupation with death, the dying process and dead matter. Black Metal was an album by Venom. If it is the definition of what black metal should be, then surely no other band deserves membership of that genre, as Venom, spectacularly, could not play any better than, say, the Sex Pistols. The earlier poster seemed to think that Black Sabbath were "doomish", so really I was querying what "doom" meant, and how it was so different from heavy or thrash metal. If doom metal is about death and dying, and "depressed", then I suppose Black Sabbath fit - but then some Marillion lyrics are about death too, and Radiohead can sound very depressing at times...
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Guests
Forum Guest Group 
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Posted: May 09 2005 at 14:03 |
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f**k off |
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: May 09 2005 at 14:05 |
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Changed napkins yet? |
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: May 09 2005 at 14:12 |
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From now on I will not reply to any abusive posts towards me. Go on if you like, but I'm beyond that. Any further personal attacks towards me WILL be reported! I will follow the rules from now on and ignore those who continues to attack and abuse me. I will no longer strike back in the same manner as I've done, simply IGNORE
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 14:15 |
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Are you on some kind of trip? |
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vogre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 189 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 14:33 |
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I am pretty new here, but I've noticed that you keep talking about Dream Theater all the time. It Doesn't really matter if they were the first to make prog-metal, or if they are good or not. The most important part is is they are not the only ones to play in this genre, even in the Images & Words era there were several bands that played in the genre, ad the number has grown later, the music became more diverse and various... And you continue talking about te same old DT... stop it, I mean there were some quality releases even this year, and a topic I made recommending such a band there got no attention at all! That's annoying, and that's a reason to hate Dream Theater(Though everyone has to admit that they've written some fine tunes) |
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 3830 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 14:43 |
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You know what? Go **** yourself. You've got no moral high ground here, you've been one of the biggest instigators on the entire board system, creating pointless arguments where there are none needed, attacking people for their taste, and having no ability to argue. "Strike back"? You generally start it! So screw off. Any mod who looked through your post history would be more like to ban you. Making a "I'm good now, no one can touch me" post SEVEN MINUTES after asking if someone had 'changed napkins' does not put you in the clear. Show us you can be a decent poster, a post like the one quoted above is meaningless in context. |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 17080 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 19:26 |
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
Posted: May 09 2005 at 20:50 |
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I agree! Edited by NetsNJFan |
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 782 |
Posted: May 10 2005 at 00:07 |
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Well, isn't this lovely. A band that polarises people. Or does it have less to
do with the band and more to do with the people 'for' amd 'against' them? Or maybe this arguing is all a scam instigated by DT marketing people trying to get us interested in the music? I think a major source of discontent with this band is that it's the only post-1970s band disturbing the high rankings of the venerable oldies on this site. 'Only there because of the fanboys' -- I can hear it now. There have been so many ridiculous statements about their music (including the one immediately above), both for and against. To my ears, acculturated on 1970s music, they sound an accomplished, sometimes brilliant and sometimes twee and self-indulgent outfit. Which to me is the definition of prog rock! |
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juanvalverde
Forum Groupie 
Joined: May 09 2005 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 42 |
Posted: May 10 2005 at 00:36 |
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Ok, im new to progarchives, and really, i never thought that a band that loves the classic progresive bands and are awesome musicians would receive such hate here. Whats going on guys!? Where is the open mind towards new prog? Even if its not the kind of prog you would like, you have to give them some credit for at least keeping the genre alive in some sort of way. Not that its dead, but come on, you cant live in the past. The 70's are long gone, they were glorious times, great new music, groundbreaking bands, but most of them where groundbreaking because there wasnt prog before them. Today you dont really hear a trully inovative band. In this day and age we need trashy people playing trashy music so it can be called inovative (see nirvana), that is the problem with music these days. I happen to love Dream Theater. I was born in 1978, so i didnt have the privilige that some of you had of living the whole prog movement, but thanx to DT, i got interested in the genre. Just a little over a month ago i decided to buy close to the edge, not knowing what to expect. And i happen to love it (i did own Yes albums by the way). Lately ive been browsing progarchives.com and giving many a bands an oportunity. I listen to them, if i like what i hear, i buy the album; but i dont just go a trash em in the forums. Hey! people love them people dont like them. Thats it! But to go and say a band is trash, that their band members dont know how to play (in this case they happen to be superb musicians) is miopic! I hope you guys learn to listen, make a constructive opinion, post it, and have a nice peacefull discusion.
Bye the way, 10 years ago i bought a Marillion cd, and went on to post a lot of trash about them in a Dream Thetaer forum. People went and almost killed me! They made me see that i was wrong in saying that they sucked, only because i heard a couple of songs. Last week i decided to give them a second oportunity, and guess what? I actually like them! I loved some of their work, i was wrong. I admit it! |
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Dream Theater made me listen to Rush,Yes, ELP, Genesis.. That must count for something!
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henri_ds
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 17 2005 Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Posted: May 10 2005 at 02:59 |
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  Opinionated ass-du-jour says : stick to the classics !  guys like you make me sick. How in the hell can someone be so DUMB,narrow-minded and STUPID in the first place ? **** you, I'm getting tired of it. so, even in your sig, you made it like a day job to hate and bash DT ? You're completely wasting your time. What interest have you in bashing bands ? If you dont like them, just shut the **** up, and dont go waste your time bashing them over the forum. I'm shure you're jealous of their success. Do yourself a favour :  Oh, and for those of you that think that DT is only w**king, what do say about songs like : Wait For Sleep, The Silent Man, Peruvian Skies, Take Away My Pain, Eve, One Last Time, The Spirit Carries On, Disappear, Goodnight Kiss, Vacant..... Finally, the fact that they've covered songs like Pink Floyd's "Echoes" (amazing cover, by the way) simply prove that "they're only about w**king" is completely WRONG. Edited by henri_ds |
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 20 2005 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 2546 |
Posted: May 10 2005 at 03:26 |
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To henri_ds: What a temper tantrum!!! For your information - the instigator of this forum asked why DT was hated so much. I am sure he did not ask for your contribution of absolute abuse to other forum members. If you are such a big DT fan then you give a good reason why myself and many other proggers would dislike DT even more - if you are a representative of their fan base!! A pity really, because DT do have one or two good moments and talented members, but IMO they are not in the same league as the prog rock pioneers of the 70s and YES!! I have listened to them and I think I speak from a well informed opinion of their works. |
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
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henri_ds
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 17 2005 Status: Offline Points: 81 |
Posted: May 10 2005 at 03:36 |
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Maybe he didn't asked for the kind of contribution I just done, but I'm sure he didn't asked either for the tons of DT bashing in those page. more than Half of the people hating them dont have real arguments. I'm NOT representative of their fan base. Is a 60 years old grandaddy representative of the YES fanbase for example ? NO because there are very very different people. You can't generalize a fanbase. Over the mikeportnoy.com forum, you can find some 50 years old people like you cnan find 20 year old people. And of course you can't put them in the same league than bands of the 70s. Just like you can't put recent metal bands in the same league as Iron Maiden or Metallica. But that doesn't mean haters have to waste their time bashing them. and that doesn't mean everything they do sucks. I'm just SOOOOOOO tired about people wasting everybody's time bashing them, you can't imagine. Give us a rest. This guy said it all : "I hope you guys learn to listen, make a constructive opinion, post it, and have a nice peacefull discusion." I get upset because most of you apparently CAN'T make a constructive opinion. Edited by henri_ds |
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Valarius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 08 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1480 |
Posted: May 10 2005 at 03:37 |
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I'm happy to hear that, soon as that's twice now you've told me to f**k off. |
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 20 2005 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 2546 |
Posted: May 10 2005 at 03:48 |
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...So what sort of constructive and intelligent opinion relating to the forum topic do you have??? |
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
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Hating Dream Theater
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King of Loss wrote:
Chill and mind your own goddamned business