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Lindsay Lohan 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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 Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:06 |
 BaldJean wrote:
you have to listen to African music with your ears set to a special mood. the percussion of them is, for example, extremely complicated. did you know that of these long and complicated rhythms, each musican plays only 1 or 2 beats, the rest are played by others, which makes it incredibly complicated? |
And as said before i dont care much for music based mainly on rhytms like forexample STOMP
IMO music is something that has some sort of melody you can hum along to.
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:04 |
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Hah anyway aint it funny if you post about a band that makes really strange and obscure musik like forexample the residensts then everybody will agree that its a great band but if you suddenly turn on dream theater you will get some that is saying that it is great and some that just thinks its bloody awfull...Really strange i cant remember one post about an obscure and strange band that has been negative about it.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:02 |
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you have to listen to African music with your ears set to a special
mood. the percussion of them is, for example, extremely complicated.
did you know that of these long and complicated rhythms, each musican
plays only 1 or 2 beats, the rest are played by others, which makes it
incredibly complicated?
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:02 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Manunkind wrote:
mrzero wrote:
If sweet melodies and, lack of dissonans is wath makes sound as music you have already dismissed the post Schønberg academic music, but also free jazz, indonesian gamelan music, african music, sami yoyk and probably a many more traditional forms of music as not even music. As for music always having to be "nice", I totaly dissagre, I like ugly music, I even admit many of the bands I listen to are Ugly. And I like it |
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I hate african "music"
Im from NORWAY so i guess i have to hate Joik as well
why? because it ain't music...
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Structured sounds are music. End of story.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:01 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Manunkind wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
BaldJean wrote:
by the way, the music of many composers of the past centuries, which for us today sounds perfectly harmonic, was considered to be "bizarre" and "weird" when it first appeared |
New ways of composing will always take some time to appreciate but however there are not all these "experiments" wich has turned out just as nicely
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If it wasn't for experiments, everything, including music, would stagnate. Not all of them are successful, but this is just the price you have to pay if you want to breathe new life into something.
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Yep but there are some bands that are just expermenting too much and then gets non-melodic and when that happens i cant understand why people listen to them
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I agree that some bands sometimes sound as if they just wanted to tell everyone to f*ck off and in the process the structure, feeling, imagination and everything else that constitutes music f*cks off too, leaving only a collection of forced, tired, lifeless or downright psychotic sounds. But I think this is the exception rather than the rule, and that most experiments will appeal to nearly all people willing to devote some time to delving into them.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:57 |
Manunkind wrote:
mrzero wrote:
If sweet melodies and, lack of dissonans is wath makes sound as music you have already dismissed the post Schønberg academic music, but also free jazz, indonesian gamelan music, african music, sami yoyk and probably a many more traditional forms of music as not even music. As for music always having to be "nice", I totaly dissagre, I like ugly music, I even admit many of the bands I listen to are Ugly. And I like it |
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I hate african "music"
Im from NORWAY so i guess i have to hate Joik as well
why? because it ain't music...
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:55 |
Manunkind wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
BaldJean wrote:
by the way, the music of many composers of the past centuries, which for us today sounds perfectly harmonic, was considered to be "bizarre" and "weird" when it first appeared |
New ways of composing will always take some time to appreciate but however there are not all these "experiments" wich has turned out just as nicely
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If it wasn't for experiments, everything, including music, would stagnate. Not all of them are successful, but this is just the price you have to pay if you want to breathe new life into something.
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Yep but there are some bands that are just expermenting too much and then gets non-melodic and when that happens i cant understand why people listen to them
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:55 |
mrzero wrote:
If sweet melodies and, lack of dissonans is wath makes sound as music you have already dismissed the post Schønberg academic music, but also free jazz, indonesian gamelan music, african music, sami yoyk and probably a many more traditional forms of music as not even music. As for music always having to be "nice", I totaly dissagre, I like ugly music, I even admit many of the bands I listen to are Ugly. And I like it |
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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mrzero
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 11 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:53 |
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If sweet melodies and, lack of dissonans is wath makes sound as music you have already dismissed the post Schønberg academic music, but also free jazz, indonesian gamelan music, african music, sami yoyk and probably a many more traditional forms of music as not even music. As for music always having to be "nice", I totaly dissagre, I like ugly music, I even admit many of the bands I listen to are Ugly. And I like it
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:53 |
maidenrulez wrote:
BaldJean wrote:
by the way, the music of many composers of the past centuries, which for us today sounds perfectly harmonic, was considered to be "bizarre" and "weird" when it first appeared |
New ways of composing will always take some time to appreciate but however there are not all these "experiments" wich has turned out just as nicely
|
If it wasn't for experiments, everything, including music, would stagnate. Not all of them are successful, but this is just the price you have to pay if you want to breathe new life into something.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:49 |
BaldJean wrote:
by the way, the music of many composers of the past centuries, which for us today sounds perfectly harmonic, was considered to be "bizarre" and "weird" when it first appeared |
New ways of composing will always take some time to appreciate but however there are not all these "experiments" wich has turned out just as nicely
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:47 |
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by the way, the music of many composers of the past centuries, which
for us today sounds perfectly harmonic, was considered to be "bizarre"
and "weird" when it first appeared
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:47 |
Man Overboard wrote:
BaldJean wrote:
this is in my opinion a weakness and limitation for prog metal, by the
way: there are some moods that just can't be expressed with ultra-fast
and heavy guitars and drums; the only way out for them, if they want to
express these moods, is to use an idiom that is less prog-metallish,
and some prog metal bands indeed use this way out. but strictly
speaking the music is no longer prog metal then
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I wouldn't go that far... a lot of non-prog metal bands utilize
non-heavy, non-distorted parts or even whole songs, and no one accuses
them of not being metal. Hell, doom metal utilizes slow guitar,
violin, cello, and deep, depressing vocals, sometimes that guitar's
even acoustic. Why should prog metal not be allowed to do the
same?
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they should. but these parts are not really "metal"; that's what I wanted to point out
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:45 |
JrKASperov wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Now there are several prog bands that is really great musicans and composers in the prog genre that seems to put in a strange bit in their music that is not melodic at all and it seems that it is just there just because it is strange. And although it might be original it is not melodic and that kind of misses the point then when the purpose of composing music is just to make it as strange and ugly as possible. Now there are several prog bands that do this, and too name a few Van der graaf generator, the residents, magma, gentle giant, the mars volta and so on.
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This argument always comes from 'not understanding' the music.
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That argument is very typical in prog forums...if you just think a band that a band that makes just bloody weird and obscure music that has nothing to do with melody and wich shows clearly a lack of meaning behind it and although original aint very listenable.
Now if you critizise a band like that for their music you alwyas get the argument ah well your music taste is too simple or you just dont understand the music, now however if you critizise dream theater then its just common sense.
My point is i love magma, the residents,van der graaf,gentle giant and tmv and so on BUT there are some moments when these bands just drift off into something that is barely listenable and cannot be defended by the arguments of just trying to make new music
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:41 |
BaldJean wrote:
this is in my opinion a weakness and limitation for prog metal, by the
way: there are some moods that just can't be expressed with ultra-fast
and heavy guitars and drums; the only way out for them, if they want to
express these moods, is to use an idiom that is less prog-metallish,
and some prog metal bands indeed use this way out. but strictly
speaking the music is no longer prog metal then
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I wouldn't go that far... a lot of non-prog metal bands utilize
non-heavy, non-distorted parts or even whole songs, and no one accuses
them of not being metal. Hell, doom metal utilizes slow guitar,
violin, cello, and deep, depressing vocals, sometimes that guitar's
even acoustic. Why should prog metal not be allowed to do the
same?
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JrKASperov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 904
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:39 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Now there are several prog bands that is really
great musicans and composers in the prog genre that seems to put in a
strange bit in their music that is not melodic at all and it seems that
it is just there just because it is strange. And although it might be
original it is not melodic and that kind of misses the point then when
the purpose of composing music is just to make it as strange and ugly
as possible. Now there are several prog bands that do this, and too
name a few Van der graaf generator, the residents, magma, gentle giant,
the mars volta and so on. |
This argument always comes from 'not understanding' the music.
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Epic.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:35 |
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the music should always be fitting for the lyrics (provided there are
some, of course). the artist that is world champion for this is Peter
Hammill (and his band Van der Graaf Generator). even if you did not
understand a word of the lyrics, you would definitely get a hint when
just listening to the music.
this is in my opinion a weakness and limitation for prog metal, by the
way: there are some moods that just can't be expressed with ultra-fast
and heavy guitars and drums; the only way out for them, if they want to
express these moods, is to use an idiom that is less prog-metallish,
and some prog metal bands indeed use this way out. but strictly
speaking the music is no longer prog metal then
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:29 |
Ray Lomas wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Im not saying GG aint melodic im saying that sometimes they have musical parts perhaps 10-20 secods wich aint melodic but just a bit strange.
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Yes, but as I've seen it these 'strange' parts are there to create the atmosphere of the music. 
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Now now i dont say that people should not try to explore new grounds and in many cases like forexample in gentle giants case it actually works very well... It is the cases that does not work so well im worried about.
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Ray Lomas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 187
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:19 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Im not saying GG aint melodic im saying that
sometimes they have musical parts perhaps 10-20 secods wich aint
melodic but just a bit strange. |
Yes, but as I've seen it these 'strange' parts are there to create the atmosphere of the music.
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:15 |
Ray Lomas wrote:
How can anyone think that Gentle Giant is not melodic? 
To my ears there is nothing but melody in GG:s music.
I have only one Magma album and sure for starters it sounded a bit "strange" but after a few listens it started to make sense and I have seen the point in it. Isn't that what's prog all about?
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Im not saying GG aint melodic im saying that sometimes they have musical parts perhaps 10-20 secods wich aint melodic but just a bit strange.
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Whats the point of strange music?
