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The Miracle 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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 Posted: March 21 2006 at 18:48 |
 Cygnus X-2 wrote:
Oh c'mon there's only one real Zappa Doo-Wop album (and it isn't even bad Doo-Wop) is his entire catalogue of 70+ records. |
Lumpy Gravy that is?
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Cygnus X-2
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 24 2004
Location: Bucketheadland
Status: Offline
Points: 21342
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 18:46 |
Oh c'mon there's only one real Zappa Doo-Wop album (and it isn't even bad Doo-Wop) is his entire catalogue of 70+ records.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 18:42 |
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Analog_Kid
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 12 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 31
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:33 |
If humour weren't allowed in music there'd be no Focus!!! 
Hamburger Concerto is in my Top 10 at the mo - Harem Scarem has me laughing every time I play it! So many music jokes, and Van Leer's brilliant vocals!
If prog took itself seriously all the time, it would get boring... well maybe...
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Zepology101
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2006
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 340
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:31 |
Humor SO belongs in songs. you should be able to enjoy listening to music as much as they enjoy writing it.
Zappas is hilarious!
Going to montana... 
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Dr. Occulator
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 04 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 634
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:29 |
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Yeah, he was prolific, but I think the quality of much of his work suffered for it.
(probably why his song titles are often silly; he didn't regard it as quality, just recording a
stream of musical consciousness). Maybe he felt he had to record every musical thought
that came out of his head. Most great artists do use some form of internal quality control.
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My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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lunaticviolist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 17 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 478
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:21 |
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Zappa was a very funny guy, but I wish he would have taken himself a little more seriously sometimes.
Humor does belong in music, but it gets old after awhile.
My friends who like Zappa don't even pay attention to his music, they
just think it's funny that he sings about Titties and Beer.
Certain groups do use humor in their music very well, though (Tull, Genesis).
Edited by lunaticviolist
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My recent purchases:
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:07 |
No.
I don't like Zappa that much either, but of all the people on PA he is probably the only one who was a true composer, in the Bach/Beethoven/Schonberg sense of the word.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Dr. Occulator
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 04 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 634
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 17:03 |
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Just not my cup of tea, bro.
Do I redeem myself if I tell you I love Captain Beefheart?
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My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Manunkind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:59 |
Dr. Occulator wrote:
Intelligent humour is great in lyrics and music. For me Zappa's crude shock humour to make a point about freedom of expression is completly wasted on me. And for that reason I could never take his music seriously. The way I look at it is if he didn't respect his music enough to play it with class and write lyrics which make you think instead of cringing at its crudeness then I'm certainly not going to waste my valuable time trying to enjoy what talent may be hidden. I'll go and listen to someone who takes a little more pride in their work. |
He respected his music enough to a) make it decades more advanced and progressive than 99% of PA and b) to spend countless hours learning to play it and making sure it's played by the best of the best. Any of the musicians he played with would die laughing hearing your claim.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5484
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:38 |
The Wizard wrote:
Another great thing about Zappa was that he took no pride in his work and wasn't pretensious at all about it. He just made whatever he felt like making and didn't care what other people thought about it. He took rick but had fun with it. |
I'm not sure I get that first sentence. While I agree that he had no pretenses about what he did, I doubt that he wasn't proud of his work.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5484
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:35 |
Dr. Occulator wrote:
Intelligent humour is great in lyrics and music. For me Zappa's crude shock humour to make a point about freedom of expression is completly wasted on me. And for that reason I could never take his music seriously. The way I look at it is if he didn't respect his music enough to play it with class and write lyrics which make you think instead of cringing at its crudeness then I'm certainly not going to waste my valuable time trying to enjoy what talent may be hidden. I'll go and listen to someone who takes a little more pride in their work. |
Then I guess he wasn't writing it for you.
Oh well, to each his own.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:28 |
Dr. Occulator wrote:
Intelligent humour is great in lyrics and music. For me Zappa's crude shock humour to make a point about freedom of expression is completly wasted on me. And for that reason I could never take his music seriously. The way I look at it is if he didn't respect his music enough to play it with class and write lyrics which make you think instead of cringing at its crudeness then I'm certainly not going to waste my valuable time trying to enjoy what talent may be hidden. I'll go and listen to someone who takes a little more pride in their work. |
Another great thing about Zappa was that he took no pride in his work and wasn't pretensious at all about it. He just made whatever he felt like making and didn't care what other people thought about it. He took rick but had fun with it.
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Dr. Occulator
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 04 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 634
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:10 |
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Yeah, I heard the orchestra were afraid they might blow it.
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My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:59 |
I bet you're happy you did! The string section passages in that partciular piece were very fluid...
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Dr. Occulator
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 04 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 634
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:53 |
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My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Empathy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1864
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:49 |
So, I assume you boycott Mozart's work as well, for similar reasons?
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Dr. Occulator
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 04 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 634
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:46 |
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Intelligent humour is great in lyrics and music. For me Zappa's crude
shock humour to make a point about freedom of expression is completly
wasted on me. And for that reason I could never take his music
seriously. The way I look at it is if he didn't respect his music
enough to play it with class and write lyrics which make you think
instead of cringing at its crudeness then I'm certainly not going to
waste my valuable time trying to enjoy what talent may be hidden. I'll
go and listen to someone who takes a little more pride in their work.
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My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5484
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:30 |
I think Zappa liked to write lyrics just to shock people. His jokes sometimes missed the mark, particularly in the later years, when many of the references were too "in" for most non-band-members to get. But in a way, I think he was challenging the listener to see past the scatological lyrics and discover the amazing music behind them.
This created the dual fan base that would show up at his concerts: The drunken post-adolescents who would scream out for the band to play "Dinah-Moe-Humm", and the musically astute, who would see the band for it's musical prowess.
On the final tour (sob), Zappa played two shows in Boston. The first night, he played mostly the humor filled songs. The second night, he announced that the show was for the Berklee students in the audience, and the band played an amazing set (including my favorite, Echidna's Arf.
And I like his song about the giant poodle.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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ken4musiq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 446
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:00 |
White Feather wrote:
OK I have tried and tried to understand Zappa , Just to get some kind of idea where he was coming from, but the thing is I have a hard time with his brand of humor ? I mean his musicality is fantastic !!!! But the humor I find to be in contrast with the high caliber chops he and his band display, this leaves me feeling an aversion towards most of the stuff he has recorded.
Am I alone with these thoughts ? does humor belong in music or not ? because it doesn`t seem to work for me, at least not on repeated plays (only my humble opinion )
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Alot of music is satirical and people do not see it like that. Whan Emerson or Jon Lord quote a piece of Bach or Tchaikovsky it is often toungue in cheek. With Zappa you get a lot of toilet humor, which I really do not go in for, perhaps with the exception "Don't You Eat that Yellow Snow." I think that soe musicians could lern a little bit from humor, Fripp comes to mind. Is music better because it is more serious?
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Zappa, Does humor belong in music ???
