Old dog - new tricks

I was born into a prog family. My earliest memories of music were Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, as well as more rock oriented stuff like Paladin, Purple and Zep. At school when everyone was listening to Northern Soul and Motown, I was banging on about the delights of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. Then punk came along and even then I ended up liking the bands with big production values, or who had a sense of the prog about them.

During the 80s, I became disillusioned with prog and it didn't help by repeatedly seeing Genesis live in concert and hoping they live up to their brilliant past and always leaving gigs feeling cheated. Rush were about the only band that stayed with me throughout the 80s and half the 90s.

Over the last ten years, I've rediscovered my prog roots through some of the most unusual areas of music. I see a lot of prog and psyche rock influences in a lot of the shoe gazing bands of the early 90s and when the ambient dance movement got into full swing suddenly there were sweeping instrumentals that brought back memories of Wakeman, Banks, Vangelis; and then the children of the people who grew up listening to prog music started to do their own thing.

I think the diversity of life has meant there is so much more variety of choice to listen to and influences can be heard in the most unlikely of places (someone gave me a copy of a CD called World of Ambient mixed by Jay Burnett - 57 minutes of remixed to death ambient chillout classics - I like some of that music, but couldn't understand why he'd think I'd like this. 38 minutes into the 'track' and I saw that Jay Burnett had mixed parts of Fountain of Salmacis into the music, and, I have to be honest, to very good effect) and I find I have more discussions with my mates about whether or not a certain band has definite prog influences. Prog is as synonymous with general music today as anything else, in fact we've more chance of seeing it really begin to take on new forms and shapes because a new generation are going to be playing with the toys that many of us saw take shape.

I always thought I knew a bit about prog, then I stumbled on this place and discovered that most of everything I knew slotted into tiny corners in about three subsections, but instead of being disheartened, I realised it just backed up what I said in the last paragraph. It even made me wonder if perhaps there might be even more subsections in the future and whether or not albums never before even considered to be prog might have to be re-evalued?

Over the last few years, I've been listening to prog produced by the old dinosaurs, trying to rediscover the old spark, or by their successors attempting to do the same thing with even less balls and I despaired for the genre. I wondered if prog - classic prog - would be consigned to 1970s, but in recent years I've been thoroughly impressed by new bands that have embraced the ethos, but are twiddling with a few different knobs and mixing in different kinds of music - the kinds they feel work.

If this old dog can be impressed by the future of prog then I'm sure others can to.

Phil

Actually, I was thinking about something I said about the influences prog had on ambient instrumental stuff.

It reminded me of something my old man said. There were specific records that really moved him, although not a religious man, he referred to them as 'choir of angels' moments. But, his biggest complaint about these moments was that they never lasted long enough. He'd give examples like Tony Banks or Rick Wakeman moments in records where the synthesiser would simulate an orchestral/Choir sound and I think a lot of the ambient music producers over the last 15 years have taken that moment and extended it. Euphoric has been a term used in relation to this kind of music (I believe) and oddly enough euphoric was one of the words my dad used to describe Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats (on Lamb Lies Down album).

Incidentally, I was having a discussion with a couple of mates at the weekend and we couldn't decide if there was such a thing as Prog Pop. Among the divides were whether prog bands who sell out and go commercial can be called Prop Pop and if a pop group uses prog tendencies should they be applauded or derided?

squonkuk wrote: If this old dog can be impressed by the future of prog then I'm sure others can to. Phil

      From one old dog to another: you've pretty much echoed my sentiments. There are a lot of new bands and it's fun to discover new takes on " our" music.

I, too, am an old dog that pretty much considered progressive rock dead and buried until I discovered this site a few months ago and now I think of it as one of the more positive things that has happened to me this year.  I came across it when it was mentioned in a review on Amazon.  I was a total Yes and Genesis freak in the 70s who also liked ELP and Kansas to some extent.  Then during the 80s I watched MTV eat up the genre and spit it out into neat little 3 minute glimpses.  A few years ago my teenage son suggested Dream Theater to me but, being the musical snob, didn't really listen.  After finding this site and reading intelligent reviews and comments on what turned out to be a whole world of progressive musicians and fans I finally gave in and bought "Scenes from a Memory" and realized that the genre isn't dead at all, just flying beneath the radar.  That band is phenomenal.  For the first time since my 20s I'm buying groups that I'd never heard of and experiencing the joy of discovery again.  I missed it terribly.  I'm now waiting my shipment of albums by Porcupine Tree and Radiohead and pondering buying one from a polish band named Riverside.  Most of my friends (many of which are current or former musicians) have no idea what I'm talking about but that's okay.  Somebody's got to turn them on and it might as well be me.  I hope you take advantage of the song samples you can hear on this site because I find that a great help in deciding who to buy next.  And I'm very pleased to see that the younger generation still has a healthy curiosity and sense of adventure in their rock and roll.  That's what we had in the 70s and we had a blast sharing our discoveries.

A great thread-opener, Squonkuk! I have the same impression as you do; prog is indeed starting to become increasingly interwoven into other fields of music, which only indicates that it has finally come to be seen as this stabilised and more respected form of music (not meant in the more restrictive sense here as progressive rock is very much an entire world of its own!)

The new and upcoming bands and musicians are perhaps discovering the whole prog scene with new eyes and without the mental burden the previous generation carried in their attitude towards it. Classical music and ancient folk music was once the reference points for the prog of early 70s, and now prog has become a reference point to the more adventurous music of today. That's how it goes, I suppose

As for pop-prog, well, the Danish band, Mew, could maybe qualify...

Oh, and I need to look up the kind of ambient dance music you brought up... I missed that particular train as I was well out of touch musically speaking for a large part of the 90s. Could well turn out to be my cup of tea as I've always enjoyed dance oriented music, just not pure, aggressive techno!

Chicapah wrote:

For the first time since my 20s I'm buying groups that I'd never heard of and experiencing the joy of discovery again. I missed it terribly. I'm now waiting my shipment of albums by Porcupine Tree and Radiohead and pondering buying one from a polish band named Riverside.

Ah, dare I say you are in for a real treat! And yes, it's all about the joy of discovery in later years, the joy of realising that new, unheard music can still have that overpowering impact on you... I do not belong to the original prog generation, nor did prog music take a hold of me in my teens. I have discovered progressive music only now, in my thirties, so in that way I can see where you are coming from with regards to having only recently found the interesting new music out there. There's plenty of it, too!

Fritha wrote: As for pop-prog, well, the Danish band, Mew, could maybe qualify...

I was half making a list after I posted that and I included MEW in there almost immediately.

I'd also include Marillion (with Fish and without them, but more with them). I've heard quite a bit of the Chameleons recently and I can see the influences they had and the fact that a lot of bands now are influenced by them.

Someone I was talking about suggested Elbow, but I'm struggling to see the pop connection.

But how about this (and if someone else has suggested it, I apologise, but I'm not about to start going back through every archived forum): Tears For Fears. I was playing a friend one of the tracks from the last album and he agreed with me it sounded more like Yes than Yes have for a few years.

Fritha wrote: Oh, and I need to look up the kind of ambient dance music you brought up... I missed that particular train as I was well out of touch musically speaking for a large part of the 90s. Could well turn out to be my cup of tea as I've always enjoyed dance oriented music, just not pure, aggressive techno!

I just wish I could quote you some examples, but most of the stuff I've picked up over the years has been either taped, downloaded or been given to me with no real info. I think that William Orbit is overlooked, his third and fourth Strange Cargo albums have been copied for a number of my prog die-hard friends.

On a different tangent, I'd recommend a really left field track to anyone fancying something very unusual from an unexpected source. A few years ago, I bought the remastered Carnival of Light by Ride, mainly because I'd heard some really interesting stories about what the band originally had planned for the album and how the record company really didn't think that a prog styled Brit Pop album would go down at all well. On the remaster is one remaining untainted track called "At the End of the Universe" and while it is quite clearly Ride, it is also over 8 minutes long, is split into three obvious sections and if it isn't prog rock then I'll do something outrageous with jelly!

Phil