Yes - Jumping the shark

It all unravelled with Tormato.The greatness just came to an end.Before this Yes gave us years of unsurpassed brilliance.From the groundbreaking Yes Album to Going For the One they delivered.For me Close to the edge is the greatest piece of rock music ever written and conceived.Relayer and Going for the one were great and more recently Magnification was nearly a great Yes album.

Hey Shrinking Violet how are you?

ShrinkingViolet wrote: same here i cannot call the rabin era yes..its american yes not the real yes .  i agree with fragile . the classic line up has retuned yey!!! long live Yes

ARGH  didn't we already do this? Yes has been many things but never American...it's totally unfair and shortsighted to use "American" as shorthand for 'trendy, over-produced pop influence'? Great Britain and Europe in general has always been in the forefront of re-packaging the authentic original US influences in slick, chart-friendly ways; the blues, R&B, soul, rock and roll, punk, grunge (remeber Bush?), house music (okay, Chicago and Detroit House had a lot of German Kraftwerk influence, but they still did house well before Brit DJs caught up and pretended they invented it). Isn't it bad enough that so many people denounce and demean Americans for variously valid reasons, and now we have to go and rewrite history to make up new ones?

OK, I've calmed down now

Fragile wrote: and stop being so sensitive about being American

I would suggest to be SENSITIVE to other people's sensitivities. Prog, meanwhile, belongs to nobody!!! It belongs to people, who love it and understand it. Yes, it's true that majority of the greatest prog was created in GB but if one wants to know how much everyone else contributed--listen to Pavlov's Dog, the band from St.Louis. Or, in the end to Steve Hackett's Frozen Statues from To Watch The Storms--can not get any bluzier and Miles Davies (ier)  than that!!!

Fragile wrote: and Russiandude it makes my eyes water as well the song just  obliterates your emotions.

One of their masterpieces and Steve's guitar and Jon's voice!!!! But, I think the reason U do not like Rabin's period and call it American could be easily put in simple words--what Trevor does there, he plays riffs (Waiting For The Night from 90125, 12590, 12905 etc --never remembered) which is by definition derivative of bluez thinking--and what a great riffs. Creative people should react to the change--and Rabin's time was just that!!! They never compromised on musicmanship which was as usual--awesome!!! Yet, with Fragile being my favorite (not U--album) I still love how they went about it!! Enough to say--I listen to "Talk" in my car constantly!!!!

James Lee wrote: Am I being too sensitive? The term 'american' was used to imply something inauthentic and shallow and therefore less worthy, so I challenged it. I'd be willing to bet I'd get slammed if used the term 'scottish' to mean that something was humorless, intolerant, and rustic in the best Calvinist tradition.

No James, you are not being to sensitive. ShrinkingViolet crossed the line - Period, end of discussion! Shame on Fragile for supporting him - you're both acting like you're 13 yrs old. Never use a label - it's classless to do so and always makes someone angry. If your intention was to make someone angry, over a personal preference, you might want to seriously consider getting medical/psyschological attention (this is not meant as a knock, but rather sincere concern). And, come on, saying that the Isles own Prog is like saying "it's my ball so I make-up the rules". Give your heads a shake and grow up. Start a thread with that arguement instead, if you like.

We get it - you don't like Yes featuring Rabin - fine. You probably don't like Genesis without Gabriel and Hacket. Great. Your definition of good prog is different/narrower than that of others, terrific. It's great music IMHO. The truth of the matter is that in the end you have simply have less music to love.

Was it this sort of crap that eventually led to Peter leaving? (What exactly happened?) I'm new, but looking at some of the old posts it appears that it must of escalated way beyond this...but it, too, probably started with what someone thought was an innocent comment...

P.s. I've seen Yes on three different occaisions (Edge, Drama, 90125) - does this somehow make my opinion more valid?

Violet, I think the point of the contention was your classifying the Rabin ear Yes as "American." I must admit that I was pissed at your statement as well. JFYI, Rabin is from South Africa. Saying that it was pop or commercial is valid, however, America is not the only county where commercial music is played or encouraged. The 80's synth-pop came right out of the UK... I think.

Either way, no harm done, just try not to generalize.