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Snow Dog

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 17:07

Fugazi is a pile of Dingo's...... Wink

I quite like Holidays In Eden.

bhikkhu

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 17:18

Snow Dog wrote:

Fugazi is a pile of Dingo's......

I quite like Holidays In Eden.

I beg to differ my friend. I find myself pulling out "Fugazi" more than any other.

But then, I don't like H. To each his own.

a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com

Snow Dog

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 17:20

bhikkhu wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Fugazi is a pile of Dingo's......

I quite like Holidays In Eden.

I beg to differ my friend. I find myself pulling out "Fugazi" more than any other.

But then, I don't like H. To each his own.

Problem is, I don't like Marillion a great deal nor Fish either. So take my view in that light. No offence intended. Wink

Scapler

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 18:08

Very close to my favorite band, I LOVE Script For a Jester's Tear and Misplaced Childhood.

Fish rocks!

Edited by Scapler - January 08 2007 at 18:08

Bassists are deadly

chessman

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 18:37

Got into them at the time of Script, (a friend of mine, who was also a big Genesis fan, like me, told me to give them a listen, as they were a lot like Genesis), and still rate them highly now.

Most of their albums are good, some are classics, and the odd one is quite disappointing, IMO. (This Strange Engine, Radiation, and (sorry E-Dub) Brave are, for me, disappointing.)

Clutching At Straws is their pinnacle, for me, but Script, Marbles and Afraid Of Sunlight are up there too, with Anoraknophobia, Holidays In Eden, Misplaced Childhood, Fugazi and Seasons End coming in just behind them.

Looking forward to the new album. Not a big lover of Hogarth, but I have to admit he is superb live. (I saw him on the Holidays In Eden tour.)

One of my favourite Neo-prog bands (though they don't like to be thought of as prog these days), just behind Pendragon, and probably equal to Satellite.

E-Dub

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 20:14

chessman wrote:

Got into them at the time of Script, (a friend of mine, who was also a big Genesis fan, like me, told me to give them a listen, as they were a lot like Genesis), and still rate them highly now.

Most of their albums are good, some are classics, and the odd one is quite disappointing, IMO. (This Strange Engine, Radiation, and (sorry E-Dub) Brave are, for me, disappointing.)

Looking forward to the new album. Not a big lover of Hogarth, but I have to admit he is superb live. (I saw him on the Holidays In Eden tour.)

One of my favourite Neo-prog bands (though they don't like to be thought of as prog these days), just behind Pendragon, and probably equal to Satellite. [IMG]height=17 alt=Clap src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif" width=18 align=absMiddle>

No worries. I know Brave isn't for everyone.

In all honesty, it didn't click with me either in the beginning. As a matter of fact, I remember sampling it at my local record store and turning my nose up at it. Afraid Of Sunlight grabbed me from the beginning. I took a day off from work to paint our upstairs and had it cranked over the stereo after a buddy sent me a burned copy of it. Fell in love with it instantly.

E




Edited by E-Dub - January 08 2007 at 20:18

bhikkhu

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 20:26

E-Dub wrote:

chessman wrote:

Got into them at the time of Script, (a friend of mine, who was also a big Genesis fan, like me, told me to give them a listen, as they were a lot like Genesis), and still rate them highly now.

Most of their albums are good, some are classics, and the odd one is quite disappointing, IMO. (This Strange Engine, Radiation, and (sorry E-Dub) Brave are, for me, disappointing.)

Looking forward to the new album. Not a big lover of Hogarth, but I have to admit he is superb live. (I saw him on the Holidays In Eden tour.)

No worries. I know Brave isn't for everyone.

O.K., I'll bite. "Brave" does show their talents, but there is not much variation to the overall sound. It just doesn't appeal to me. Might I find "Afraid of Sunlight" more to my liking, or should I just let it go?

a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com

Man With Hat View Drop Down

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 22:15

Best Neo Prog you can find.

Their first five are fantastic. Especially that Fish era. But the H-era comes up with a nice "surprise" every once in a while.

Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.

E-Dub

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 22:57

bhikkhu wrote:

E-Dub wrote:

chessman wrote:

Got into them at the time of Script, (a friend of mine, who was also a big Genesis fan, like me, told me to give them a listen, as they were a lot like Genesis), and still rate them highly now.

Most of their albums are good, some are classics, and the odd one is quite disappointing, IMO. (This Strange Engine, Radiation, and (sorry E-Dub) Brave are, for me, disappointing.)

Looking forward to the new album. Not a big lover of Hogarth, but I have to admit he is superb live. (I saw him on the Holidays In Eden tour.)

No worries. I know Brave isn't for everyone.

Man, it never amazes me how two people hear the same piece of music differently. I thing Brave ebbs and flows both sonically and emotionally. How "Bridge" just sort of oozes in for a brief moment until giving away to Rothers chiming the intro to "Living With The Big Lie", which is where Brave just cuts right through you for the first time, but certainly not for the last.

Another brilliant moment is Hogarth's strained vocals at the end of "Hard As Love", but the flames are cooled by the hauntingly beautiful "Hollow Man". I've heard a member say here and there that H's vocals on Brave show no emotion; whereas, I hear nothing but pure emotion from the beginning all the way through to "Made Again".

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just two people hearing two completely different things.

They say listen to Brave at a high volume with the lights down. Also, watching the Brave Live DVD isn't bad either.

First of all, maybe strip away any preconceived biasness against Hogarth. I'm afraid if you don't like him in the first place, it may taint your opinion of Afraid Of Sunlight. I mean, I'm guilty of that, too. I'm not the biggest Ian Anderson fan in the world, which is why I don't listen to Jethro Tull.

Sonically, It's the equivalent of being startled from the intensity of Brave and bringing your heart rate back down with Afraid Of Sunlight. After the first couple of songs ("Gazpacho" and "Cannibal Surf Babe") the listener slips into a meditative state with "Beautiful", "Afraid Of Sunrise", "Out Of This World", "Afraid Of Sunlight", "Beyond You", until your senses are shaken with "King". As mellow as Afraid Of Sunlight is, it's equally beautiful, emotional, painful, and ethereal. I actually think it's Hogarth's finest vocal performance on any given Marillion album and almost as good as Brave. H's vocals on "Beautiful" alone are worth it.

If you don't mind taking a chance, I'd say pick it up. It really is a great album.

E

verslibre

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Posted: January 08 2007 at 23:31

bhikkhu wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Fugazi is a pile of Dingo's......

I quite like Holidays In Eden.

I beg to differ my friend. I find myself pulling out "Fugazi" more than any other.

But then, I don't like H. To each his own.

Ditto, ditto...

eBay

bhikkhu

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Posted: January 09 2007 at 00:40

E-Dub wrote:

bhikkhu wrote:

E-Dub wrote:

chessman wrote:

Got into them at the time of Script, (a friend of mine, who was also a big Genesis fan, like me, told me to give them a listen, as they were a lot like Genesis), and still rate them highly now.

Most of their albums are good, some are classics, and the odd one is quite disappointing, IMO. (This Strange Engine, Radiation, and (sorry E-Dub) Brave are, for me, disappointing.)

Looking forward to the new album. Not a big lover of Hogarth, but I have to admit he is superb live. (I saw him on the Holidays In Eden tour.)

No worries. I know Brave isn't for everyone.

That's why I always go to you for this stuff buddy.

a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com

toolis

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Posted: January 09 2007 at 01:45

i love them... i have all their albums up to This Strange Engine plus Anoraknophobia...

Fish is a musical genius but he is the kind of guy who would ruin everything cause his ego is bigger than his band.. i'm not judging but i am...

Hogarth is great too.. i absolutely adore his voice and his work and find H's era stuff beautiful by all means...and it's true, most of that stuff isn't that prog but who cares? it's great music and that's what counts...

by the by, i recently bought Anoraknophobia and can't stand that U2-ish sound in it, not cause i don't enjoy it but i wouldn't expect sth like it from Marillion...so, it's kind of depriving me of sinking into it... naaah, probably it;s my fault, i might just be that shallow...

-music is like pornography...

sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...

-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...

richardh

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Posted: January 09 2007 at 03:01

Are (were) Marillion really a neo prog band?

It seems to me that the first album and maybe the second were closer to symphonic prog while Misplaced Childhood and Clutching At Straws were pop/prog bordering on art rock.Their only real neo prog album is Seasons End when the 2 eras of the band collided.Hogarths less theatrical vocals allowed the sound to settle while the band concentrated on longish straight forward peices with atmosphere and intellegent lyrics.This album pre dated IQ's 'Ever' by 3 years.To me IQ represent neo prog perfectly and took on the ideas started by Marillion and honed them..later leading to The Seventh House in 2000.

As for Marillion well after Seasons End they went back to a poppish straight rock approach on Holidays End before gradually turning into something that is more akin to art rock than neo prog.I wonder if the labelling of them is confusing?

Certif1ed

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Posted: January 09 2007 at 04:00

richardh wrote:

Are (were) Marillion really a neo prog band?

They pretty much define what Neo Prog is - they were the "figurehead" band of the whole movement!

richardh wrote:

It seems to me that the first album and maybe the second were closer to symphonic prog

Depends how you define symphonic prog - I don't hear anything particularly symphonic about the first 2. It's clearly a new (ie Neo) Prog sound, style and lyrical realisation to me.

richardh wrote:

while Misplaced Childhood and Clutching At Straws were pop/prog bordering on art rock.

Art Rock is a non-specific genre of which Progressive Rock is a subgenre. You could call MC Art Rock - but why bother, when it's so clearly Prog Rock of whatever species you care to subgenre-ise it under.

I always thought that MC was a retrograde step back towards "Classic" prog with a couple of hit singles buried in it.

If you heard Marillion perform the album live, you'd realise that the famous single that I won't name got the full treatment for the album - it fitted in and sounded far more proggy live.

It's not pop/prog any more than any other prog album with a couple of hit singles on, e.g. "In The Court of the Crimson King".

richardh wrote:

Their only real neo prog album is Seasons End

How do you work that out?

"Seasons End" sounds less like Neo Prog than any of their first 3, as does "Clutching..."

richardh wrote:

when the 2 eras of the band collided.Hogarths less theatrical vocals allowed the sound to settle while the band concentrated on longish straight forward peices with atmosphere and intellegent lyrics.This album pre dated IQ's 'Ever' by 3 years.To me IQ represent neo prog perfectly and took on the ideas started by Marillion and honed them..later leading to The Seventh House in 2000.

Not really - IQ were pretty much stuck with the "classic" Prog sound when they started out - they evolved their own Neo sound and style, but long after Marillion. Twelfth Night are a far better representation of Neo-Prog - and predate Marillion (without the Sil...).

richardh wrote:

As for Marillion well after Seasons End they went back to a poppish straight rock approach on Holidays End before gradually turning into something that is more akin to art rock than neo prog.

Art Rock is a non-specific genre of which Progressive Rock is a subgenre.

I don't really like "Seasons End", and have listened to it roughly twice - it does sound like a straightforward pop/rock album on a casual listen. However, if I know the Marillion guys, there are probably lots of cunning details in the writing that I've overlooked on my initial hearing - so I'll reserve judgement until I've listened to it.

richardh wrote:

I wonder if the labelling of them is confusing?

You bet - as you can see, most labelling is confusing when the labels themselves are next to meaningless, ie poorly defined.

I have my own, more precise and accurate definitions, but, sadly, few seem willing to share them.

It doesn't matter though - everyone has their own at the end of the day.

Talking of definitions, has anyone seen the revised Typical Characteristics of Progressive Rock on Wikipedia recently?

Feel free to start a thread on them - you'll never guess who submitted them...

I'll finish the job soon - then I'll move onto the subgenres

Edited by Certif1ed - January 09 2007 at 04:06

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Intruder

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Posted: January 09 2007 at 04:16

Not a fan but respect their direction and chops....I've only heard their first few and, like many, I see them as a bit too derivative of the latter first wave of prog. I'd much rather listed to Duke or even Abacab than even my most highly regarded Marillion records.

I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....

Prog-jester View Drop Down

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Posted: January 09 2007 at 04:29

Freak wrote:

... the stunning "The Party"...

that's one of my favouritest from H's era.What a lyrics!
You missed "Splintering Heart","1000 Nights" and "Dry Land" - a bit sentimental one,but it has awesome video-version!

Still my favourite from H's era is "Seasons End".Ver FISHy-melancholical,with such brilliant like "BERLIN" (my favouritest song from H's era,the most emotional one),"The Space","Seasons End" and "Easter"(poor video,but awesome song).I love "Seasons End" miles more than "Clutching at Straws",the only Fish-era release I would rate lower than 5 or 4 stars

Certif1ed

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Posted: January 09 2007 at 04:53

Intruder wrote:

Not a fan but respect their direction and chops....I've only heard their first few and, like many, I see them as a bit too derivative of the latter first wave of prog.

Out of interest, in what way do you hear them as "derivative of the latter first wave of prog"?

Can you give examples?

(and don't try telling me that Fish sounds like Gabriel, because I won't believe you

)

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

toolis

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Posted: January 09 2007 at 05:31

Marillion are probably the only band that even they were distancing from prog from LP to LP, i didn't get mad at them...au contraire, i respected them even more and that's because of their great music, so i don't mind participating in a discussion about how really prog are or not...

still, i see that it may be important for some fans, but when it comes to good msuic, what difference does it make, guys?

-music is like pornography...

sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...

-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...

Norbert

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