Is Prog For Musicians Only?

TheLamb wrote: Chus, Technical dosen't mean cold... neither does being slow mean you are emotional :P Lots of Jazz gods are technically brilliant and also emotionally great... I don't say DT are cold because they are technically brilliant... Its just because they are kinda cold IMO. There are many people especially in Jazz who have both technique and emotion... Hiromi Uehara, John McLaughlin, basically all the Jazz-Fusion artists... and of course Charlie Parker and his contemporary straight forward bebop people :P   If you like Jazz, you probably like Thelonious Monk... That guy was far from a technical master... infact he was pretty mediocre... as a pianist.... but he was nonethless a genius, dont you think?...   Technique Can go hand in hand with emotion... no one said otherwise... But sometimes using technique in certain ways makes music sound cold... and cold music can be apprecaited to more extent by musicians... because they understand whats going on... thats all Im saying...

I never meant to imply that being a technically proficient player will somehow make you record only cold technical music. Like was said there are some amazing jazz artists who play with alot of emotion and skill. Coltrane is a perfect example, the guy was a technical monster but he didnt feel the need to show it at every chance he got. The best virtuosos are the ones who can step back and add to the overall feel to the music, instead of just showing how proficient they are and overtaking the music. It really depends on the person, if you're not a very creative person you might use your talent as a crutch (see: Yngwie Malmsteen)or you may use your talent towards brilliant and innovative music, without feeling the need to always show how fast you can play. See: Steve Hillage, Chris Cutler, Eric Dolphy, Tony Williams, Robert Fripp, David Jackson, Guy Evans, Charles Mingus... the list goes on and on.

As for the topic at hand.. people enjoy music in many different ways, some people get alot out of the technical side of music, and some people enjoy the obscurity of not knowing what the musicians are doing, simply getting lost in the sound and atmosphere. Prog is for everyone.

To me, being a "musician" requires no further qualifications than the attempt to make music. This can range from simply banging pots and pans together, to Ramones style minimalism, to jazz virtuosity without an active understanding of theory, to Horiwitzian prowess of both the intellectual and physical aspects of music. Your instrument can be a laptop or even an orchestra itself (many great composers, such as Berlioz, didn't play instruments, or at least not well.)
To say you have to the underlying principles of music and be a virtuoso to be aa "musician" is, to me, elitist and wrong.

TheLamb wrote: Whoever says to be a musician requires Knowledge in Theory is just a not very serious person... I study classical piano since a very young age. I practice 10 hours a day when I have the time... Believe me, I know a hella lotta theory and It has helped me in the technical part of composing and improvising, but music is all about spirit, and feeling what your doing... Not knowing everything... If you are as talented as a rat and you study theory like crazy does that does not make you a musician... To tell you the truth, someties I feel I would have done better off without theory... Whoever says Jimmy Hendrix is not a musician is just unworthy of... listening to music in general.   As for Prog.... It depends which type of prog... Bands like Dream Theater could be farther appreciated by Musicians because their music sometimes seems cold and mathy... technical, even scientific. If you understand the theory and technical aspect of what they are doing it just gives you an edge on people who don't... where as bands who are more atmospheric and warm, who use complexity and "proginess" to actually create an atmosphere rather than a very impressive piece, DT style... these bands could be basically appreciated by anyone...     Of course i am makng bold generalizations, and don't start being narrow minded about this post, nothing is 100%. there are always exceptions... in everything...

How could you know anyways? How can one know how someone else experinces music? Its sortof silly......

Floydian42 wrote: Can we just settle on the Prog expirience is enhanced if your a musician?

Whoever says to be a musician requires Knowledge in Theory is just a not very serious person... I study classical piano since a very young age. I practice 10 hours a day when I have the time... Believe me, I know a hella lotta theory and It has helped me in the technical part of composing and improvising, (no but music is all about spirit, and feeling what your doing... Not knowing everything... If you are as talented as a rat and you study theory like crazy does that does not make you a musician... To tell you the truth, someties I feel I would have done better off without theory... Whoever says Jimmy Hendrix is not a musician is just unworthy of... listening to music in general. 

Edited by TheLamb - March 11 2007 at 11:50

As a auspicious guitarist, I belive those who play an instrument will be able to indentify with the music, especially the instrument he/she plays, to a greater extent than a person who does not play an instrument. 

Atavachron wrote: Chus wrote: con safo wrote: okJimi Hendrix was not a musician?    GREAT guitar player and bluesman, but I wouldn't know if he had enough understanding of music theory to be called musician per se.

He's right, you know.  I doubt he knew a whole lot if anything about music.

con safo wrote: Trickster F. wrote: I am still surprised why most are not only absolutely sure, but even insist that skill of playing an instrument is the main aspect of playing prog. Surely there must be something more important to it, don't you think? Yes, like creativiy and song writing ability. What tends to bug me about alot of prog fans is that they put musical technicality above those things. They tend to judge music on how complex or fast it is. In fact, you don't have to be a musician to appreciate good music, you don't even have to much of a musician to make music - some of the simplest music is the most effective. As for musicians being close minded - i see it alot too, i think its the "if i can play it its not very good" mentality. . I'd rather a band practice some degree of subtlety rather than just bashing you over the head with complexity and fast playing (See: Dream Theater )