Is Prog For Musicians Only?

Are drummers really knowers of music meaning or anything linked to the aprehension of musical notes....drummers are almost the same as singers that dont compose , mostly.

The T wrote: prog is for whoever has the f**king desire to listen to it...   now, if you're a musician, you are likely to be able to give more "educated" comments about the music, because you have better tools to approach the task... but that doesn't mean a musician will have better taste, be more intelligent or have the authority to judge other person's tastes.... in fact, the more educated a person is, the less likely he/she is to say arrogant nonsense as "you don't get it"...

Atomic_Rooster wrote: In response to The Progtologist: LOL Dont take that seriously, I was using hyperbole to emphasize how moronic and elitist some prog fans are about their music... its satire

In response to The Progtologist:

LOL

Dont take that seriously, I was using hyperbole to emphasize how moronic and elitist some prog fans are about their music... its satire


Edited by Atomic_Rooster - March 15 2007 at 13:02

Ok, you got me. I don't know my jazz history. But my point was, that there are plenty of "unschooled" musicians who know which scales to play over chords without having studied it formally.

Atomic_Rooster wrote: To answer the initial question: Yes you must be a musician to listen to prog music, otherwise you automatically don't get it, just like you have to be a moderately good composer to listen to classical music and a moderately good dance to listen to techno, and this is by birth, you cant just learn how to do something and listen to music, cuz then you would be a poser and a loser, also you have to be moderately good at smelling bad to listen to punk, and moderately stoned to listen to ambient Its just how the world works, so all you non-musician progfan posers should go back to the default that everyone is free to listen to by birth, BRITNEY SPEARS

Miles was born into a relatively wealthy family where jazz and bllues were frowned upon (partuicularly by his mother). When Davis began his study of the trumpet at age 9 with a man named Elwood Buchanan in St. Louis, classical music was primarily what he was taught (clean, clear tone with no vibrato; a sound that, interestingly, became his "jazz" trademark). This education naturally included scales and basic theory.   He continued in St. Louis with a jazz player named Clark Terry before moving to New York to attend The Juliard School.

The Juliard audition would have required COMPLETE proficiency in sight reading and scales along with secure knowledge of form (classical) and basic theory. Julliard was under the direction of John Erskine (1944) and William Schuman (after 1945), both of whom are rigorusly trained classical composers and musicians. Miles stayed at Julliard for about 18 months but the classical focus did not suit him and he eventually headed off into the NY jazz scene. So just like you did a couple of years ago, Miles Davis once sat in a freshman theory class and learned what you are (hopefully) learning.

So yes, there is no doubt whatsoever that he absolutely DID get his knowledge by sitting down with a book and by taking classes. However like all the truly great musicians throughout history he used his unique, God-given gift to ehnace that book-learning. Miles had nearly 10 years of lessons, study and formal training under his belt before he made his first recordings in the fall of 1945.

Davis' fusion recordings were influenced by Karlheinz Stockhausen. Listen to Miles' On The Corner and then listen to Gesang der Jünglinge; you won't really hear the similarities on the surface because Miles wasn't listenting or using intuition. He was studying the scores and digging into what made them work, and applying those concepts to his own music. You simply don't take on Stockhausen at that level without a fully functioning musical education. Iintuition will tell you little or nothing about Stockhausen.

Miles was a band leader from that late 40's till the end of his career. His bands played from charts (sheet music). Miles was responsible for the preparation of those charts. This knowledge and skill is likewise, not intuition-based.

If you're going to make this type of unsubtantiated statement you really should do your homework rather than simply picking a name out of a hat. I am not implying anything. I am stating the facts of Miles Davis' musical education.

If you like Miles Davis and believe he is a musical genius that's great; I'm with you on that. In that case you should celebrate the hard work and book-learning that went into making him great.

This poses an interesting question. Why is it that so many of us want our heroes to have gained their skill through magic rather than hard work and study? Does it excuse our laziness or take our own failings "off the hook?"

My original point, however, was simply that some formal music education enhances the listening experience for all kinds of music. It is not necessary for enjoying music, but it does add aspects of enjoyment that are not possible without it. Prog came into being at a time when a much larger percentage of the general population (I'm talking about the US here, I don't nkow the stats for Europe and South America) had at least some formal training. This, I believe made listeners more open to music that challenged them, and that encompassed a variety of styles. As the level of music education dropped so did the popularity of Prog-Rock. It obviously wasn't the only factor in Prog's late 70's slide, but it did play a part in Prog's rise in the late 60's.

Edited by Trademark - March 15 2007 at 11:29

To answer the initial question: Yes you must be a musician to listen to prog music, otherwise you automatically don't get it, just like you have to be a moderately good composer to listen to classical music and a moderately good dance to listen to techno, and this is by birth, you cant just learn how to do something and listen to music, cuz then you would be a poser and a loser, also you have to be moderately good at smelling bad to listen to punk, and moderately stoned to listen to ambient

Its just how the world works, so all you non-musician progfan posers should go back to the default that everyone is free to listen to by birth, BRITNEY SPEARS

Atavachron wrote: This thread is getting ugly and should probably be closed soon..

Ghostnote wrote:       I am a drummer, who has loved progressive rock for many years and i have noticed that myself and other musicians i haved jammed with over the years can relate with this style of music, but people who do not play a musical instrument do not.      So ultimitly is prog rock for musicians only?