Prog Related.... just ...what is 'related' - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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micky

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 16:52

no problem.... LOL

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Easy Livin View Drop Down

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 17:17

Certif1ed wrote:

Easy Livin wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

cynthiasmallet wrote:

it's a pretty bizarre and vague genre to be honest. I mean surely the likes of Bach and Beethoven are prog related?

First of all, it is NOT a genre, because the bands or artists included in PR don't all share the same basic musical features as, for instance, the bands in Jazz/Rock or Symphonic. As Bob said, being related to prog can mean many things - which I suppose you could call being 'vague'.

As to Bach and Beethoven, I suppose you could say they are, because they've influenced the development of prog, just like Ravel, Stravinsky, Miles Davis and a lot of other musicians.

The fundamental difference with the classical composers is that they are not performers. The way the site is set up, it is based on performers, not composers. We would not for example add Lennon/McCartney, but we do have The Beatles.

Actually, Bob, that's not true - ALL Classical composers were superlative performers - Mozart, notably, impressed the King of England with his playing aged only 10 years, Beethoven would improvise for fun at parties, simply because he was the best, and Bach spent most of his non-writing hours improvising.

There also exist some rather wonderful recordings of Joplin and Brahms playing their own works.

er... now I read your post again, you do say "They are not performers...", rather than were...

I guess at best their own performances of their music might be called demos.

If we listed them as artists, I guess we could only include the rare recordings you mention. The orchestral versions would need to go under tributes.

micky

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:08

to be honest... I think going classical is bit overboard as far as addtions .... that is something much more suitable for 'prog blogging' (that is what we have the section for isn't it?) for those who really want to promote those artists and their relation to prog rock.

Edited by micky - November 14 2007 at 19:08

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Tony R

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:19

micky wrote:

ahhhh..... how about Rachmaninofff then LOL

composer, performer, ...and very prog hahahha Wink

but not "Rock"

...people lose sight of this requirement. There are bands/artists on Prog Archives who most definitely have nothing to do with rock music and to me their inclusion is more controversial than the addition of the likes of Led Zep and The Who in a non-Prog category..

micky

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:20

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Tony R

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:20

Repeat after me every one:

Prog ROCK
Prog ROCK

ad inf...

since when was classical music Rock music?

This site is getting crazier and crazier... Wacko

micky

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:23

Prog Rock..... Prog Rock.....Prog Rock..... Prog Rock..... Prog Rock...

there..

thanks Tony...I owe you one buddy Heart

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sircosick

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:25

Tony R wrote:

micky wrote:

ahhhh..... how about Rachmaninofff then LOL

composer, performer, ...and very prog hahahha Wink

Is the rock component a needed requirement to be prog? What about progressive electronic? Ouch

The best you can is good enough...

micky

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:33

damn...I just won a free dinner at Taco Belll... had bet myself 10 minutes before someone brought up progressive electronica.

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Dean

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:34

^ what was the first prize?

What?

micky

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:35

darqdean wrote:

^ what was the first prize?

a night out on the town with the clown prince of PA's LOL

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Atavachron View Drop Down

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:39

sircosick wrote:

Is the rock component a needed requirement to be prog? What about progressive electronic? Ouch

I've always felt ProgElectronic - like certain other categories here - to be good bedfellows with prog rock but not necessarily a part or subsection of it.. it was around during the same period and features many of the same emphases, and though not rock, they like each other. Can't really say that about classical.. the 20th century composers would have more my support, but even that would be a stretch.. besides, most know or can tell prog was classically influenced

Tony R

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:40

sircosick wrote:

Tony R wrote:

micky wrote:

ahhhh..... how about Rachmaninofff then LOL

composer, performer, ...and very prog hahahha Wink

Is the rock component a needed requirement to be prog? What about progressive electronic? Ouch

it's certainly food-for-thought isnt it?

It is called Prog-Rock for a reason..... Wink

Tony R

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:42

To be fair, I know that Philippe is very mindful of this and has certainly rejected some very adventurous and worthy electronic artists because of this lack of connection to rocknroll...

micky

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 19:43

Tony R wrote:

To be fair, I know that Philippe is very mindful of this and has certainly rejected some very adventurous and worthy electronic artists because of this lack of connection to rocknroll...

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

ghost_of_morphy View Drop Down

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Posted: November 14 2007 at 20:14

sircosick wrote:

Prog related is already added and they won't take it off...... so, the only thing to debate IMO is how does it work as a "strategy" (as Bob said) to get them hooked to prog.

Or we could look at in exactly the opposite way. This site caters to prog afficianados and it would be only natural to host information that would be of interest to some of them despite the act being mentioned not being pure prog.

A clear example would be Phil Collins, where people would show interest in learning what he has been up to after Genesis, how people evaluate that body of work, and how it differs from prog.

Just lots of differing ideas pop into peoples' minds when you mention prog related. The need for better guidance on the subject is pretty clear.

Not to mention the need to get people to realize that being prog-related does not put an act on the same elevated platform as that of their favorite prog bands.

Easy Livin View Drop Down

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Posted: November 15 2007 at 03:30

Would there be any merit in setting up a specific section of the forum for classical msuic, its influences on prog, and how it has been used by prog bands?

I'm thinking along the lines of a section where new threads can only be started by an admin. We would have one thread for each relevant composer. We could call the section something like "Classical music in prog".

Raff

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Posted: November 15 2007 at 03:42

I would like to offer another suggestion as regards classical music, though I think having a forum section for it would be an excellent idea. As I once said in a discussion in the Collabs zone, I believe that having an essay, or a series of essays (perhaps presented as 'work in progress', which could be accessed directly from the home page) on the topic of classical influences in the development of prog would be a really innovative, high-quality addition to the site.

Certif1ed

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Posted: November 15 2007 at 03:59

Easy Livin wrote:

[

I guess at best their own performances of their music might be called demos.

I don't understand - why would they be demos?

That suggests that the composers' own performance of their own music is not up to someone else's interpretations - and where does that leave the Prog bands on this site?

Are we saying that tribute bands are necessarily better?

...words are such slippery things

I like the idea of a Classical section - I think it should include only the WORKS that influenced prog - since many composers are noted for significant works;

e.g. Orff's "Carmina Burana", Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man", Holst's "The Planets", Stockhausen's "Kontakte" and Varese's "Poeme Electronique" - but generally not the entire bodies of work and compositional styles.

There is a definite Progressive Music slant to this site, which allows for electronic music, jazz and folk - but "Prog-Related" is quite clearly not necessarily Prog OR Rock.

It's not "Prog-Related ROCK", It's "Prog ROCK-related".

"Four legs good, two legs better".

George Orwell.

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: November 15 2007 at 08:01

Not to get carried away, but maybe a similar jazz section too? The idea being that progressive rock is a combination of rock, "classical" music and jazz.
It could be layed out on the home page in a way that introduces progressive rock as containing those three elements.