I am upset. Here's why (progressive elitism):

stonebeard wrote: King Crimson776 wrote: Most obscure bands suck, think about it. People try to like it because it's obscure. I remember this thread about bands like Family and Flash and sh*t, and this guy was like, "Dood, Flash is better than Yes." and I'm like . Seriously sometimes I get elitist feelings toward the pseudoheads who purposefully listen to obscure music because of it's obscurity, even when it sucks. I'm like, dude, you forgot about good music. I think I understand your sentiment, but I don't think "most obscure bands suck." To you they may, but you can't say something like that without expect a huge backlash.I used to wonder whether some proggers listen to obscure music just to say they listen to obscure music. (I don't really care anymore now to wonder actively). I think this is the case to a degree in all prog fans. We get that little extra kick of liking something few other people do. Some people perhaps take it to an extreme, repeatedly listening to something at first unpleasant just to eventually say they like something very few people do.

SGM anyone?

heyitsthatguy wrote: I loved SGM from first listen and I am by NO means a hipster

I don't doubt it, some people like it because it's weird. That's cool. The people I'm talking about are those who try to like it because it's obscure and seems like something that has more worth than more mainstream stuff.

Edited by King Crimson776 - November 25 2007 at 03:17

Why did "you" (who is "you" by the way") delete my wording on my review for "Fear of a Blank Planet " by Porcupine Tree in which I said it was awesome etc etc.. and I thought that "Anaethetise" was the best rock track since "Stairway to Heaven"???

Stonas is so right. I have myself almost gone totally away from the elitist behavious i now realised i used to make myself guilty of.
I guess that is the case for many newbies, they hear about prog and progarchives, and from being into a band like Pink Floyd, they suddenly find this whole world of music and very soon their collections will include a large amount of tech-metal, post-rock, avant-garde and even sometimes Noise.

Which i think is all good and well, i guess it's a way to express yourself and to find your personal musical direction.

I find that life just gets more enjoyable when you stop hating so much. When you disregard a whole genre of music at once, you miss out on one side of life. And, what's more, you don't have to go around parading how much you have it. It's pretty useless. Think it, don't say it... peace! :)

"Vanity is definitely my favorite sin".

I think that most of the elitism boils down to simple vanity. People go around talking about their latest "discoveries", and sometimes it seems like they're only mentioning them to "out-class" the others ("you're listening to ...? That's pretty lame, compared to my latest discovery which is so rare and only known to an enlightened circle of devoted fans".).

Another bad example of elitism is the constant quest for experimentality that some users seem to be on ... the more experimental the better. When you take a closer look at the music, try to play it yourself *and* compose new music yourself you'll find that it's actually much more difficult to come up with inventive and original melodic music than with some experimental stuff - or in other words: It relatively easy to make your music seem to be experimental but quite challenging to write interesting music which follows established rules of composition. A good example would be unusual time signatures. Of course you can try to avoid 4/4 completely, any part in 4/4 can be easily altered to 7/8 or 9/8 ... or you can use phrygian mode where people would expect aeolian mode, making a part sound oriental and mystic. You can add extreme distortion and juxtapose it with acoustic guitar part to make your music more dynamic, add growling vocals because that's the latest fashion etc..

My point is: All these things are often more or less only embellishments which only make the music *appear* to be more experimental ... they're often superficial and add nothing to the substance. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on where you're standing) music is much more difficult to judge ... in all styles of music there's good and bad, and we cannot separate one from the other by style. I also think that this is the true definition of open mindedness in terms of music ... the broader the range of styles is in which you find good music, the more open minded you are. It doesn't mean you have to like everything ... far from it. It rather means that your judgement is not affect by superficialities and preconceptions. 


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - November 25 2007 at 07:42

If it exists, and I'm not sure it consciously does, I think this elitism is a good thing.  Think about it.  Were it not for being challenged by the tastes of others, I might still be listening to my favorite bands exclusively. 

When I came here I  had little knowledge of Rio, Prog-metal, or Italian.  Thank God these so called elitists kept pulling my attention away from Dave Gilmour so I was ever-so-gently encouraged to try Semiramis, Agalloch, Miasma, Pain of Salvation, etc.

This is a good thing, getting out of our comfort zones and trying new bands.  I am awed that there are some 16 year old kids here with vastly more knowledge about certain "difficult" bands than I, and the fact that they talk about these bands and might be dismissive of DT or talk about Floyd as "old hat" doesn't offend me or wound me.  If it eventually makes me check out their "difficult" band then they have done me a huge service.  Because the fact is, some of this Rio and Post Rock/metal is every bit as amazing, cool, and beautiful as the old bands.

I'm not suggesting people openly ridicule anyone, understand.  But there is a difference between mocking someone and a bunch of guys talking about what they like and being irreverent towards something they don't find interesting.  I think if you are upset by the latter, well, you shouldn't be because there's nothing wrong with that. Because they like a Rio band and don't like DT doesn't mean they are conspiring to mock you.  I don't think there is any shortage of discussion of Prog-metal on this site for those who want to stick with one genre.   Seems easier to ignore the posters you  don't like than to attempt to change them. 

Bring on the elitism!  Sure beats the alternative.  Plus, I can always leave my computer and go listen to Air Supply and the Rio guys here will never find out

Elitists, if you're here, I thank you.  And if trying to point out how cool Miasma or Gojira or Maudlin is makes me elitist to DT fans, so be it.  But it shouldn't. 

King Crimson776 wrote: Dood, don't even worry about it. If a Sleeptime Gorilla Museum fan makes fun of you for listening to Dream Theater, laugh at him; he's the pseudohead, you're the guy who likes a catchy metal band.

SGM? ARE YOU SEIROUS?!?! What a prog noob! dude, they're so bad compared to all the obscure stufff I listen to. Stupid noob, sucha lozer.

That's a first.^

^ please don't get me wrong ... there's nothing wrong with these "tricks" I mentioned. I also wrote some tunes in the past and I've used some of them. The point is that they don't necessarily make your music more interesting. In the end even the most complex tracks are based on one or a few simple melodies ... and if they don't work in a reduced setting (just the melody) they probably also won't work in more complex arrangements.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - November 25 2007 at 11:56

I'm totally guilty of elitism (usually only within my family because it seems I'm the only one who explores the range of music to find totally diverse yet equally interesting music), but not really within Progressive Rock (if I am well then I haven't come to realize it yet)

Elitism can be a pro and con. You can pat yourself on the back for finding some obscure artist and the fact that you are part of the "the lucky chosen few". But it can also be a con in the sense that if/when you want to show a band to a friend, they might not like it because it is too obscure and not many people listen to it and are a bit cautious about it.