I am upset. Here's why (progressive elitism):

dante.dio wrote: Well I have to disagree with everyone saying that obscure bands play poor music.  The music is obscure only because the bands were over-shadowed by bigger names who appeal to bigger audiences.  The music is not obscure because it is bad.

Sometimes albums are obscure for a reason ... sometimes not. Depends on the album!

King Crimson776 wrote: They are just an example of a sh*t band that people think they are the sh*t for listening to. I could have used any more obscure example but then all the prog noobs wouldn't know what I was talking about.

You realize how superficial that sounds, right? I don't think you're quite as serious with the second sentence, but the first one.......

King Crimson776 wrote: Shakespeare wrote: King Crimson776 wrote: Dood, don't even worry about it. If a Sleeptime Gorilla Museum fan makes fun of you for listening to Dream Theater, laugh at him; he's the pseudohead, you're the guy who likes a catchy metal band.  SGM? ARE YOU SEIROUS?!?! What a prog noob! dude, they're so bad compared to all the obscure stufff I listen to. Stupid noob, sucha lozer. I'm glad you don't like them

I can't tell if you are serious or not.

I may be alone here, but I prefer a poster like the one Stonebeard described than one who is the polar opposite.. not to name names, but I think it's fairly obvious who I'm talking about. I don't like Neo-prog and a lot of prog-metal, but I keep it to myself unless I'm asked for an opinion (polls, etc.). Similarly, I'd expect someone who doesn't understand elements of avant-garde not to make ridiculous claims about it, such as it being bad because it's not catchy, and people only like it because it's obscure.  

Sckxyss wrote: Also, I don't see a whole lot of distasteful posts about DT or prog-metal anymore, besides the occasional "omg DT rawks petroochi is teh GAWD" posts, which obviously aren't serious and hardly harmful. Rather, I see, as schizoid_man pointed out in his thread, elitism from older members towards modern prog.

I think I should apologize for my earlier post where I chastized people who do that^^, most of the time it's in good humor...I was probably thinking about a forum i used to be a member at (not a music forum btw) where newbies would come and ask basic questions and the more experienced members would mock and have a field day while the confused newbie doesn't know what's going on...so I must have gotten a bad impression and applied it here which is unfair.  Anyway, my apologies to those individuals....if anyone even noticed my post

heyitsthatguy wrote: /\ well, I don't think it was mostly at you, micky, we all know you do it in jest, but there are some people here who have a vehement hatred...I personally don't care and though this may be a prog site, I can ASSURE you I've seen far worse elitism elsewhere....basically people seem to feel that the more obscure their band is, the more important they are because they listen to them and no one else seemingly can

Excellent thread Stonebeard.I like the one you did some time ago challenging Neo bashers to bring it on! darqdean makes a great point that often the bashers are immature(not necessarily young). I remember with embarrassment how narrow minded i was when i was in my twenties about music.And yes i had the attitude to make my thoughts known,which made me look even more like an idiot. So for you people who get bashed for liking DREAM THEATER or MARILLION just consider how immature the person is who is throwing the stones. I think elitism(arrogance) is even worse than immaturity though.And i think it's worse on other sites then it is here. I refuse to let people make me feel guilty for loving neo or metal. Bring it on!

Is it really elitism if you actually are better?

explodingjosh wrote: King Crimson776 wrote: Shakespeare wrote: King Crimson776 wrote: Dood, don't even worry about it. If a Sleeptime Gorilla Museum fan makes fun of you for listening to Dream Theater, laugh at him; he's the pseudohead, you're the guy who likes a catchy metal band.  SGM? ARE YOU SEIROUS?!?! What a prog noob! dude, they're so bad compared to all the obscure stufff I listen to. Stupid noob, sucha lozer. I'm glad you don't like them (they make Magma sound good for f**ks sake ). They are just an example of a sh*t band that people think they are the sh*t for listening to. I could have used any more obscure example but then all the prog noobs wouldn't know what I was talking about. But then again the true noobs are those who reject catchy bands because they are too mainstream. You stop being a noob when you give all music a chance. (not you specifically, just in general). Btw, Magma's good, I just don't like MDK, so I didn't like them at first. I'm pretty much always in jest when I say a band as obviously good as Magma sucks, so no worries. I think SGM is a great band. I truly enjoy listing to In Glorious Times, and I think that the  variety of textures and the complexity of the music is brilliant. I've watched the entire concert set on YouTube and the songs are perfectly executed... so that's proof for me that there's no pretending going on with the musicians. And also, I could care less if nobody knows that I listen to SGM. King Crimson776, there are people out there who listen to bands like The Mars Volta and Sleepytime simply because they like them. You always take any chance possible to bash them whenever they are mentioned, which is lllllllllllammmmme. You seem to be really afraid of being fooled by pretend bands with pretend music. I really can't imagine artists with such talent (e.g. the members of TMV and SGM) would need to pretend to make their music enjoyable. I think that kind of attitude towards writing would  be more commonplace among Art Punk bands like Angels & Airwaves (where the music and talent of the artist is obviously undeveloped), but that's just my opinion and my take on things.

That's cool, like I said about TMV, if there's something that gets you off about the band, totally fine. It just seems like any pleasure that can be taken from those bands can only be perverse. Art Punk bands can have something that gets its listeners off just as well as TMV and SGM, even if the musicianship is less developed, except the pleasure taken from them is likely less perverse or pretentious (also, perfect execution doesn't mean good songs). I don't think I could appreciate the music for the complexity in itself but if complexity is an end itself for you then that's perfectly fine. I'm certainly not afraid of being tricked by that type of band, the reason I speak against it is that I don't think it's good for this generation and their attitudes toward music (as a whole, I know already that you happen to be fine with it but many aren't, I've met people that are in weird mindsets because of TMV, they have an unhealthy worship for the band). I apologize if my rants about the bands seemed too serious, it is just music afterall. I wanted to state my opinion on the bands and the bad vibes they cause and in doing so there are some bad vibes that don't need to be here. The topic is elitism and I don't hold my words above anyone else's, so if you've actually read this, take my words for what you will as I mean well like most here and express my opnion in an attempt to better myself and hopefully others by considering my words. Maybe sarcasm and jest aren't the best means over the interent .

heyitsthatguy wrote: sarcasm fails 99 percent of the time over the internet, I've found

99 exactly huh, duly noted. I'll save it for that 1%. Oops, there it is again.