I really wonder why High Tide's smashing debut album "Sea Shanties" is not listed among the 20 key albums of heavy prog. it is in my opinion the album that defined the genre and an absolute gem; the track "Death Warmed Up" alone would give most prog metal acts of today a run for their money. is it perhaps too little known?

indeed, it always matters what albums people rated and liked most. It would be awesome to imagine a professional top list, trying to pinpoint very pivotal albums of the genre, but it would need the consent on "specialists doing the list and being credited as the specialists for that"...

And if I had my way, Birth Control and Gravy Train would be in the top 20.  Really like to see "Plastic People" and "(A Ballad of) A Peaceful Man" represented.  As has been said, it's about the rating and number of ratings.  One thing I suggested long ago is that only one album per band be listed in the top 20.  Lots of great albums that are worthy of top 20 status.

4.45 RUSH Moving Pictures (1981)	4.42 RUSH A Farewell to Kings (1977)	4.37 RUSH Hemispheres (1978)	4.29 RUSH Permanent Waves (1980)
4.78 INDEXI Modra Rijeka (1978)	4.24 MARS VOLTA, THE De-loused in the Comatorium (2003)	4.14 PORCUPINE TREE In Absentia (2002)	4.14 PORCUPINE TREE Fear Of A Blank Planet (2007)
4.24 URIAH HEEP Look at Yourself (1971)	4.12 PORCUPINE TREE The Sky Moves Sideways (1995)	4.56 NIGHT SUN Mournin (1972)	4.49 LUCIFER'S FRIEND Banquet (1974)
4.13 URIAH HEEP Salisbury (1971)	4.15 ANEKDOTEN From Within (1999)	4.11 ANEKDOTEN Vemod (1993)	4.10 ANEKDOTEN A Time Of Day (2007)
4.07 URIAH HEEP Demons and Wizards (1972)	4.07 ANEKDOTEN Nucleus (1995)	3.99 RUSH 2112 (1976)	4.63 2066 & THEN Reflections (1989)

It would be much more interesting for me if each band had only one entry.  I certainly, for my tastes, think that High Tide's debut would be a smashing album for the top position in Heavy Prog, but it only has an average of 3.88 with 26 ratings.  The follow-up album has an average of 4.00 with 16 ratings.

EDIT: Anyway, as good as High Tide's "Sea Shanties," it's not quite up to Khan's "Space Shanty" in my opinion (that "heavy Prog" Canterbury Scene album).

Edited by Logan - January 27 2008 at 22:03

Logan wrote: And if I had my way, Birth Control and Gravy Train would be in the top 20.  Really like to see "Plastic People" and "(A Ballad of) A Peaceful Man" represented.  As has been said, it's about the rating and number of ratings.  One thing I suggested long ago is that only one album per band be listed in the top 20.  Lots of great albums that are worthy of top 20 status. It would be much more interesting for me if each band had only one entry.  I certainly, for my tastes, think that High Tide's debut would be a smashing album for the top position in Heavy Prog, but it only has an average of 3.88 with 26 ratings.  The follow-up album has an average of 4.00 with 16 ratings. EDIT: Anyway, as good as High Tide's "Sea Shanties," it's not quite up to Khan's "Space Shanty" in my opinion (that "heavy Prog" Canterbury Scene album).

Indeed, the new algorithm of rating and charting the rates is a bit of a step forwards, since some bands that are not the Giant Names have an album or two in the top, but overall the heavy rating and reviewing on the most popular albums can't change facts.

I'd say no to including only one album in a top, even if Rush or Zappa gives many headaches when opening the top 20 of those respective genres. I think we already eliminated prog related and live albums from the top 100, I didn't even knew about the change, but anyway it doesn't sound fair to favor a type of album for another (of course, let's not include compilations and bootlegs here).

P.S.: How the heck is Anekdoten in the top 20, with "A Time Of Day" - I could say . Is "A Time Of Day" even heavy?

Exactly most of our words here, Raff. People rate and review what they like - thus creating the top 20 of a genre. Such tops are generally irrelevant to the strong values of the genres (though some albums are, indeed, good and representative, can't say no to any), and that's why it's pointless to feel frustrated that artists like Zappa cloth, let's say, the top of the RIO genre.

I'm thinking each team would come up with a top 20 representative (or best/pivotal/referential) albums for their genre, which to be shown together with the top 20 that comes from the rates. I'm only thinking that the top 20 made of rates and reviews can't be modified/altered in any way, so that's why a second top, made carefully by the specialists of a particular genre, could be created.

Of course, this would steer the discussion towards an idea of "how to improve the site'.

just to make it clear: I did not raise the issue because I am particularly fond of that album (although I am; look at my review of it), but because I honestly believe that historically it definitely is a key album in that genre, whatever the ratings are. even if the average rating would be 1 star only it still would be. just like "Psychedelic Underground" by Amon Düül historically is THE key album for Kraut, though musically I would give it 2 stars at the most, perhaps even 1 star only

khammer99 wrote:  I must admit, that no matter how many times I listen that CD, I don't get it. Sorry, I'm not faulting anyone who does, but it was a big disappointment for me.  That said, I do like "Walking Down Their Outlook". So, what am I missing?

If you don't hear the fantastic interplay between guitar and violin and don't realize how incredibly heavy the album is for its time, then it is simply not your cup of tea.
however, whether you like it or not is not the point. the album is a milestone in the development of heavy prog. you don't have to like "Psychedelic Underground" by Amon Düül to realize its importance for the development of Kraut either. I certainly don't like "Psychedelic Underground", but it is THE key album for the development of Kraut. and just the same "Sea Shanties" is THE key album for the development of heavy prog, only I happen to like this album


Edited by BaldJean - January 28 2008 at 16:42

I quite agree with Jean to the extent that there should be a wider variety of Key Albums, and maybe no more than two or three from a single band

and I would say Sea Shanties was more of a breakthrough than a milestone, and quite important if only in hindsight

Aside from BaldJean's and BaldFriede's frequent posts regarding High Tide, I personally have never heard of this band, which leads me to the question of how key of an album could it be if I haven't heard it and secondly have never even heard of the band.  (Not meant to be an arrogant answer, although that is how it is coming across to me as I type it).  Are there many artists/musicians that cite High Tide as an influence of theirs?  Are they only known in England or parts of Europe?  Did they have any impact in the Americas?  Not that that in itself really means anything with American's musical tastes. 

rushfan4 wrote: Aside from BaldJean's and BaldFriede's frequent posts regarding High Tide, I personally have never heard of this band, which leads me to the question of how key of an album could it be if I haven't heard it and secondly have never even heard of the band.  (Not meant to be an arrogant answer, although that is how it is coming across to me as I type it).  Are there many artists/musicians that cite High Tide as an influence of theirs?  Are they only known in England or parts of Europe?  Did they have any impact in the Americas?  Not that that in itself really means anything with American's musical tastes.    P.S. I just listened to the streaming track on this site and actually found it quite enjoyable, which leads to the next question, where do I find anything else from them?

the record was important musicologically - as a historical document of a very early form of rock that was both heavy and progressive - but it wasn't necessarily more influential on prog than any other early art rock