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fighting sleep 
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Joined: September 04 2007
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 Posted: February 27 2008 at 21:38 |
 Finnforest wrote:
I believe "best ofs" are always the wrong approach to getting to know a band because they are not the artistic vision of the band and don't convey the songs in proper context.
Instead of buying an illigitimate release that cannot convey the full content of any one given album theme, musically or lyrically, just do this. If you can't afford to buy many titles by a band, do a little research and you can quickly find out what fans consider the "definitive" releases by each band. It's not tough to do. Then, buy one of their good albums. You'll get a legit piece of art, and you'll find out whether you like the band.
There is no need to buy some hodgepodge of songs that have no organic relation to each other, other than record company doofs assured they were the chosen tracks on the radio.
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 words that my heart means to say.
However, as happenstance goes, it was a compilation album, Pink Floyd's "Echoes" that launched me into Prog in the first place. The third disc of Genesis' Platinum Collection gives a great taste of our favorite Gabriel stuff, and I personally believe that with ELP, there is no better place to start then the Best of or Essentials (if you like the smorgasbord of quirkiness there, then their actual albums will be a real treat).
One of my favorite methods of amassing music is get an Essentials album of a band that I'm unsure about, and if I like it, begin gradually to collect their albums, deleting the repeats from the Essentials list on my iPod as I go. That way I appreciate their songs individually, as well as better appreciating their place on their respective albums.
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puma
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Joined: April 15 2007
Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: February 27 2008 at 21:58 |
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I've found I like live albums better for that purpose. Seeing as live albums are essentially collections of a band's favorite songs, and usually are really good performances (good enough to be made into live albums), I like using them to help me get into a band. It worked for Kansas, with Two for the Show, it worked with Hawkwind, with Space Ritual, and it worked with King Crimson, with Cirkus-the Young Person's Guide to King Crimson Live (although that IS a bit different).
This hypothesis only applies to bands on this site, though; if you are trying to get into a band like Cream or Mountain, just get the albums.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: February 27 2008 at 22:11 |
I dislike most Greatest Hits for several reasons:
- Every album has a mood and atmosphere, the order of the songs helps to keep that atmosphere alive, in greatest hits you normally have the songs chosen randomly and without any order.
- Very rarely a compilation presents the best tracks, normally what we listen are the most commercial ones.
- Many compilations cut the long songs to make space for more material and that's an aberration.
- The bands have eras and a "Best of" throws inside everythoing the label thinks is going to sell.
I go with a live albun without hesitation.
Iván
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moodyxadi
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 01 2005
Location: Brazil
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Points: 417
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Posted: February 27 2008 at 22:36 |
fighting sleep wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
I believe "best ofs" are always the wrong approach to getting to know a band because they are not the artistic vision of the band and don't convey the songs in proper context.
Instead of buying an illigitimate release that cannot convey the full content of any one given album theme, musically or lyrically, just do this. If you can't afford to buy many titles by a band, do a little research and you can quickly find out what fans consider the "definitive" releases by each band. It's not tough to do. Then, buy one of their good albums. You'll get a legit piece of art, and you'll find out whether you like the band.
There is no need to buy some hodgepodge of songs that have no organic relation to each other, other than record company doofs assured they were the chosen tracks on the radio.
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words that my heart means to say.
However, as happenstance goes, it was a compilation album, Pink Floyd's "Echoes" that launched me into Prog in the first place. The third disc of Genesis' Platinum Collection gives a great taste of our favorite Gabriel stuff, and I personally believe that with ELP, there is no better place to start then the Best of or Essentials (if you like the smorgasbord of quirkiness there, then their actual albums will be a real treat).
One of my favorite methods of amassing music is get an Essentials album of a band that I'm unsure about, and if I like it, begin gradually to collect their albums, deleting the repeats from the Essentials list on my iPod as I go. That way I appreciate their songs individually, as well as better appreciating their place on their respective albums. |
Well, If I'm aware of some band's artistic value and general style (based on reviews from people that seems to get a taste next to mine and samples) I never buy a 'best of'. But if the band in question seems to be interesting but there is strong disagreement about its value (in my case: Styx) I try to get acess to a best of like the "Essential"s collection or a live album - what is a lot better in most cases. But Imagine if someone wants to discover what's the noise about Deep Purple and buy the Made in Japan album; all the pre-Gillan and Coverdale-Hughes material are off. Made in Japan is probably one of the three best live albums ever, but don't you think that the albums Burn, Stormbringer and at least Hush and some songs from their third album have importance?
I know that in progressive rock terms a representative "best of" is complicated to build, and that's the reason why I'm used to buy compilations only from pop-rock or hard rock bands. Nazareth's GH and Grand Funk's 21st century masters presented these bands very well to me, and gave me clues to start exploring their regular albums. That's one of the reasons that make me believe that, after a good research, it's possible to start exploring a new sound within the limits of a best of album.
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Bach, Ma, Bros, Déia, Dante.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 3449
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Posted: February 27 2008 at 22:40 |
I actually feel some Best Of/Greatist Hits complilations can be a great way to either introduce oneself to a new band or rediscover an old band. Generally these need to be multi-disc sets; a single disc Best Of is generally worthless in my experience. Here are a couple examples from my collection that I think serve the purpose well:
Genesis Platinum Collection: three CD's spanning most of Genesis' career. This provides an opportunity for new listeners to familiarize themselves with the bands various eras for very little cost and can serve a jumping off point for acquiring the individual albums. Purists will argue that it shortchanges the early years, but that not its point.
Atomic Rooster Heavy Soul: two CD's spanning nine albums of material. This has the plus that it's generally stocked in your local music shop, which will not have the individual albums. Again at very little cost you get a great introduction to this band.
Procol Harum Anthology: two CD's covering huge amounts of the band's first four LP's. Again, a pretty cheap way ($20) to acquire some of their best stuff. This one however inexplicably omits The Devil Came From Kansas and has nothing from Broken Barricades. But when i check out the prices of Procol's CD's on Amazon ($25 each for some of their CD's) this one looks like a real bargain.
I'm not saying I'd want to base my collection on these, but they can serve a purpose. Besides I can't pop my Procol LP's in the car's CD changer.
Often an even better buy for the listener who's not a completist with regard to a particular band (particularly those with extensive catalogs) is to pick up a box set, which will generally give a decent overview of a band. I'm thinking in particular, for me anyway, of Judas Priest's Metalogy and Motorhead's Stone Deaf Forever. I think I paid under $40 for each of these.
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MusicalSalmacis
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Joined: December 23 2007
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Points: 213
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Posted: February 27 2008 at 23:26 |
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Live albums are better. Live albums are like compilations, but live. And if you happen to get into the band, and you find yourself owning every one of their CDs, it's better to have a live album as well than a compilation album!
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A B Negative
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Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 04:59 |
I bought Deepest Purple when it was first released many years ago, more recently I bought First Generation and I Prophesy Disaster by Van der Graaf Generator, and Caravan's Where but for Caravan Would I.
I recommend all of these compilations for anyone interested in hearing these three bands for the first time.
And don't tell me I don't love prog because I'm not listening to the tracks in the order the artist intended on the original album. If someone skips past More Fool Me when they listen to Selling England by the Pound they're guilty of the same crime. 
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
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Points: 10377
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 05:51 |
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I have to agree with Raffaela: live albums are a great introduction. if you don't get hooked by great albums like "Gong Live Etc.", "Frumpy Live" or "Guru Guru Live" (just to name a few) you won't get hooked at all. I am aware though that (strangely to me) many people prefer studio albums because of the "sound quality"
Edited by BaldJean - February 28 2008 at 05:53
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Gentlegiantprog
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Joined: January 31 2008
Location: Stafford
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Points: 238
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 09:34 |
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The first Genesis album I ever got was Turn It On Again- The Hits. How f'in dissapointing is that ? I expected something like a mixture between Yes and Floyd and instead got a bunch of pop songs. Nearly put me off Genesis forever until I did my research and found prog archives, and with it Cinema show, Watcher in the Skies and Musical box.
Sometimes best ofs are good, but you never know. But as a fan I wouldn't want to risk buying the one album by the band you didnt like and then saying no to that band forever because the most popular album didnt do it for you.
I got Caravan's for Girls Who' first and didn't like it and didn't therfore like caravan. In a moment of Madness I bought ITLOGAP and loved it, and it then showed me what was good about 'For Girls''
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Let the maps of war be drawn !  http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/
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omri
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Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 09:51 |
I agree with all who said that compilations are usualy not a good way to meet a new band or artist.
I also suspect live albums as a more sufisticated style of greatest hits form or in some cases the musicians in a live album are too busy to show how great players they are instead of concentrating about the best way to do the music (for me, and I guess many will not agree this is the case of Led zeppelins' "The song remain the same"). There are great live albums (my example - ELP welcome back my friends) but when you do'nt know a band you have no way to guess how their live album is like.
In the last 3 years I was exposed to a lot of new (for me) bands here in PA . My way is to read reviews. Usually when a review is written well I can feel if it's fits me. Than I go to that album and read some more reviews and also see if there are more key albums of that artist. This is how I discovered Esperanto (Danse macabre is a masterpiece IMO), Eskaton (4 visions), Discipline (Unfolded like staircase), Amon Duul II (Phalus dei, Yeti, TDL, Wolf city) and many more.
After a while you get to know others' taste so it gives you some more hints. For example, Ivan love melody so when he loves something it is very beautifull for sure. Baldjean prefers dark music and Rafaela has a taste that is quite similar to my taste. So that's another way to understand which albums to search for.
Oh, and if skipping "More fool me" is a crime then I'm an outlaw.
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omri
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explodingjosh
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Joined: February 10 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 507
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 10:39 |
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You guys should listen to "Focus" by Cynic. Its all the best songs they've ever done on one cd!
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A B Negative
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Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 12:02 |
I nearly forgot about my introduction to early Pink Floyd. At the start of the 80s, Relics was available on the budget Music for Pleasure label and within the reach of my meagre finances. I spent hours as a teenager listening to it in the dark. Wonderful!
Edited by A B Negative - February 28 2008 at 12:02
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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fighting sleep
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Joined: September 04 2007
Location: U.S.A
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 13:48 |
moodyxadi wrote:
fighting sleep wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
I believe "best ofs" are always the wrong approach to getting to know a band because they are not the artistic vision of the band and don't convey the songs in proper context.
Instead of buying an illigitimate release that cannot convey the full content of any one given album theme, musically or lyrically, just do this. If you can't afford to buy many titles by a band, do a little research and you can quickly find out what fans consider the "definitive" releases by each band. It's not tough to do. Then, buy one of their good albums. You'll get a legit piece of art, and you'll find out whether you like the band.
There is no need to buy some hodgepodge of songs that have no organic relation to each other, other than record company doofs assured they were the chosen tracks on the radio.
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words that my heart means to say.
However, as happenstance goes, it was a compilation album, Pink Floyd's "Echoes" that launched me into Prog in the first place. The third disc of Genesis' Platinum Collection gives a great taste of our favorite Gabriel stuff, and I personally believe that with ELP, there is no better place to start then the Best of or Essentials (if you like the smorgasbord of quirkiness there, then their actual albums will be a real treat).
One of my favorite methods of amassing music is get an Essentials album of a band that I'm unsure about, and if I like it, begin gradually to collect their albums, deleting the repeats from the Essentials list on my iPod as I go. That way I appreciate their songs individually, as well as better appreciating their place on their respective albums. |
Well, If I'm aware of some band's artistic value and general style (based on reviews from people that seems to get a taste next to mine and samples) I never buy a 'best of'. But if the band in question seems to be interesting but there is strong disagreement about its value (in my case: Styx) I try to get acess to a best of like the "Essential"s collection or a live album - what is a lot better in most cases. But Imagine if someone wants to discover what's the noise about Deep Purple and buy the Made in Japan album; all the pre-Gillan and Coverdale-Hughes material are off. Made in Japan is probably one of the three best live albums ever, but don't you think that the albums Burn, Stormbringer and at least Hush and some songs from their third album have importance?
I know that in progressive rock terms a representative "best of" is complicated to build, and that's the reason why I'm used to buy compilations only from pop-rock or hard rock bands. Nazareth's GH and Grand Funk's 21st century masters presented these bands very well to me, and gave me clues to start exploring their regular albums. That's one of the reasons that make me believe that, after a good research, it's possible to start exploring a new sound within the limits of a best of album. |
Very true. If I hadn't grown up with my father playing songs off of "Echoes", but still got into prog rock, i would never start there with Pink Floyd. I'd probably get Dark Side of the Moon, and see how it went from there.
But another factor that particularly affects me is availability. I don't generally like ordering things from amazon if I don't have to. But when I try to search for great seventies prog acts, a lot of what I'll find are just these best of collections. So, for convenience and the other aforementioned reasons, I'll get the best of album.
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LinusW
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 15:40 |
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I think they're extremely dangerous. I started experimenting with Kansas (one of my favourite bands) through a compilation album, and I was disgusted. Took me another year until I turned to a Kansas album again, mostly out of boredom. That one was Point of Know Return, quickly followed by Masque and Song for America with Leftoverture as the finale.
Better to search around at places like this and go for an album which is said to "represent" the specific sound of a band, and then you can delve deeper into their discography.
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Sckxyss
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 16:56 |
I agree with many that compilations are no good, but live albums sure can be.
Magma's Live/Hhai deserves a nod, both a great introduction and an essential album.
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WideAngleWatcher
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 19:33 |
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If we're talking specifically about Prog bands it's hard, as a few people have mentioned Pink Floyd's Echoes is brilliant as it covers most of the band's career and doesn't just go for the obvious. However with some bands in a bid to be commercially successful greatest hits packages do not give a proper overview of the band's career which is never a good thing if the person who buys the greatest hits then decides to buy a proper album and is hit with a huge shock when a 25 minute song crops up.
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MusicalSalmacis
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Posted: February 28 2008 at 22:24 |
Pink Floyd's Echoes had too much emphasis on The Division Bell and there are songs from many albums missing :/
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: February 29 2008 at 01:37 |
A B Negative wrote:
And don't tell me I don't love prog because I'm not listening to the tracks in the order the artist intended on the original album. If someone skips past More Fool Me when they listen to Selling England by the Pound they're guilty of the same crime. |
But at least yo have the album the way the artist believed it had to be released, in the order and with the mood it was created, More Fool Me IMHO is a filler, so doesn't make much sense in SEBTP, which BTW is the album with a more eclectoic atmosphere, you have good and bad soings, dark and light ones all mixed together, compared with the dark hunting Trespass or the pasive aggressive NUursery Cryme, you can't find something that holds the album together as a concept or at least a preeminent mood.
Now...If I had bought "Turn it on Again The Hits" I would not bought any other Genesis album. Two vocalists, two guitarists, one Gabriel song lost between No Son of Mine and Abacab and one Dance mix of a Lamb song taken out of it's context.
That's an avberration, Pop fans will hate Prog songs (Well, only one poppy Prog track) and Prog fans wouldn't waste their time or money.
Yes, I skip some fillers once in a while luike More Fool Me, but what sense would make a great song like Into the Cage outside The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway even if it's followed by The Musical Box? There must be a reasobn why The Lamb was played completely on stage.
IMO most compilations are a waste of money and useless to have an idea of the band, unless you want to listen the most popular tracks.
Iván
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A B Negative
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Joined: May 02 2006
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Posted: February 29 2008 at 05:51 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Yes, I skip some fillers once in a while luike More Fool Me, but what sense would make a great song like Into the Cage outside The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway even if it's followed by The Musical Box? There must be a reasobn why The Lamb was played completely on stage.
Iván |
Counting Out Time and The Carpet Crawlers were released as singles so the idea of one cohesive piece of work couldn't have been that important to Genesis (or at least less important than record company pressure).
If songs aren't capable of standing on their own or don't make sense outwith the confines of the original album, are they really so good?
Anyway, another compilation I heartily recommend (although not prog) is Decades by Neil Young.
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Jim Garten
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Posted: February 29 2008 at 07:48 |
I'd tend to agree with Raff & Jean as far as live albums as an introduction to a band is concerned; it's the way I've always gone & thus far has rarely steered me wrong. A couple of recommendations for 'best of' albums though: Pink Floyd - Echoes; remixed completely by David Gilmour in such a way as it almost comes across as a single piece of work, with the tracks not put down chronologically, but in such a way as to compliment the song before & afterward (and finally putting 'Shine On...' together as a single 17 minute piece) Mostly Autumn - Heroes Never Die; an unusual approach to a 'best of' in that MA chose the tracks to go onto the album, then re-recorded new versions of them - well worth checking out 
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 Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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"Best ofs" and "Greatest Hits" as an introduction
