Political discussion thread

Consider the evidence:

As Barack Obama's candidacy comes under increasing scrutiny, his account of his religious upbringing deserves careful attention for what it tells us about the candidate's integrity. If he lied maybe. Religion doesn't tell us anything else about a person but that he/she believes in things he/she can't prove... I agree but why should he conceal his background? I don't care what religion he subcribes to but by not being forthcoming about it only makes me suspicious of him. IF he's doing it, well... he's a politician. And tries to win the white house to make some good. What would republicans say if Obama said "I was a muslim?"..... If nowadays, with just a senseless rumor, they use it against him, imagine if he actually said he was one at a point in his life.

Obama asserted in December, "I've always been a Christian," and he has adamantly denied ever having been a Muslim. "The only connection I've had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father's side came from that country [Kenya]. But I've never practiced Islam."  Ok. His word against that of his detractors. Let's see...

In February, he claimed, "I have never been a Muslim.... other than my name and the fact that I lived in a populous Muslim country for four years when I was a child [Indonesia, 1967-71] I have very little connection to the Islamic religion." he had contact... i was raised in a Catholic country and I'm an Atheist.... Damn! Or am I lying about which fairy tale story I believe in? Well did you ever attend church or practice a form a Christianity and then convert to Atheism? If you did would you deny ever doing so if running for President? Maybe, if that country was a ferocious anti-catholic country....or if catholics have killed about 3000 people in an attack...

"Always" and "never" leave little room for equivocation. But many biographical facts, culled mainly from the American press, suggest that, when growing up, the Democratic candidate for president both saw himself and was seen as a Muslim. I quote you: "Always" and "never" leave little room for equivocation... except, of course, when it's your political rival. I have to agree both sides of a political campaign will try and smear each other. Unfortunately, that is the nature of politics.

• Obama's Kenyan birth father: In Islam, religion passes from the father to the child. Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. (1936-1982) was a Muslim who named his boy Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.  NO. Religion doesn't pass from father to child. IT'S NOT A GENE. A free person can CHOOSE. I can't belive that people have the nerve of saying things like "that's a catholic boy" or "she's a good christian girl" or "my 5 year old is a great muslim"... Why are we labeling children that don't yet have the reasoning capacity to MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES? So it's perfectly believable that Obama, a muslim son, was not a muslim. I agree wholeheartedly with your statement.  

• Obama's Indonesian family: His stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, was also a Muslim. In fact, as Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng explained to Jodi Kantor of The New York Times: "My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim." An Indonesian publication, The Banjarmasin Post, reports a former classmate, Rony Amir, recalling that "All the relatives of Barry's father were very devout Muslims." Damn! I should be a catholic! My whole family (except for my nuclear family, father,mother, sister, who CHOSE their individual paths) was catholic! Label me! Poor evidence. It comes down to Obama's denial of ever practicing Islam which recent investigations have revealed that in fact he did. I'm not here to label you but would you deny ever practicing Catholicism if in fact you had done so because your family initially exposed you to that religion? the same thing. He could have practiced a religion because of his background, but maybe he wasn't religious himself. To use my case, I have been to Mass about 10 times in my life... when i was a kid they took me to like 3 masses... do you think I believed in the fairy tale THEN any more than I believe  now? And if I did, remember, I WAS A CHILD. Children believe in mighty blankets or the monster in the closet.

• Obama's Catholic school in Jakarta: Nedra Pickler of the Associated Press reports that "documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim" while at a Catholic school during first through third grades. Kim Barker of The Chicago Tribune confirms that Obama was "listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school." If it was a "catholic school", I'm pretty sure it was standard to label children, therefore they had to label little Obama as his parents. Remember: FROM FIRST TO THIRD GRADE A CHILD'S MIND IS NOT READY TO CHOOSE BY HIMSELF.... Or maybe he was a prodigious child who enrolled himself... and maybe even paid himself... Agreed, a child is not capable of making that type of decision regarding a belief system at that age but that's also no reason to deny ever practicing different beliefs.

• The public school: Paul Watson of The Los Angeles Times learned from Indonesians familiar with Obama when he lived in Jakarta that he "was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended."Did you read that? Registered BY HIS FAMILY. HE WAS A CHILD.  Haroon Siddiqui of The Toronto Star visited the Jakarta public school Obama attended and found that "Three of his teachers have said he was enrolled as a Muslim." DID HE ENROLLED HIMSELF? OR MAYBE HIS PARENTS ENROLLED HIM? Although Siddiqui cautions that "With the school records missing, eaten by bugs, one has to rely on people's shifting memories," he cites only one retired teacher, Tine Hahiyari, retracting her earlier certainty about Obama's being registered as a Muslim. There's still not ONE single piece of evidence that shows that Obama HIMSELF ever was a muslim. Only registrations made by HIS MUSLIM PARENTS. Why would his parents enroll him as a muslim if they weren't practicing that religion as a family?For sure they were practising, none denies that. But that doesn't mean Obama was a muslim. He was a child whose parents tried to raise muslim. They failed.

• Barack Obama's public school in Jakarta, Koran class: In his autobiography, Dreams of My Father, Obama relates how he got into trouble for making faces during Koran studies. Indeed, Obama still retains knowledge from that class: Nicholas Kristof of The New York Times reports that Obama "recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them [to Kristof] with a first-rate accent." Of course. We're talking about a boy, a child. he makes faces as any other child or even teenager. And of course he knew the Q'uoran.. After all, he was probably forced to learn it by his MUSLIM PARENTS.  That is most likely the case.

• Mosque attendance: Obama's half-sister recalled that the family attended the mosque "for big communal events." Watson learned from childhood friends that "Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque." Barker found that "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers." One Indonesia friend, Zulfin Adi, states that Obama "was Muslim. He went to the mosque. I remember him wearing a sarong" (a garment associated with Muslims). How old was Obama here? Was he at least 18 years old so that we can fully trust it was his own free will that made him to there? Or, even if he did, that it was his concious decision after the kind of analysis only an adult mind can do?

Well you better tell the New York Times, Chicago Tribune and Los Angeles Times they have their facts all wrong too. No... they have their facts right... the problem is, the facts don't prove anything.

 

I really don't care what religion Obama is. I do not for a minute think that he would undermine the country over a religious belief. The background check done by the Clinton campaign did bring his muslim ubringing to light.