Innovative vs. Regressive prog artists

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Rubidium wrote: And what would you think if Yes get back into the studio and released Close to the Edge II?  It seems that a lot of people around here would love for that to happen, but they wouldn't like it if a band like TFK recorded the exact same album. The funny thing is: Although a lot of people are often reminiscing the "old times" in this forum, wishing that one of the old bands would somehow bring back the magic of those classic albums ... but I'm sure that if one of these bands would actually do that, they would not even enjoy the music. Of course it's even worse when a new band records music which sounds like the classic albums, but I think it is a general problem. Those times are gone, and you can't simply bring them back by trying to re-create the music. Queensryche tried (Mindcrime II), and failed.

I totally agree. In a sense, I'm glad Peter Gabriel ended up leaving Genesis because there's no way they could've kept up the amazing job they were doing. What would have happened if Bonham hadn't died? Nothing good, I imagine (to be completely blunt and honest).

Didn't Yes pretty much attempt this during the 90s, mostly to be labeled "okay" at best? I've had very little experience with these albums so I can't quite remember.

Rubidium wrote: The one thing I don't get about the whole "I don't like X because they sound too much like Y" is, what if you heard X before Y? Since it seems fashionable to talk about TFK in this respect, what if you heard TFK before you heard Yes?  Would you be unable to appreciate Yes because they remind you too much of TFK, even if Yes came first (just not first to your ears)?  Or would your alliegence change from TFK to Yes after you heard the latter?  Does the order in which you hear bands matter, or do you just like the one that you deem to be "better"? And what would you think if Yes get back into the studio and released Close to the Edge II?  It seems that a lot of people around here would love for that to happen, but they wouldn't like it if a band like TFK recorded the exact same album.

I got into TFK way before I got into Yes, and Yes is far superior. Yes is still catching up to TFK in my last.fm charts and I rarely listen to TFK nowadays.

Speesh wrote: While I don't mind the artists borrowing older ideas, following their own formulas, etc, there's definitely modern stuff I like a lot more. Specifically the modern Avant-Prog scene. Bands like Discus, Estradasphere, Cardiacs, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, SC3, and so many others are constantly blowing my mind the same way classic prog did back when I first discovered Yes and KC. I recommend anyone who isn't into these bands to certainly check either Discus' 1st or Estradasphere's Buck Fever out. There's a huge wealth of this music already and the innovation's not dying anytime soon.

I'm in the same boat as you, I think. While I love the symphonic bands of the 70s, I find the modern symphonic scene pretty boring. What I'm finding I like a lot from this decade, like you, is the avant prog scene which I just started checking out as of a month ago or so. I love Sleepytime! I'm also fond of a couple other bands that don't seem to get much mention here: Ahvak, Bubblemath, and Far Corner. I'll definitely have to check out those albums you mentioned though.

Sean Trane wrote: stewe wrote: I love many 70s inspired music and retro prog, but it has to have inspiration.. that's the main point for me. TFK seem to me that they're not write music in true sense - just come to jam-session, throw some random ideas, well-tested formulas, put it together, and that's all their music is all about. I can't hear the own personality in such music. I don't think even any of 70s bands - Yes, Genesis, ELP etc. sat and said - let's do some prog. They created music without thinking of purpose, they had own ideas and visions. But from the music of TFK I feel that purpose too much. That is difference, the approach to the music. But of course it is only my opinion (and it is reffered mostly on recent albums - seems to me they write music - as routine, and they have nothing to bring). I used to like quite lot Rainmaker or even Unfold the Future, but get bored after the constant repeating themselves and the same influences, creating 30 minute same tiresome songs. Wanted to know if someone here feel it similar or in different ways.     Indeed I get some of the same feelings you get: While not a fan at all of neo-prog (who seems to have copied everything from Marillion's Script and to a lesser extrent IQ's The Wake), I also get bored bya few  retro prog prog bands (groups doing prog" ala sumthin'") and  while at first retro prog appealed much to me (I still love Anglagard, Landberk and early Anekdoten and the first Paatos), most of the canon of the retro prog genre are growing increasingly boring to me (Wobbler, Synkadus, Gargamel, Discipline etc....   The two main example you are citing Spock's Beard and TFK are sitting somewhere retro prog and neo prog to my ears.  As does The Tengeant, which unfortunately seems so flat to me, that by half the album, it's been popped out after skipping a good third of the first part.     From seeing them live both around their first few albums, I'd say that I always had better feelings for Spock's Beard (excellent live show >> a real tight group) although their progressiveness was diminishing with their third, fourth and fifth albums, while TFK (a catastrophic live experience for me) was getting more into "prog cannon standard" with concept albums, double albums, extremely long tracks.....  but were certainly not getting better... TFK always did stuff "ala sumthin" and no matter of hard they try,  it's a lost cause to get me to change opinions. I think it's great both group are able to grow their own public and fill medium sized halls, but neither shall get the precurssor or even worthy followers status in my history book.      Soooooo why Anglagard and not The Tangeant???????????  Beats me. It's more than colours & tastes, for sure.... Not that i'm looking actively at finding out why, either

I definitely agree with you on Spock's Beard. While they are trying to recreate some of the 70s sound (Genesis, Gentle Giant, etc.), they seem to have taken influence from what I perceive neo-prog to be (influences from pop music and a bit more simplistic in musicianship and song structure). Not that there is anything inherently wrong with this, just not my cup of tea.

While I understand Anglagard to be technically retro (they use instruments only from the 70s?), I think their music is anything but retro. I find them to be a truly progressive symphonic prog band from this era because they are still pushing the boundaries of what a rock song is. Completely different from the usual list of retro prog bands, in my opinion.