most overrated alleged prog rock band

Somehow my other psot got deletd, so I'll say it again. Genesis. The ysound like a cheap YES clone with some other stuff thrown in. I only like Supper's Ready and The Cinema Show, the rest just bore me. Firth of Fifth sounds like a cheap Awaken clone, Dancing With the Moonlit Knight...bleh, don't like it. And trust me I've tried to get into them.

FishyMonkey wrote: Firth of Fifth sounds like a cheap Awaken clone

Maybe that should be the other way around. I mean, Firth of Fifth was released before Awaken.

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: [QUOTE=arcer] [QUOTE=Wrath_of_Ninian] [Finally, I have not heard a huge amount of Kansas, but I have heard Leftoverture and (on first and only listening), found it to be a really banal record, which at times made me think of the Eagles, the Sweet, and Lynyrd Skynyrd trying to jam a Steely Dan song.  A kind prog archiver even posted an Mpeg up after I berated them in a previous thread, and that just made it worse.  They even LOOKED awful!  But I know what you mean, and I too have sanguine, and yet inexplicable ties to records that would be laughed off this site.  However, I shall listen to Leftoverture again to see if I actually missed anything.  I try not to rashly dismiss things that people seem to genuinely care about.  Unless its neo-prog...

 

I sent you that link WON. Lets talk about it for a minute. Do you think a lean mean hit making machine looks like they did? Do you really believe that is what they were trying to accomplish? That piece was recorded at the end of year straight touring as second and third slots on the tickets. They had no money.  That song is a beautiful example of symph prog. It is called the Pinnacle and it resides on their third album Masque. The sound quality is poor because it was recorded for a TV show in 1975

 It starts out with a nice play of Violin and piano on one side of the stage and Organ and Guitar on the other. There are two great organ solos, violin and guitar solos in the song, not to mention a great two part harmony with a completely different verse and bridge section. I can see you say you don't like it but those guys can play and it is most definitely prog.

Just my opinion and you and I agree on PFM

 

 

Edited by Garion81

The most overrated is the flower kings wich is barely prog

Then you have pain of salvation wich is an awfull boyband metal imitation.

And spocks beard that wishes that they could make hit singles.

 

MikeEnRegalia wrote: maidenrulez wrote: The most overrated is the flower kings wich is barely prog That's a good one maidenrulez wrote:   Then you have pain of salvation wich is an awfull boyband metal imitation. I see by your avatar that you are a Dream Theater fan. You should check what Mike Portnoy says about Pain Of Salvation and Daniel Gildenlow in particular. Something about him being a genius, if I remember correctly. maidenrulez wrote: And spocks beard that wishes that they could make hit singles. They did. As did Dream Theater, if I'm not mistaken.

Comparing these horrible bands to dream theater is such a bad comparisment as any. These prog bands fails to bring anything new to the genre and why POS TFK and SB are called geniuses i can not get my self to understand. And what mike portnoy says i dont care for he is such a uninspiring and boring drummer.

 

Garion81 wrote: Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: [QUOTE=arcer] [QUOTE=Wrath_of_Ninian] [Finally, I have not heard a huge amount of Kansas, but I have heard Leftoverture and (on first and only listening), found it to be a really banal record, which at times made me think of the Eagles, the Sweet, and Lynyrd Skynyrd trying to jam a Steely Dan song.  A kind prog archiver even posted an Mpeg up after I berated them in a previous thread, and that just made it worse.  They even LOOKED awful!  But I know what you mean, and I too have sanguine, and yet inexplicable ties to records that would be laughed off this site.  However, I shall listen to Leftoverture again to see if I actually missed anything.  I try not to rashly dismiss things that people seem to genuinely care about.  Unless its neo-prog...    I sent you that link WON. Lets talk about it for a minute. Do you think a lean mean hit making machine looks like they did? Do you really believe that is what they were trying to accomplish? That piece was recorded at the end of year straight touring as second and third slots on the tickets. They had no money.  That song is a beautiful example of symph prog. It is called the Pinnacle and it resides on their third album Masque. The sound quality is poor because it was recorded for a TV show in 1975  It starts out with a nice play of Violin and piano on one side of the stage and Organ and Guitar on the other. There are two great organ solos, violin and guitar solos in the song, not to mention a great two part harmony with a completely different verse and bridge section. I can see you say you don't like it but those guys can play and it is most definitely prog. Just my opinion and you and I agree on PFM

Hi Garion,

Yes as I posted above, I'm looking into Kansas again, but I just dont really like their style, its just a bit too obvious for me, and a little too polished.  They dont take enough risks for me, which is what I meant by 'banal'.  Perhaps Leftoverture is not the best album to base my opinion on, but unfortunately its all I have access to at the moment.  If you can recommend some others, I'd be happy to try them out.

 

FishyMonkey wrote: Somehow my other psot got deletd, so I'll say it again. Genesis. The ysound like a cheap YES clone with some other stuff thrown in. I only like Supper's Ready and The Cinema Show, the rest just bore me. Firth of Fifth sounds like a cheap Awaken clone, Dancing With the Moonlit Knight...bleh, don't like it. And trust me I've tried to get into them.

"Firth of Fifth sounds like a cheap Awaken clone"??? What have you smoked?? Your socks???

arrgghhh!!

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

Hi Garion,

Yes as I posted above, I'm looking into Kansas again, but I just dont really like their style, its just a bit too obvious for me, and a little too polished.  They dont take enough risks for me, which is what I meant by 'banal'.  Perhaps Leftoverture is not the best album to base my opinion on, but unfortunately its all I have access to at the moment.  If you can recommend some others, I'd be happy to try them out.

 

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Ok what Richard said except with a little more explanation.  Kansas always had two songwriters that approached the band from way different angles. Steve Walsh tended to be more on the pop/rock sides of things and Kerry Livgren came from a far more progressive side. The first two albums contain material all over the place.  Straight blues, Southern Rock and Symph prog to name a few.  After these they were far more pressured by Don Kirshiner and CBS to create hits.  The funny thing was Carry on My Wayward son was a last minute addition to Left Overature.  So there were far more risks on those first two CD’s and I would suggest if you do get these to get the recently remasterd set from Sony.  They brought in Jeff Glixman who produced most of their stuff. he did a great job on them.  The most progressive songs on those releases are:

From Self titled Kansas: Journey to Mariabronn, Belexis, Apercu and part of Death of Mother Nature Suite.

From Song From America: Title track, Incomudrou and Lamplight Symphony.  The Devil game has some nice proggy riffs in it also.

You do have to keep in mind that like British prog who took from the roots around them Church music and Classical,  Kansas, being American, did the same.  Their roots are the blues and rock.  It would be better for you to compare this band track for track with Boston or Journey rather than Yes or Genesis.  I think  then you could really see the differences.

Oh, if you want to hear something more experimental in the same vein try Early Releases from Kansas by Proto-Kaw.  This is the Kerry Livgren led second version of Kansas which he quit to join the more famous group.  Far more jazzy with King Crimson, Vandergraff Generator, Zappa influences.  If you want any samples of this stuff feel free to PM me. 

 

Bj-1 wrote: King Crimson and Zappa are gods!!

Talk about proving the point...

One could actually argue more successfully that King Crimson, Zappa, Yes, Floyd or indeed any other "BIG" names in the prog world are overrated though. In fact, I'm almost inclined to agree those who do, as long as they're not saying that merely because they don't like them at all.

Personally, I acknowledge the huge impact such names have had in prog, and indeed the wider world of music, but most people must get a little fed up once in a while with the seemingly ceaseless praise and EXPOSURE they get, thus getting in the way of talking about the slightly lesser well known musicmakers. None of them have had a perfect track record, just like any practicioner of any art form. This doesn't mean to say they're not vastly important, and indeed essential, but perhaps some people do actually rate them RATHER TOO HIGHLY.