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Blacksword 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
 Topic: At what age should you know right from wrong?Posted: April 06 2009 at 03:14 |
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At what age should you know, that is wrong to attack another child with a knife?
Should it be a criminal offence to raise children who do these things, or are the parents at the complete mercy of nature, where nurture plays little or no part in how a child turns out? Little darlings.. What sort of correctional program should be given to violent child criminals? How should their parents be 'managed' and should they be allowed to produce more children? |
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 03:31 |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 04:11 |
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Before you are born.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 04:30 |
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So you believe it to be instinctive, rather than learnt? |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 04:52 |
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Indeed, yes.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 05:08 |
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Some years ago I would have disagreed, but more recently I have heard a number of psychologists say that psycopathy and some personality disorders are pre-determined in the womb. I guess this explains violent or psychipathic behaviour in those from good stable backgrounds.
Edited by Blacksword - April 06 2009 at 05:10 |
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Visitor13
Forum Senior Member 
VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 05:17 |
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There was this case of two 5-year-olds killing a 3-year-old some 25 (?) years ago. The kids were sentenced to long-term prison sentences, AFAIK, and I think that was over the top. Five is a bit too early, IMO.
In this case, the two were old enough. To prison with them, no ifs, no buts. |
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JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: September 07 2005 Location: Elysian Fields Status: Offline Points: 10063 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 05:21 |
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6 or 7. The CNS (Central Nervous System, includes the brain and the spinal cord) should be fully developed at that age. Just in time when a child learns how to tie his shoelaces.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 06:49 |
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I agree, but for how long, do you lock up a ten year old. Five years? Ten? Twenty? Life..? The UK is notorious for handing out light sentences to very violent ADULT criminals, so kids get handled with 'kid gloves' so to speak. In the early 90's two 11 year olds murdered a two year old who they abducted from a shopping mall in Liverpool. They were out of custody by 17, and were given new identities, homes and jobs. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 06:56 |
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Gosh, I know about the James Bulger case and didn't realise his killers got a home and jobs upon their release?
Wow... so if I murder somone when I'm young and get released when I'm 18 or so... I get a free home and also a job? That's pretty cushti. Yet extremely wrong and worrying.  |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 07:04 |
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I think one of them ended up living fairly near me. Originally they were going to be sent abroad, to New Zealand, but the NZ government - quite rightly - refused to handle them. Their circusmtances may well have changed now. They may even be dead for all I know, but certainly there was controversy at the time, when the state tried to 're-integrate' them into society. |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 07:09 |
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They need to be intensely evaluated to find if rehabilitation is possible. If not, send them away for life, although I do have to wonder if the death penalty would actually be more humane. As regard to what age to know right from wrong, I'm 44 and no longer certain myself when I learned it, probably in tandem with learning language. I'd have to say there's no fixed age, the sooner the better. But let's face it, there are many adults out there who still haven't managed to learn it to varying degrees.
Edited by Slartibartfast - April 06 2009 at 07:10 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 07:14 |
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Indeed, and when adults who never learnt right from wrong, start raising kids of their own, we have the next generation of trouble to cope with. |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 07:23 |
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How? |
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 1250 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 09:25 |
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I realy don't know how to answer this question. This is a very complicated issue and there are many doubts. Let me share some thoughts :
- I believe (and I might be wrong. We should remember lots of things done in the past like electrical shock is now concidered totally wrong) that most of anyone's personality comes from inside (genes) and society influence on behaviour and not character.
- On the other hand, if someone grows in a home where treated bad how can that one learn what is right ?
- Who do we trust to give license for parenthood ? surely not our governmrnts, right ? They send us to kill the enemy at much older age (and most of us obey, the others tend to skip because of phisical incapability or fear and only rarely refuse for moral reasons).
- Usualy people kill in very unique situations. The chance somebody will kill again is much much lower than the chance that a thief will do it again. So, in terms of the risk to the public killers (and I'm not talking of proffessionals or psychopathics) are less risk (a fact people tend to ignore).
So I guess my answer is - we should check any case to itself and do the right decision for the case. There is no one rule to handle all posibilities.
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omri
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 10:58 |
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Edited by stonebeard - April 06 2009 at 11:03 |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 11:01 |
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They should be sent to a juvenile center for at the minimum 5 years if it is a very strict and hard-ass one, 10-15 years if it is not so much. The 9 year old might get a teensy bit more leniency from me, but that little b*****d would still do at least 4 in an unforgivable center.
Also, their parents should do at least 5 years each in a regular prison. (Oh, and if one of the kids dies, the killers need to do at least 20 years each) Also,
What the hell? They're 9 and 11! Edit: Know what, f**k it. I knew that ripping up someone and stealing from them way wrong by 9. Both kids deserve at the very minimum 10 years in a tough center. Edited by stonebeard - April 06 2009 at 11:03 |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 11:06 |
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A lot of 9 to 11 year olds (and younger) have mobile 'phones now, Stonie and it is indeed a sad reality. I would not let my children (if I had any) have a mobile 'phone until maybe they were 14 to 16 years and even then, that would be if I felt they were mature enough and they could pay for it themselves.
Also, stealing just a small amount of cash and almost worthless items is even sadder still.  However, that's a whole different subject. One of the children is critically ill. That should mean they should be punished even harder. I am not quite sure about the parents being sent down though... it depends on individual circumstances. Some children are just b*****ds, however good the parents are. Edited by James - April 06 2009 at 16:24 |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 11:10 |
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Yeah, it depends, I guess. If it turns out the kids were raised poorly, then the parents should do time as well as the kids, but not as much. These kids shouldn't smell freedom till they're at least 30 though. |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: April 06 2009 at 11:14 |
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There was a recent case where a mother got sent to prison because their child was a persistent truant. So such things do happen (although not on the same level, of course).
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At what age should you know right from wrong?
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Petrovsk Mizinski wrote: