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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2009 at 19:13
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Bach has never done much for me either, even with Glenn Gould. I can appreciate the complexity of the patterns, but with a few exceptions I don't get any emotion. It's the same with Mozart a lot of the time, and when he does write something I find deeply emotional, he tends to pound the theme into the ground.

Did you ever listen to one of Mozart's operas? Not only can you hardly get any more emotional than these, the character portrayal through the music alone in them is unsurpassed, especially in "Don Giovanni".
The problem with the music of Mozart is that many ensembles play his music too "neat", and I totally agree that the emotion gets lost then. Never listen to the Wiener Philhamoniker playing Mozart; they may be one of the best orchestras in the world, but they add too much sugar to his music.


Edited by BaldFriede - June 18 2009 at 19:19


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2009 at 19:24

Any notion that Bach's music is mechanical and dispassionate probably arises from a lack of familiarity with the body of his work and a lack of understanding of the prevailing concepts of his time. Indeed, Bach's is some of the most passionate work in music history. The Toccata and Fugue in D minor was deliberately written to put the fear of God in the hearts of the congregation, the cantatas were meant to convey the majesty of God, and so many of the chorals express the pathos of the suffering of Christ. I think the notion of a "mechanical" quality comes from two aspects of the music. One is that there is a strictness inherent in imitative polyphony and, indeed almost all aspects of Baroque part writing. I think this is indicative of an overal fascination with the notion that the universe is structured and ordered, a concept pervasive in all Baroque art. Bach tried to make his music convey that structure and order. To the Baroque mind order=God, disorder=well, the other guy. I don't think structured necessarily means mechanical. The second aspect that I think may seem mechanical is the fact that the piano had not been invented. The piano allows the musician to play at different volume levels. Bach's keyboard works were really written for harpsichord and pipe organ so the dynamic ranges are limited. In fact, many of Bach's keyboard compositions have no dynamic markings. If you can get around these two aspects I think you'll find that it isn't mechanical at all.

Regarding P.D.Q. Bach (i.e. Peter Schickle), he's a must hear for anyone who wants a good laugh at classical music. One of my favorites is his "Grossest Fugue", a spoof on Beethoven's "Grosse Fugue". I also love his little madrigal "My Bonnie Lass, She Smelleth"



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2009 at 21:58
Originally posted by meptune meptune wrote:

Any notion that Bach's music is mechanical and dispassionate probably arises from a lack of familiarity with the body of his work and a lack of understanding of the prevailing concepts of his time. Indeed, Bach's is some of the most passionate work in music history. The Toccata and Fugue in D minor was deliberately written to put the fear of God in the hearts of the congregation, the cantatas were meant to convey the majesty of God, and so many of the chorals express the pathos of the suffering of Christ. I think the notion of a "mechanical" quality comes from two aspects of the music. One is that there is a strictness inherent in imitative polyphony and, indeed almost all aspects of Baroque part writing. I think this is indicative of an overal fascination with the notion that the universe is structured and ordered, a concept pervasive in all Baroque art. Bach tried to make his music convey that structure and order. To the Baroque mind order=God, disorder=well, the other guy. I don't think structured necessarily means mechanical. The second aspect that I think may seem mechanical is the fact that the piano had not been invented. The piano allows the musician to play at different volume levels. Bach's keyboard works were really written for harpsichord and pipe organ so the dynamic ranges are limited. In fact, many of Bach's keyboard compositions have no dynamic markings. If you can get around these two aspects I think you'll find that it isn't mechanical at all.

This is very true. We tend to forget these days that the original name of the piano was "pianoforte", which means nothing but quietloud. It was named this way because of its dynamic characteristics.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2009 at 05:14
Originally posted by meptune meptune wrote:

Any notion that Bach's music is mechanical and dispassionate probably arises from a lack of familiarity with the body of his work and a lack of understanding of the prevailing concepts of his time. Indeed, Bach's is some of the most passionate work in music history. The Toccata and Fugue in D minor was deliberately written to put the fear of God in the hearts of the congregation, the cantatas were meant to convey the majesty of God, and so many of the chorals express the pathos of the suffering of Christ. I think the notion of a "mechanical" quality comes from two aspects of the music. One is that there is a strictness inherent in imitative polyphony and, indeed almost all aspects of Baroque part writing. I think this is indicative of an overal fascination with the notion that the universe is structured and ordered, a concept pervasive in all Baroque art. Bach tried to make his music convey that structure and order. To the Baroque mind order=God, disorder=well, the other guy. I don't think structured necessarily means mechanical. The second aspect that I think may seem mechanical is the fact that the piano had not been invented. The piano allows the musician to play at different volume levels. Bach's keyboard works were really written for harpsichord and pipe organ so the dynamic ranges are limited. In fact, many of Bach's keyboard compositions have no dynamic markings. If you can get around these two aspects I think you'll find that it isn't mechanical at all.



The third aspect is simply that many performers play Bach mechanically, possibly out of some kind of reverence for the dots on the page - as if the only true interpretation is what's written down - which, as we established earlier in this thread, is far from the truth. 

There are, however, plenty of performers who realise the fluidity and soul in his music without getting overly Romantic about it  - and when you hear it performed "properly", you really know about it - without wishing to wax too lyrically, it can touch your soul in a way you never imagined music could. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2009 at 09:53
My favourite Bach is anything that contains string instruments. Except the vocal works - I keep putting off listening to them for a special occasion when the time is right and I don't have much to do (Easter's a natural choice) and I simply never get round to it, mainly because I end up having much to do anyway or simply forget Dead

I don't think even Bach's genius can ever redeem the church organ in my ears. Too many years of hearing people mistreat it every Sunday, bleh. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2009 at 11:29
You should hear his music played on a Gottfried Silbermann organ - even Mozart acknowledged that this dude had an impressive organ, oh wait... I meant...

Just listen!


It's really worth browsing the various samples here, as all Silbermann's organs had distinct characters, and amazingly varied sounds. 

Silbermann built organs that Bach would have played - if I remember correctly, they actually worked together to develop the instruments at one point, although that could have been someone else... a quick  Google turned this up http://www.baroquemusic.org/silbeng.html - but I don't have time to re-research this area!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2009 at 14:07
My favourite work by Bach is St Matthew Passion.

I am pleasantly surprised by how many progressive music lovers are also huge Bach fans, in some cases (like me) he is the main if not the only classical composer shown in their last.fm statistics.

It's particularly interesting given that Bach was not considered progressive enough when he was composing.

I find a lot of his music moving to the point of being a religious experience. I am sure others know precisely what I mean.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2009 at 00:29
His Cello Suites are probably my favorite work of his. Yo-Yo Ma's performance of them is amazing unsurprisingly.

The first is my personal favorite. Which is nice given it's being used in some credit card commercial I think.

I'll have to listen to it now actually.

EDIT: Henry what are you listening to that makes you hear Bach as cold and emotionless?


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - November 16 2009 at 00:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2009 at 20:24
Right now I'm learning Suite #1 for Bass.
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