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octopus-4 
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
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 Posted: September 15 2010 at 16:18 |
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Two more yes for a tie. Come on...
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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SaltyJon
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 16:18 |
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Yes Can do it!
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
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Points: 1433
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 16:14 |
Maybe I'm being absolutist.
If you strip down the intentions, the relations, the marketing, the production, the surrounding atmosphere and everything else before and after music, then what you are left with, can be compared objectively. Except it is impossible to remove these factors, the personal element, and furthermore impossible to measure quality without including anything remotely describable as a viewpoint. So to even attempt it is apparently futile (for now), but I hope my theory has been understood.
Music is a science(?) And science involves only logic. With the human element removed, I still think Yes would have more success in music, but they wouldn't even be a band then. Just a more complicated idea. Anyway I'm being overly philisophical and getting nowhere.
One day music will be a factual, One day...! It will lose all that it's worth but at least then I'l be right.........
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:40 |
 thehallway wrote:
I wasn't comparing their intentions, rather their actual output, and in a musical sense, regardless of genre.
But in any case, Yes and Genesis are in the same genre, sub-genre, and are two of the most comparable bands in existence. |
I know. I was saying you can't compare the two. In terms of ouput, musical sense whatever.
You can compare Genesis and Yes of course but I don't think it can be in any way objective. They are both full of great musicians and it is this ability that gives them the freedom of expression to produce great records - I just prefer Genesis.
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Help me I'm falling!
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Epignosis
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:38 |
thehallway wrote:
You can't prove it, no.
But maybe some people here would agree that, for example, Mozart was objectively better than say, Hannah Montana, even if that's also unprovable. It's the kind of "better" that even Montana fanatics would recognise: a higher musicality, more talent both at writing and performing, a better understanding of assonance and dissonance...... and loads of other things which remain unmeasurable.
And I'm saying the same thing with Yes and Genesis (although obviously they are much closer together which is why a debate is forming here!). |
You don't know Hannah Montana fans then! 
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
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Points: 1433
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:29 |
I wasn't comparing their intentions, rather their actual output, and in a musical sense, regardless of genre.
But in any case, Yes and Genesis are in the same genre, sub-genre, and are two of the most comparable bands in existence.
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:23 |
thehallway wrote:
You can't prove it, no.
But maybe some people here would agree that, for example, Mozart was objectively better than say, Hannah Montana, even if that's also unprovable. It's the kind of "better" that even Montana fanatics would recognise: a higher musicality, more talent both at writing and performing, a better understanding of assonance and dissonance...... and loads of other things which remain unmeasurable.
And I'm saying the same thing with Yes and Genesis (although obviously they are much closer together which is why a debate is forming here!). |
I would say if it was Mozart's intention to make sing along pop music for young kids to enjoy then he failed miserably and Hannah would be much better than Mozart. They are not comparable.
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Help me I'm falling!
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
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Points: 1433
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:07 |
You can't prove it, no.
But maybe some people here would agree that, for example, Mozart was objectively better than say, Hannah Montana, even if that's also unprovable. It's the kind of "better" that even Montana fanatics would recognise: a higher musicality, more talent both at writing and performing, a better understanding of assonance and dissonance...... and loads of other things which remain unmeasurable.
And I'm saying the same thing with Yes and Genesis (although obviously they are much closer together which is why a debate is forming here!).
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 15:00 |
thehallway wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
thehallway wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I could be wrong here, but from what I recall it seems to usually work out that in a Yes vs Genesis poll, Genesis prevails, while if you compare any specific albums (of comparable ratings) or any specific songs (of comparable importance), Yes prevails. |
Absolutely spot on, unfortunately.
Some people have issues with the personalities of Yessers, or hate Jon Anderson's voice (I've heard "emotionless" used so often, and I really don't understand that accusation).
Some people also use quality of melodies as an excuse for Genesis having worse musicians and less complex music, at the same time putting Yes in the "pretentious" category with ELP and the rest, just because they win in every field.
I'm not saying people who prefer Genesis are lying! Just that they will win because of personal reasons. Maybe they seem like a better band, but the MUSIC is usually inferior, as Epignosis pointed out.
Objectively, Yes have the edge (and Genesis are not even close to the edge....)  . |
So I should decide on other than personal reasons?
Genesis (Or any other band) win because more people prefer their music ? |
By no means was I advocating that people shouldn't vote in a personal way (I did!).
I was just expanding on the speculation that perhaps if there was some way of mesuring attributes such as virtuosity, quality and strength of harmony etc etc, Genesis would win by being a more progressive band.
Genesis WILL win because of personal reasons, and that's okay, but as I said, objectively, Yes have the edge.
And yes, more people (on this site) prefer Genesis, and numbers are the only ingredient for the outcome of a poll. |
There is no way of measuring these atributes as you say. So I could quite easily doctor your post ^
Edited by akamaisondufromage - September 15 2010 at 15:02
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Help me I'm falling!
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Mellotron Storm
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Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:57 |
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I'm not sure how you can prove that "objectively" YES are better than GENESIS. I prefer GENESIS melancholic sound and vocals much more,but that's just my taste in music. I also think YES were brilliant by the way.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
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Points: 1433
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:54 |
akamaisondufromage wrote:
thehallway wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I could be wrong here, but from what I recall it seems to usually work out that in a Yes vs Genesis poll, Genesis prevails, while if you compare any specific albums (of comparable ratings) or any specific songs (of comparable importance), Yes prevails. |
Absolutely spot on, unfortunately.
Some people have issues with the personalities of Yessers, or hate Jon Anderson's voice (I've heard "emotionless" used so often, and I really don't understand that accusation).
Some people also use quality of melodies as an excuse for Genesis having worse musicians and less complex music, at the same time putting Yes in the "pretentious" category with ELP and the rest, just because they win in every field.
I'm not saying people who prefer Genesis are lying! Just that they will win because of personal reasons. Maybe they seem like a better band, but the MUSIC is usually inferior, as Epignosis pointed out.
Objectively, Yes have the edge (and Genesis are not even close to the edge....) . |
So I should decide on other than personal reasons?
Genesis (Or any other band) win because more people prefer their music ? |
By no means was I advocating that people shouldn't vote in a personal way (I did!).
I was just expanding on the speculation that perhaps if there was some way of mesuring attributes such as virtuosity, quality and strength of harmony etc etc, Yes would win by being a more progressive band.
Genesis WILL win because of personal reasons, and that's okay, but as I said, objectively, Yes have the edge.
And yes, more people (on this site) prefer Genesis, and numbers are the only ingredient for the outcome of a poll.
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Catcher10
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:52 |
I think Genesis has a better lineup album by album. Yes has this one gigantic behemoth of an album which most forums/polls conclude is missing something, it feels incomplete. I just can't vote on the strength of one album and really one song.
Anyhow I like both bands very much...but I always find myself listening and enjoying Genesis much more....I think I always will.
Genesis
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
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Points: 6797
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:47 |
thehallway wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I could be wrong here, but from what I recall it seems to usually work out that in a Yes vs Genesis poll, Genesis prevails, while if you compare any specific albums (of comparable ratings) or any specific songs (of comparable importance), Yes prevails. |
Absolutely spot on, unfortunately.
Some people have issues with the personalities of Yessers, or hate Jon Anderson's voice (I've heard "emotionless" used so often, and I really don't understand that accusation).
Some people also use quality of melodies as an excuse for Genesis having worse musicians and less complex music, at the same time putting Yes in the "pretentious" category with ELP and the rest, just because they win in every field.
I'm not saying people who prefer Genesis are lying! Just that they will win because of personal reasons. Maybe they seem like a better band, but the MUSIC is usually inferior, as Epignosis pointed out.
Objectively, Yes have the edge (and Genesis are not even close to the edge....) . |
So I should decide on other than personal reasons?
Genesis (Or any other band) win because more people prefer their music ?
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Help me I'm falling!
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:41 |
Epignosis wrote:
I could be wrong here, but from what I recall it seems to usually work out that in a Yes vs Genesis poll, Genesis prevails, while if you compare any specific albums (of comparable ratings) or any specific songs (of comparable importance), Yes prevails. |
Absolutely spot on, unfortunately.
Some people have issues with the personalities of Yessers, or hate Jon Anderson's voice (I've heard "emotionless" used so often, and I really don't understand that accusation).
Some people also use quality of melodies as an excuse for Genesis having worse musicians and less complex music, at the same time putting Yes in the "pretentious" category with ELP and the rest, just because they win in every field.
I'm not saying people who prefer Genesis are lying! Just that they will win because of personal reasons. Maybe they seem like a better band, but the MUSIC is usually inferior, as Epignosis pointed out.
Objectively, Yes have the edge (and Genesis are not even close to the edge....) .
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TrevRockOne
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Joined: May 17 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 112
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:30 |
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To risk sounding like a sore whiney fanboy: does anyone else think that Genesis being the only band to appear in the topic title on the homepage may have skewed the results in their favor a bit. Although I love both bands, Yes is transcendent.
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crimhead
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:29 |
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As long as it is not Philesis era Genesis it gets my vote.
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mohaveman
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:13 |
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Yes cuz of poppy Genesis era
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Roland113
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 12:25 |
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This was an easy vote for me as Genesis has long been my favorite bands while Yes is one of those bands that you'd think I'd like, but time after time, they do little for me.
I recently found a special remastered edition of "Close to the Edge" at a used CD shop for five bucks. I thought, why not, I'll give it one more shot. I had listened to my Dad's original pressing many times in an attempt to 'get it' but failed. So, I bought the remaster and listened to it with an open mind. The next day I gave it to my Dad who was more than pleased to get the new version.
Furthermore, Genesis has at least three of my top ten favorite albums, possibly four. "A Trick of the Tail" has been my favorite album for years. "Selling England," and "The Lamb" are both in my top ten and a recent surge by "Wind and Wuthering" has it pushing against the top ten.
As I said, my vote easily goes to Genesis.
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-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------
I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 11:47 |
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Genesis for The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Epignosis
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Posted: September 15 2010 at 11:30 |
lazland wrote:
Blimey, a really tight one
Yes were my introduction to prog. Genesis followed very shortly behind. Both are exceptional bands.
Oh God, this is difficult
Okay, I'll look at the number of stinkers in the catalogue.
For Genesis, the second side of Genesis was appalling. That's about it, really.
For Yes, there was Open Your Eyes, Drama (sorry), and a lot of Union to shy away from.
On that basis, Genesis just about gets my vote.
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That's a rather odd way to decide. After all, Yes has 18 studio albums while Genesis only has 15. Ah well, too late to convince you to change your mind now!
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Battle of the Prog Bands R3D1: Genesis vs. Yes
