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Well if you're not making loans for profit, it's not different than charity.
I'm just talking in theory, of course it makes profit. It has too, otherwise would it continue to exist?
It's because it's loaning such small amounts that people can treat it like charity, and the profit motive gets obscured. If I loan out $20 to someone in Bangladesh and never see that money back, I just view it as charity and write it off.
If someone needs $100,000 you can be damn sure their credit risk will be assiduously scrutinized by any possible lender.
Yes, but no loan of that amount, or close to it, would ever be made.
Please do look into it Pat, as will I (I'm sure you'll do a better job though). I really like this idea on paper but seems a bit "too good to be true"
In my mind it reduces to charity, despite living in the credit paradigm, because to me the risk aversion of the lenders is zero - unless you're somewhat naive, you have to know going in to something like Kiva that you will be operating at a loss. So the only incentive remaining is being charitable.
Well, I have no problem with that. Do you? In fact aren't you guys about personal charity?
And if it works, it works.
No doubt, research needs to be done and serious thought given before we start hacking the welfare state!
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:19
JJLehto wrote:
Padraic wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Padraic wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Well if you're not making loans for profit, it's not different than charity.
I'm just talking in theory, of course it makes profit. It has too, otherwise would it continue to exist?
It's because it's loaning such small amounts that people can treat it like charity, and the profit motive gets obscured. If I loan out $20 to someone in Bangladesh and never see that money back, I just view it as charity and write it off.
If someone needs $100,000 you can be damn sure their credit risk will be assiduously scrutinized by any possible lender.
Yes, but no loan of that amount, or close to it, would ever be made.
Please do look into it Pat, as will I (I'm sure you'll do a better job though). I really like this idea on paper but seems a bit "too good to be true"
In my mind it reduces to charity, despite living in the credit paradigm, because to me the risk aversion of the lenders is zero - unless you're somewhat naive, you have to know going in to something like Kiva that you will be operating at a loss. So the only incentive remaining is being charitable.
Well, I have no problem with that. Do you?
Of course not, why would I? People can (or should) do whatever they want with their money.
Aw that's cute...2 kids just rang asking if I'd like the front of the house shoveled.
I had to ask (I know I'm a dick) if they are charging
*giggles* yeah
Sorry kids. I'll do it myself for free Have to admire their initiative though! One day they can make a small business here in town, financed by micro loans.
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:40
I go do a few things and all of a sudden I'm three pages behind.
Responses to what I scanned over:
- Posted that article by John Stossel 4 pages ago about what it feels like to be a libertarian. Don't know if that's what started the line of discussion 3 pages back but it's still there if anyone wants to loop back and read it.
- To JJ's "grey area" thing: Life's grey area and government are natural enemies. Government seeks to set and enforce a set of rigid rules for everyone to follow, which can't be done without completely ignoring all of life's grey areas. To believe that a central power could solve any percieved problem is to believe that problem is a completely black and white issue without grey areas.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:41
JJLehto wrote:
Aw that's cute...2 kids just rang asking if I'd like the front of the house shoveled.
I had to ask (I know I'm a dick) if they are charging
*giggles* yeah
Sorry kids. I'll do it myself for free Have to admire their initiative though! One day they can make a small business here in town, financed by micro loans.
Good to see none believes there should be a centralized house-shoveling agency...
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:44
^Mom, Stoessel's article is quite short, too short. But I can see what he says, especially since I've been starting to adopt the crazy style when discussing politics with people around me.
Though with my family, all from ecuador of course, is not that difficult to point out how horrible an all-powerful government can be, specially with the current socialist one. I usually end up on top
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:44
So everybody, Pat PMed me and he beat the school bus ticket! YEAH F**K THE MAN! Why did they acquit you?
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The idea of Ron Paul as President terrifies me, but I will be sad when he's no longer a Rep, his harassment of the mainstream is valuable.
Speaking of Ron Paul, do you think he'll run again? I doubt he'll bother, since I don't see him doing much better than he did last time, but lost causes haven't seemed to dissuade him in the past. I'd certainly prefer him over Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin or some sh*t. I really enjoyed how in '08 the internet was crazy for Ron Paul and then when it was clear he could never win it immediately switched to being crazy for Obama. Of course, my favorite thing about '08 was that Stormfront had giant Ron Paul banners on all their pages (obviously not authorized by Ron Paul himself) before he got knocked out of the primary. Oh, you silly white supremacists...
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
(I told my friends for three years that I believe in a Flat Earth and argued vehemently to support it, so there is a precedent for such behavior)
You need to troll your Calculus classes with this. Bonus points if you can formulate it in a way that involves math they haven't learned yet.
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:50
Henry Plainview wrote:
So everybody, Pat PMed me and he beat the school bus ticket! YEAH F**K THE MAN! Why did they acquit you?
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The idea of Ron Paul as President terrifies me, but I will be sad when he's no longer a Rep, his harassment of the mainstream is valuable.
Speaking of Ron Paul, do you think he'll run again? I doubt he'll bother, since I don't see him doing much better than he did last time, but lost causes haven't seemed to dissuade him in the past. I'd certainly prefer him over Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin or some sh*t. I really enjoyed how in '08 the internet was crazy for Ron Paul and then when it was clear he could never win it immediately switched to being crazy for Obama. Of course, my favorite thing about '08 was that Stormfront had giant Ron Paul banners on all their pages (obviously not authorized by Ron Paul himself) before he got knocked out of the primary. Oh, you silly white supremacists...
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
(I told my friends for three years that I believe in a Flat Earth and argued vehemently to support it, so there is a precedent for such behavior)
You need to troll your Calculus classes with this. Bonus points if you can formulate it in a way that involves math they haven't learned yet.
They acquitted me because my friend did a very good job examining the bus driver. I also had signed affidavits verifying that I was sleeping at the time of the ticket and that I didn't report to work until my normal time on that day (3 hours after the ticket was issued).
I'm not sure why Ron as president would terrify anyone. I don't think he'll run again. He got his message out there with his first campaign. A further one would just be wasting his supporter's money, and he has said he has no interest in doing that without a real chance at winning.
I have some nice math to support my flat earth theory.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: November 02 2010
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 101
Posted: January 26 2011 at 13:25
The T wrote:
Reading Hayek, I quite like his view... A small state that helps the market by setting rules and a structural framework (laws, infrastructure, courts, defense of rights); he still believes in public ownership of roads and police and I'm quite with him on this... for now. Anarcho-capitalism is just a tad too far for me, as I believe that, even in that situation, people will again join together and decide that a centralized police force and law system works better, as do public roads.
I'm curious about your view on this, because I consider myself a minarchist. Would you expect the state in question to operate via donations or through compulsory taxation?
I would prefer donations, but wonder at times if that's unrealistic.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: January 26 2011 at 13:36
Hanyou wrote:
The T wrote:
Reading Hayek, I quite like his view... A small state that helps the market by setting rules and a structural framework (laws, infrastructure, courts, defense of rights); he still believes in public ownership of roads and police and I'm quite with him on this... for now. Anarcho-capitalism is just a tad too far for me, as I believe that, even in that situation, people will again join together and decide that a centralized police force and law system works better, as do public roads.
I'm curious about your view on this, because I consider myself a minarchist. Would you expect the state in question to operate via donations or through compulsory taxation?
I would prefer donations, but wonder at times if that's unrealistic.
I'm still chained to the idea of some minimum taxation. I still find it unlikely that things like roads and police force and courts could survive in a donation-based system. Maybe the police, which most people would agree it's in their best interest to maintain... But laws and courts? Unless you need them, some people really believe they are not there... And I wouldn't like just one portion of people donating for the justice system (and its enforcers) since it could create the idea of preference.
A freer way of taxation? Difficult to think of one. Robert has a good idea. It's still taking money you didn't freely decide to get rid of, but you know you're paying only when you want.
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Padraic wrote:
I usually end up on top 
